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Eat Dem Bananaz


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#1 atari2600land OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2013 2:10 AM

So I've decided to go back to the very first thing I programmed 7 years ago in 2006 and try to improve on it. It's a lot like Fast Food but I'm going to make some changes to the game play. I've made the munching mouth out of the missiles and the ball so I could have two bananas on the screen at the same time. I can't use the multisprite kernel because then I wouldn't have a asymetrical playfield which I'm planning to make the title screen with. So I'm wondering why the second half of the playfield blocks are reversed. Must be because of something I did with the default.inc file, but that didn't happen in Explosive Diarrhea. Anyway, I hope to have this fit in 2k again (I have 766 bytes left!) Some things I'm going to include are:
- have bananas fall at different speeds (for example, one banana could fall faster than the other one.)
- change the background
Anyway, how am I doing?

Attached Files


Edited by atari2600land, Sat Feb 9, 2013 2:12 AM.


#2 Random Terrain ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2013 7:35 AM

What's wrong with 4k or 8k?

#3 Cybearg OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2013 8:40 AM

What's wrong with 4k or 8k?

It feels good to make it work in the smallest ROM possible. At least for me it does.

#4 atari2600land OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2013 4:45 PM

It feels good to make it work in the smallest ROM possible. At least for me it does.

Yes, this is why I want it in a 2k ROM.

#5 Random Terrain ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2013 5:12 PM

Yes, this is why I want it in a 2k ROM.


Like I've said before, why not try for 1k or half a k? Then you won't have to draw any sprites. You could just use nothing but rectangles. If you can get it down small enough to maybe half of half a k, you could make a game called Sim Brick where players just stare at a rectangle and imagine that it's a brick. They could also imagine all of the things they could do with the brick if the game had more kilobytes.

#6 bennybingo OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2013 5:19 PM

I gave up after 1000 points....I know you are planning to add things to the gameplay, so this is not to be taken as a slight in any way. This game has the potential to be very fun, but it definitely needs something more...my suggestions:
  • Limit of lives to 3 or 5
  • graduated increase of speed at various stages (50, 100, 150, 200, etc)
  • added random items...possibly moving faster/worth more points.
Those are just a few ideas. Otherwise, it looks great so far! Best of luck finishing it!!!

Screen Shot 2013-02-09 at 6.12.16 PM.png

#7 Cybearg OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2013 8:02 PM

Like I've said before, why not try for 1k or half a k? Then you won't have to draw any sprites. You could just use nothing but rectangles. If you can get it down small enough to maybe half of half a k, you could make a game called Sim Brick where players just stare at a rectangle and imagine that it's a brick. They could also imagine all of the things they could do with the brick if the game had more kilobytes.

Well, by that logic, why develop for a long-past console like the 2600 at all when you could develop for a modern system? It's all about the challenge of working within limited resources, and that's a big part of the fun in developing for retro consoles.

#8 Cebus Capucinis OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2013 8:05 PM

Like I've said before, why not try for 1k or half a k? Then you won't have to draw any sprites. You could just use nothing but rectangles. If you can get it down small enough to maybe half of half a k, you could make a game called Sim Brick where players just stare at a rectangle and imagine that it's a brick. They could also imagine all of the things they could do with the brick if the game had more kilobytes.


I'M IN FOR THREE CIB PRE-ORDERS! SIM BRICK WILL REVOLUTIONIZE HOMEBR3WZ!!11!!!

#9 Random Terrain ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2013 8:12 PM

Well, by that logic, why develop for a long-past console like the 2600 at all when you could develop for a modern system? It's all about the challenge of working within limited resources, and that's a big part of the fun and challenge for developing for retro consoles.


That's already answered in the FAQ:

Why do people make Atari 2600 games these days?


There seems to be three main reasons why people make Atari 2600 games:

  • They want to do something hard to challenge themselves, so they use assembly language.
  • They're doing it for school.
  • They had an Atari 2600 as a kid and always wanted to make their own Atari 2600 games because there's something special and magical about the graphics and sound effects that other consoles don't have.
The third type of person will usually want and need every tool, trick, and shortcut they can get. That's why they use batari Basic, Visual batari Basic, and various kernels, minikernels, modules and enhancements.


It's OK if you want to challenge yourself, but the main focus should be on the players. I'm sure that programmers like David Crane could have made half k games to challenge themselves, but they tried to make games that were fun and as pretty to look at as possible.


Related quotes:

Even though I enjoyed the challenge of programming, ultimately the motivation was the fans, the gamers themselves. I kept asking myself, "Is that guy enjoying the game?" In those early days we got fan mail all the time.
~Bob Whitehead (adapted)


Too many games are made for the challenge of it, without seeming to care that much about players. Even though players are important, their reactions should only be taken as feedback you can use to make better games. Player comments shouldn't feed your ego or damage your self-esteem.
~Duane Alan Hahn



#10 bennybingo OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2013 8:26 PM

I like turtles!



turtles like bananas!

tumblr_ls6d0c5h4f1qmx8g0o1_400.jpg

Bananas make nice headwear!

banana-mouth.jpg

there's a pattern forming here....not sure what that might be, but there's a pattern for sure! :grin:

#11 Cybearg OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2013 8:57 PM

not sure what that might be, but there's a pattern for sure! :grin:


I think the pattern is that everyone has spammed this poor guy's thread with zero feedback.

I'll be back with some feedback after I give it a try.

#12 atari2600land OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2013 9:00 PM

Now I'm sorry I even started this. I guess if it was a lousy idea 7 years ago, it's lousy still today...

#13 Cybearg OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2013 9:23 PM

Not sure if this is relevant to your original question, but the second and fourth bytes are apparently reversed as this says.

I understand your desire for a title screen, but good gameplay trumps a title screen. It's not that the idea is bad, it's just that it isn't fully realized. Obviously the mouth catching the bananas isn't enough because there's no challege to it. Maybe if different kinds of food (multiple at a type, so multisprite may be necessary), some of which are undesirable, so the player has to deal with multiple foods falling down at different locations, thinking quickly to eat the right ones and avoid the wrong ones, etc. So, no, it's not a lousy idea, it just needs to be expanded upon.

There's nothing wrong with a simple game. It's all about whether or not the gameplay can be expanded to have increasing challenge, and that's what makes things fun or not, at least in my opinion.

In response to RT, I think that you can start making a game for any reason, challenge or "for the players" or not. Whether it will work or not is consciousness of scope, gameplay, and overall elegance in design (that is, all the parts, the visuals, mechanics, etc. work together to create a cohesive, complimentary experience). If someone like myself or Atari2600Land want to do things in limited space for the challenge, there's nothing wrong at that, so long as that size is sufficient to create a quality product. Bigger isn't necessarily better.

#14 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2013 9:23 PM

Now I'm sorry I even started this. I guess if it was a lousy idea 7 years ago, it's lousy still today...


Don't think that. Your gameplay is more of a proto-Fast Food. Fast Food is an awesome game!

Especially don't get discouraged by feedback. My problem is LACK of feedback. No feedback means only the things you catch get dealt with. Also, as a developer, our particular world view restricts how much of the game we perceive.

Your going to get stupid, plain wrong, useless feedback as well as awesome suggestions. Trouble is, sometimes what we take as trolling junk can be great advice in disguise. Take it all in. Try to see it from someone else's viewpoint - THEN decide to implement or discard.

#15 Random Terrain ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2013 9:51 PM

In response to RT, I think that you can start making a game for any reason, challenge or "for the players" or not. Whether it will work or not is consciousness of scope, gameplay, and overall elegance in design (that is, all the parts, the visuals, mechanics, etc. work together to create a cohesive, complimentary experience). If someone like myself or Atari2600Land want to do things in limited space for the challenge, there's nothing wrong at that, so long as that size is sufficient to create a quality product. Bigger isn't necessarily better.


Unless a programmer is very good or knows how to use Assembly Language, it's hard to make a quality product that is only 2k. Most bB users shooting for 2k will usually end up slapping together a barely adequate product that makes players feel like the programmer gave them the middle finger. Forget 2k, it's extremely difficult for most bB users to make a quality product that fits in only 4k.




Especially don't get discouraged by feedback.


Yeah, player comments shouldn't feed your ego or damage your self-esteem.

#16 bennybingo OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2013 10:07 PM

Now I'm sorry I even started this. I guess if it was a lousy idea 7 years ago, it's lousy still today...


See post #6. I thought I provided some constructive feedback for your game. It has potential for sure.

....as for post #10...that's just me being silly. Par for the course with me! What can I say...I am a huge fan of the good old-fashioned non-sequitur! :grin:

#17 Cybearg OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2013 10:22 PM

Could you use missile 0, missile 1, and the ball to create more sprites that could be used without needing the multisprite kernel?

#18 atari2600land OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:35 AM

OK, I tinkered with the game a little more. After 25 bananas, 2 start to come down. Things to do:
- add sfx.
- introduce bad lemon (do not eat), which leads to:
- make life system.

The game has no lives right now, so if you miss a banana, they stop falling.

Attached Files



#19 Cybearg OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:45 AM

Lives should at least be simple. Use the super-convenient built-in lives variable!

If you don't want all that complex stuff that is discussed in that link, you can simply use lives as a free variable. For instance, somewhere at the beginning of your game:
lives = 3

and then when you eat a lemon:

lives = lives - 1

and somewhere else:

if lives = 0 then goto Game_Over

EDIT: Also, you may be aware, but if you miss a banana, they don't actually stop falling. It just falls down until it returns to the top of the screen and falls again from the same x location.

#20 Atarius Maximus OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:34 PM

Unless a programmer is very good or knows how to use Assembly Language, it's hard to make a quality product that is only 2k. Most bB users shooting for 2k will usually end up slapping together a barely adequate product that makes players feel like the programmer gave them the middle finger. Forget 2k, it's extremely difficult for most bB users to make a quality product that fits in only 4k.

That's pretty much how I've always felt about 2k games in bB, you're so severely limited in ROM space that producing a really good quality game is nearly impossible. I can appreciate it from the standpoint of being a technical challenge as long as you temper that with the reality of what the end product is going to be. With that said, I think I may give it a shot over the next few days and see what I can come up with (maybe I just need to prove myself wrong). Either way, keep it up atari2600land, as long as you're having fun just roll with it. :)

#21 atari2600land OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:40 PM

OK, this version is a lot tougher...and I haven't even put the lemons in yet. Tell me what you think. Also, I know I need to redesign the banana, so if any of you can help me with that, that would be cool.

Attached Files



#22 Cybearg OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:17 PM

How about these?


 player0:
 %00011100
 %01111110
 %01000011
 %10000000
end


 player1:
 %00011100
 %01111110
 %01000011
 %10000000
end


#23 Brian O OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:06 PM

I like how it's going so far. Reminds me of Kaboom. Can the actual playfield be centered?

-B

#24 atari2600land OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:02 PM

I like how it's going so far. Reminds me of Kaboom. Can the actual playfield be centered?

Thanks. Unfortunately, the setup I'm using causes weird things to happen if I try to center it. See my blog entry for Feb. 28 for more info.

I like the bananas Cybearg made. I'm going to put them in the game.

#25 atari2600land OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:58 PM

I figured out why the playfield was acting weird: I was using CTRLPF=$20 and CTRLPF=$00 when I SHOULD have been using CTRLPF=$21 and CTRLPF=$01. I also had to get rid of pfcolors since that stupid rule only allows ONE set of pfcolors and not two, which is very annoying when you want the b/w-color switch to work!

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