Next Xbox Online only. No Used Games....again.

[Atarifever]

Hey look, two "stories" that link to the same source. I'll believe it when I see it.

For sure.

 

I assume I'm not the only one who saw this:

http://x-surface.tumblr.com/

 

 

If that doesn't make you question the importance of rumours like this, I don't know what will.

[cimerians]

Hey look, two "stories" that link to the same source. I'll believe it when I see it.

 

Yeah I don't really beleive it either but like I mentioned it wouldn't surprise me.

 

I agree with other people said though...they can go ahead and do it and I save 400 bucks (twice).

[onlysublime]

I'm not saying they are perfect, but your argument is based on a false premise. Just because a business is a busniness does not mean it has to be exactly the same as another business, particularly if there is something very different about the structure of that company. A small local coffee shop is hardly going to be as anti-customer as a Starbucks. They are in business, but in a much different way.

 

If you want to see what sort of company can result from that difference, check out the blog Valve has for their economist. yeah, they fund scholarly research into their own company and then put the results out for public consumption.

 

http://blogs.valveso...orporate-world/

 

I know your belief is that "liking" one company over another is naive. However, I believe it is naive not to see the obvious differences between a publically owned corporation, a private company, and local entrpeneurs. All three types of business are, by their nature, able to behave differently. Yeah, a local business CAN be evil, but it doesn't have to be. A large, privately held company CAN be evil, but it doesn't absolutely have to be. A corporation is evil and anti-consumer by design. It eventually gets there every time.

 

wow, someone is really drinking the steam kool-aid... O_o

 

you remind me of when I was 7 and Atari could do no wrong...

[Atarifever]

That's interesting because you remind.me of me at 7. Someone said something I didn't understand and I would just ignore it, make a weird face, and talk about kool aid. Exactly like when I was 7. Wow.

So we're clear, I haven't once said they can do no wrong. I have said a private company can be different than a publically traded one and that always online DRM sucks. Sorry if neither of those things is black and white enough thinking for you.

 

 

wow, someone is really drinking the steam kool-aid... O_o

 

you remind me of when I was 7 and Atari could do no wrong...

[cimerians]

Comeon onlysublime! we must convert thee....

 

Got a windows 7 box and a good graphics card?

 

[onlysublime]

I already have a nice quad-core system with Windows 8 and Steam.

[Atarifever]

Now you guys have lost me. Either of the computers you are talking about would literally melt both of mine if they so much as passed by them. No word of a lie, the majority of my time playing games on Steam is on an Acer Aspire one netbook running XP.

 

There was a Jimqisition one time where he pointed out that the beautiful irony of PC gaming is that the best games on there often require only the most laughable hardware. I tend to agree.

[BydoEmpire]

There was a Jimqisition one time where he pointed out that the beautiful irony of PC gaming is that the best games on there often require only the most laughable hardware. I tend to agree.

i.e.: pretty much everything on GOG.com!

[GadgetUK]

I will also NOT be purchasing one if they do what the media are reporting. I am all in favour of copy protection to protect their interests and peoples jobs etc, but I draw the line at not being able to re-sell what i've finished playing and paid for, and not having the option to buy old games others have finished. This DRM thing is getting out of hand... The way they want it is for us to play on their consoles / computers over a dumb terminal, never even owning the hardware - that's ultimately what they want.

[SoulBlazer]

I think it's too harsh and unfair to say that all publicaly traded companies are evil, but beyond that I think Atarifever said.

[GKC]

Makes me wonder if the folks at Microsoft and Sony are closet Nintendo fanboys.

[bennybingo]

But if they manage to do this...it will still be very cool indeed!!!!

 

 

Makes me a bit dizzy, but it is freakin amazing technology (if it's real)!

[Atarifever]

i.e.: pretty much everything on GOG.com![/font][/color]

Much of it, yeah. I wonder how many console centric people are aware that they have a classic gaming system in their house right now, capable of playing decades worth of old games they have never played, that can be had legally, DRM free, and cheaply right this very second?

[+wood_jl]

Sounds like the rumblings of another "PC vs. Console" thread. I love PCs, have several, and play MAME-type stuff on them. I'm sure my videocard is wuss, but it was cheap. If gaming PC rigs were cheap and had more longevity (or more like long-term viability like a 7 year-old 360) then I'd be more interested. I did it in the 90s. But when I can get a console that plays 1080p from the sofa for the price of a video card alone (that's going to obsolete in 6 mos), I just can't seem to muster the interest in a high-end gaming rig, even though I think they're super-cool. If consoles go completely DRM, I'll think more of it. But don't PC games need "activation" (DRM, whatever) anyway?

[onlysublime]

yeah, people make it out like DRM is this new thing. PCs have always had the most DRM of anything.

[Lendorien]

http://whatculture.c...ble-idea.php/10

 

This article makes a valid point I think. There's a fallacy in the supposition that used game sale dollars would translate over to new game sales if used games didn't exist.

 

If Consoles kill sales of used games, game sales in general could take a big hit. A lot of gamers trade in games to be able to afford the next big title. If every game they buy is now theirs forever, that's a lot less money to go around to the new titles that come out. I suspect that many gamers will not increase their spending on games just because used games are gone. They'll become more discerning about the games they DO buy because well, just because used games are gone doesn't mean we'll have any more money to spend on gaming than we did before. And in fact a lot of gamers would have LESS money to spend than they did before because their gaming budget was supplemented by used game trade ins.

 

I don't think used games hurt the developers as much as they think they do. I buy maybe 5 or 6 new games a year. If I can't get my games used any more, the money spent probably won't change much because I won't be buying games when they first come out any more. I'll wait for reviews and buy them after a couple price cuts to maximize the value for my money. If I was willing to wait to buy my games at a good price used, I'm willing to wait to buy the game when it's been out 2 years and the price is 1/6th of the original price. So the publishers don't get any more money out of me, they actually get less dollars per publisher because I'm going to be more discerning and careful about what I spend it on. I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one.

 

As an aside, the lack of used games could also have a negative effect in that developers will then only release games they KNOW will sell (Call of Duty: Rehash #63). You'll have less quirky experimental stuff, or games that try new things because the stakes will be so much higher. A bad game or a game that simply doesn't catch people's interest will fail even more spectacularly than ever before because gamers will be a lot more picky about what they spend 60 dollars on. So developers will play it safe.

 

Can you imagine if a game like Mass Effect 3 had been released on that model? The bad press about the ending would have KILLED it. As it was, a lot of people bought it because they knew (even if it wasn't a conscious thought) they could trade it in if it really sucked that bad. So the used game market actually might have helped the initial sales of the game.

 

As for the online thing:

 

I think it's too early to do the always online thing. Frankly, while internet usage is becoming more ubiquitous, not everyone in the US has the ability to have their console always online. And there are a good number of people (parents perhaps) who may not WANT their console online for various reasons. Added to that, these consoles will be sold all over the world. A lot of countries lack the reliable internet service Americans/Europeans have. This is especially true in developing countries like India, Brazil, etc.

 

I think the online only idea is just a bit ahead of it's time and frankly while some games may require it, I don't think MS will do it across the board in the upcoming generation because they would have too much to lose in those developing markets.

Edited February 8, 2013 by Lendorien

[Atarifever]

PCs have always had the most DRM of anything.

PCs used to have the most DRM. Used to.

[Atarifever]

Sounds like the rumblings of another "PC vs. Console" thread. I love PCs, have several, and play MAME-type stuff on them. I'm sure my videocard is wuss, but it was cheap. If gaming PC rigs were cheap and had more longevity (or more like long-term viability like a 7 year-old 360) then I'd be more interested. I did it in the 90s. But when I can get a console that plays 1080p from the sofa for the price of a video card alone (that's going to obsolete in 6 mos), I just can't seem to muster the interest in a high-end gaming rig, even though I think they're super-cool. If consoles go completely DRM, I'll think more of it. But don't PC games need "activation" (DRM, whatever) anyway?

I guess this depends on what you want to play. As I said, I do most of my PC gaming on a Netbook, and the rest on a Dell laptop from Wal-Mart (plays Team Fortress 2 great!). If you like things like Call of Duty then I guess you'll have to stay console for now. Course, why anyone is playing COD when TF2 exists, runs on anything, and is free is beyond me. However, about 98% of the worthwhile PC games available right now don't need high end hardware (between the GoG and indie scenes I think I am actually under-estimating there). The advantage of the PC is no longer primarily the graphics card. It is the selection, niches serviced, control options, user generated content, and pricing. Way, way, way down that list is the fact that for a tiny, tiny percentage of the games you can make the graphics slightly better than on a current console if you want to spend money to do it. Doesn't appeal to me, so I don't bother with that.

[Vic George 2K3]

When the new systems and their games will someday become all but a memory, everything will be used. A great job those companies will do in destroying future video game history.

[GadgetUK]

I think price is part of the issue as well. I often buy PC games on pre-order for around £20.00, yet XBOX 360 games tend to be £35+ even on pre-order, and with MS gold subscription as well I tend to think that XBOX owners get screwed.... Don't get me started about the fact I am on my 5th XBOX (all from new) since 2006, and this one has just been repaired by MS, so when it RROD again it will be number 6... Who wants to trust Microsofts next model interms of thermo dyamics when they clearly couldnt even resolve the problem on the 360 even after 3 board revisions.

[Cobra Kai]

What's really amazing is how the consumer has become the enemy in the video game industry. The corporate giants are just getting more open about how much disdain they have for us. It used to be they needed our business, now they act like they we can't live without them.

[Mendon]

Maybe we will know on Feb. 20th when Sony gives their PS4 presentation. In the end, I can't imagine either Sony or MS deciding to go with a system that doesn't play used games unless the other company does also.... sort of the "safety in numbers" reasoning.

 

So far, one thing about the Wii U surprises me: not one game has come packed with an Online Pass. I would have thought at least EA would have them.

[GadgetUK]

What's really amazing is how the consumer has become the enemy in the video game industry. The corporate giants are just getting more open about how much disdain they have for us. It used to be they needed our business, now they act like they we can't live without them.

 

Thats an excellent observation! Has anyone here tried to complain to Microsoft? You can't, as they have NO complaints process or dept. they simply give you the legal dept. postal address.

 

Battlefield 3 is another example if how publishers dont care either (god I hate EA...)

 

You get verbal and text abuse in BF3 on live if you are a good player and no one does anything about it. Now I find since they 'rent servers' that the balance goes out of the window, with admins kicking because you are winning, or because you use a weapon they dont like etc. totally ruins the experience, and all because they just want more money with no thought about the customer.

 

Ive joined games where several weapons are banned and only admins can use choppers, and they dont kick you, they kill you from menu several times until you leave... DICE were fine until the EA monster bought them. I think we might be heading for a revolution of sorts as consumer spending patterns change. Ive already vito'd the Wii U, Neo Geo X, and the next XBOX and PlayStation.

Edited February 8, 2013 by GadgetUK

[Phredreeke]

But when I can get a console that plays 1080p from the sofa for the price of a video card alone (that's going to obsolete in 6 mos), I just can't seem to muster the interest in a high-end gaming rig, even though I think they're super-cool.

 

Both 360 and PS3 can output 1080p BUT 99% of games render in 720p or lower resolution. (for example, Black Ops 2 renders in 880x720 resolution)

[BydoEmpire]

I think it's too early to do the always online thing. Frankly, while internet usage is becoming more ubiquitous, not everyone in the US has the ability to have their console always online.

You know, that was my first reaction, too, but I have to believe MS would have done a ton of market research on this before making such a decision. We'll see...