What about porting arcade games released after the crash?

[opcode]

How do you guys feel about the idea of porting some slightly more modern arcade games, such as:

 

 

Commando

1942

1943

Vigilante

Rygar

Tiger Heli

Slap Fighter

Trojan

Blak Tiger

Ikari

Green Beret

Jail Break

Gun Smoke

Legendary Wings

Tokio

Kiki kaikai

Chuka taisen

 

Just to list a few....

 

Eduardo

[Pixelboy]

I can only speak for myself here, but honestly, that's not really an interesting proposition for me. There are too many good arcade games from the late 70s and early 80s that haven't been ported to the ColecoVision yet, but deserve to get ported.

 

I'll take Arabian, Bag Man, Galaga, Kangaroo, Kung-Fu Master, Pengo, Pole Position, Vanguard or Wizard of Wor over any of the arcade games listed above any day of the week.

[sqoon]

Mappy, Bosconian and Make Trax pre-crash are must haves.

 

1942, 1943, Legendary Wings, Kickle Kubicle, Rygar, Sqoon, and Kid Icarus post-crash would be excellent as well.

[jblenkle]

I would like to see Rygar...I always enjoyed playing it on my NES....I would also like to see Astro Chase. Didn't Parker Bros. originally plan it for the CV? I had never played it before the current Atari 5200 HSC, but I'm finding it very enjoyable.

 

How do you guys feel about the idea of porting some slightly more modern arcade games, such as:

 

 

Commando

1942

1943

Vigilante

Rygar

Tiger Heli

Slap Fighter

Trojan

Blak Tiger

Ikari

Green Beret

Jail Break

Gun Smoke

Legendary Wings

Tokio

Kiki kaikai

Chuka taisen

 

Just to list a few....

 

Eduardo

Edited February 19, 2013 by jblenkle

[NIAD]

I am very much in agreement with Luc concerning the post-crash line-up of games that are listed. While it would be amazing to see our little old CVs playing these "more modern" games with the aid of the SGM, for some reason it just doesn't appeal to me as much. I could easily pickup an NES, SMS, Genesis or Super NES along with those games for dirt cheap and play them immediately instead of having to wait for a year, two or three depending on your current schedule of games that you want to develop.

 

What I would love to see is a concerted effort to focus on finisihing off the vaporware titles like Wild Western, Skiing, Wizard of Wor as well as the possibility of focusing on games that planned to be developed or in-development when Coleco pulled the plug... I have a rather lengthy list in my Collectors Rarity List. I would also love to see some, if not all, of the other ADAM Super Games ported to CV format and made available like PixelBoy did with Dragon's Lair and Zaxxon. As can be seen by the swift sales on these two titles, there is a huge interest in these ADAM only titles being converted to CV format because...

 

- some were never available on the CV

- some offer more levels and features

- they were all made by Coleco which is a huge draw when considering buying them... can't underestimate this point in the least

 

I would even go so far as to say that a CV conversion of the "Donkey Kong Junior - 5 screen version" Super Game would be another huge seller and fan favorite even though you plan to make an arcade perfect port of DK Jr. in the future and these two versions would not adversely affect each other's sales.

 

We also have to remember that Ax really wants the Buck Rogers Super Game converted to CV format and god forbid this never happens, someone might find a "Box of Crap" on their door step one day!

 

In the end, it all boils down to what you want to dedicate your time to and you know we'll all be lined up and ready to buy when it becomes available to purchase. I'm just hoping for Penguin Adventure along with some of the games I previously mentioned.

[opcode]

Even though I can enjoy both pre and post crash games, there is a timeless quality to pre-crash stuff that post crash just cannot beat. And generally speaking pre-crash just aged better IMHO.

That said, the reason I asked the question is because I realized that had the crash never happened, Coleco would have moved to some of the games in the list above eventually. And from a programmer's POV there is a different challenge to be had from those more advanced games. We can use the 2600 as an example here. Back in 1977 could someone imagine a game like Battlezone on the 2600, with the pack-in being Combat?

With pre-crash games we are pushing the CV to get as close as possible to the arcade experience, each small detail of it. With post-crash we would be pushing to get as much of the original as possible inside a CV cartridge, even if a lot of compromise has to be made. That was an aspect that I actually enjoyed about the 2600, even if most ports were a crude representation of the originals, there was a certain charm about seeing a 5 years old piece of hardware created back when Thank was state of art, trying to emulate much more advanced stuff.

[Manoau2002]

I personally would rather see original games developed over both pre and post crash ports. Its interesting to see what people can do using the original colecovision hardware and some creativity. It would be cool to see some sequels to some of the original colecovision titles. ( Like a Donkey Kong 3, Gorf 2 ,ect.) Or to continue a series like the super action sports.

[Pixelboy]

I am very much in agreement with Luc concerning the post-crash line-up of games that are listed. While it would be amazing to see our little old CVs playing these "more modern" games with the aid of the SGM, for some reason it just doesn't appeal to me as much. I could easily pickup an NES, SMS, Genesis or Super NES along with those games for dirt cheap and play them immediately instead of having to wait for a year, two or three depending on your current schedule of games that you want to develop.

 

That's what I'm thinking as well. Games like Rygar, Ikari Warriors, 1943 and Legendary Wings are at home on the NES, not the CV.

 

What I would love to see is a concerted effort to focus on finisihing off the vaporware titles like Wild Western, Skiing, Wizard of Wor as well as the possibility of focusing on games that planned to be developed or in-development when Coleco pulled the plug... I have a rather lengthy list in my Collectors Rarity List.

 

I have to admit that I would enjoy publishing at least one Coleco vaporware title under my Team Pixelboy label. I'm not sure which one I would prefer most though. Dracula would obviously be at the top of my list, but my version of Dracula would likely not look much like the promo mockup (but it would definately still be an isometric affair). Skiing would be cool, Wild Western too, I suppose. Another good candidate would be Sword and the Sorcerer, which I would do as a sort of Rastan clone. And then there's Wizard of Oz, for which there's no screenshot available, so I could let my imagination run wild, with respect to the source material of course.

[Pixelboy]

I personally would rather see original games developed over both pre and post crash ports. Its interesting to see what people can do using the original colecovision hardware and some creativity. It would be cool to see some sequels to some of the original colecovision titles. ( Like a Donkey Kong 3, Gorf 2 ,ect.) Or to continue a series like the super action sports.

 

Just yesterday I was pondering some gameplay concepts for Pepper I (i.e. the prequel to Pepper II).

[+grips03]

If any of the above games can be 2 player co-op I would like them. I think Ikari did this, perhaps even Commando might have had this option. I've never played Black Tiger, but the video on youtube looks great. Rygar I remember from NES and I think it was pretty good, but different from the arcade version.

 

For me I would vote for Archon 2 - not listed

[opcode]

That's what I'm thinking as well. Games like Rygar, Ikari Warriors, 1943 and Legendary Wings are at home on the NES, not the CV.

 

 

 

Still you don't mind Arkanoid, a game released in 1986.... Or all the MSX ports for the matter...

[NIAD]

Still you don't mind Arkanoid, a game released in 1986.... Or all the MSX ports for the matter...

Indeed, the lines definetely do become muddied when talking about porting this game or that game from this system or that system especially now that more advanced and "newer" games can be considered thanks to the SGM, MegaCart and Super Game Cart.

 

As is always the case with videogames... pick a good one to port, make the port to the best of your abilities, add in all the bells and whistles like a professional box/manual/label and you got yourself a winner that everyone will want to purchase.

 

While I have my preferences for what I'd like to see done, I'm always open to anything. I'm easy that way!

[+Darrin9999]

Just do them all! the more games the better!!

[+Yurkie]

Wild Western would be my top pick of games mentioned so far in this thread.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Yurkie

[Pixelboy]

Still you don't mind Arkanoid, a game released in 1986.... Or all the MSX ports for the matter...

 

Of course, if the CV's graphic chip can do a respectable version of Arkanoid, why not?

 

And don't you think you're sidetracking your own thread by bringing the MSX into the equation? Games like Penguin Adventure or Maze of Galious use the same graphic mode as the CV, and with the SGM, the sounds from the original MSX games can be reproduced directly and faithfully, so those games are not pushing the hardware all that much, they just need more RAM and more ROM to function.

[frank_c]

I liked Commando, but probably from playing it on C64. Don't have much experience with the other games on that list.

[ten-four]

How do you guys feel about the idea of porting some slightly more modern arcade games.

 

Eduardo

 

Hi Eduardo.

 

There is a few games I would like to see to our ColecoVision from what you recommend above.

 

Commando

1942

Tiger Heli

Ikari Warriors

Green Beret

Chuka taisen

 

But first the games listed on your site:

DKA, Arkanoid, Pengo, Moon Patrol, New Rally-X, Dig Dug, Knightmare 2, Wizard Of Wor and of course Gradius.

[frank_c]

And I used to play Heavy Barrel a lot but I know the control config would be hard to duplicate.

[opcode]

Of course, if the CV's graphic chip can do a respectable version of Arkanoid, why not?

 

And don't you think you're sidetracking your own thread by bringing the MSX into the equation? Games like Penguin Adventure or Maze of Galious use the same graphic mode as the CV, and with the SGM, the sounds from the original MSX games can be reproduced directly and faithfully, so those games are not pushing the hardware all that much, they just need more RAM and more ROM to function.

 

Well, we are discussing post crash games, so most MSX games fit that category. For example, Arkanoid fits the post crash category pretty well, it has power ups, limited number of stages then the game ends, etc.

Same as the MSX games you listed above. So your reasoning doesn't seem consistent. We are porting Stone of Wisdom, which is mostly a Zelda clone, which in turn is a NES game. But at the same time you are saying that Rygar and Ikari Warriors belong on the NES. Hmmm...

[Pixelboy]

Well, we are discussing post crash games, so most MSX games fit that category. For example, Arkanoid fits the post crash category pretty well, it has power ups, limited number of stages then the game ends, etc.

Same as the MSX games you listed above. So your reasoning doesn't seem consistent. We are porting Stone of Wisdom, which is mostly a Zelda clone, which in turn is a NES game. But at the same time you are saying that Rygar and Ikari Warriors belong on the NES. Hmmm...

 

If you're looking strictly at release years, my intervention may seem to lack consistence, but from my point of view, release years mean very little. The "doability" of the port is far more relevant to me. Take Commando, for example: The arcade game has 16-bit graphics with a multitude of soldier and bullet sprites filling the screen, and music/FX that goes far beyond what the CV's sound chip is capable of producing. While a ColecoVision version of Commando is definately possible, it would see a significant downgrade in graphics, music and on-screen action, with a lot of sprite flicker too. So it's simply not my idea of a good candidate for a CV port, and I can say the same for several games in your original list.

 

Arkanoid, on the other hand, can be done in a satisfactory manner on the CV. You'll see an obvious downgrade in colors compared to the arcade version, but you won't lose much more than that in the conversion. As for Stone of Wisdom, there's nothing there that the CV cannot handle with the help of the SGM. We're talking about a straight port here, same as Penguin Land or Maze of Galious.

 

I understand that the starting point of your discussion was "post-crash" games, so the year bears some importance, but my point is that you have to treat these post-crash games case-by-case. Some are good fits for the CV, and some others aren't. And there's always the MSX / SG-1000 angle to consider: The MSX version of 1942 could be ported to the CV relatively easely, so 1942 is a good candidate for a CV version even if the arcade game has 16-bit graphics.

[digress]

I was thinking about BAGMAN this morning as i was driving as a port to coleco. That would be a fantastic game on coleco.

 

From Opcodes list I would choose commando which is a lot of fun too,

[opcode]

If you're looking strictly at release years, my intervention may seem to lack consistence, but from my point of view, release years mean very little. The "doability" of the port is far more relevant to me. Take Commando, for example: The arcade game has 16-bit graphics with a multitude of soldier and bullet sprites filling the screen, and music/FX that goes far beyond what the CV's sound chip is capable of producing. While a ColecoVision version of Commando is definately possible, it would see a significant downgrade in graphics, music and on-screen action, with a lot of sprite flicker too. So it's simply not my idea of a good candidate for a CV port, and I can say the same for several games in your original list.

 

Arkanoid, on the other hand, can be done in a satisfactory manner on the CV. You'll see an obvious downgrade in colors compared to the arcade version, but you won't lose much more than that in the conversion. As for Stone of Wisdom, there's nothing there that the CV cannot handle with the help of the SGM. We're talking about a straight port here, same as Penguin Land or Maze of Galious.

 

I understand that the starting point of your discussion was "post-crash" games, so the year bears some importance, but my point is that you have to treat these post-crash games case-by-case. Some are good fits for the CV, and some others aren't. And there's always the MSX / SG-1000 angle to consider: The MSX version of 1942 could be ported to the CV relatively easely, so 1942 is a good candidate for a CV version even if the arcade game has 16-bit graphics.

 

There isn't such thing as 16-bit graphics, unless you mean Genesis/SNES like graphics. Video performance is usually more related to memory bandwidth. For example, the 5200 had about half the video memory bandwidth of the CV. The Famicom/NES curiously has about the same bandwidth as the CV. So why is the NES superior you ask? Because Nintendo placed the sprite attributes inside the video chip as registers, instead of in the video RAM. That saves a lot of bandwidth and allows the NES to have better graphics. The V9958 has twice the memory bandwidth of the CV, as has the SMS. More memory bandwidth means more colors per tile, extra planes, more sprites, sometimes more resolution. But I digress...

 

Back on topic, I think you are being too conservative. You want to keep the CV games too much in the comfort zone. That is nice, games are going to look good, etc. But every single successful console has gone beyond their comfort zone. The 2600 went from Combat to Battlezone. The NES went from Mario Bros to Super Mario Bros 3. The MSX went from Super Cobra to Gofer no Yabou: Episode II. I don't think the ColecoVision had the same opportunity just because of the crash, it just died too soon.

[+Psionic]

I am very much in agreement with Luc concerning the post-crash line-up of games that are listed. While it would be amazing to see our little old CVs playing these "more modern" games with the aid of the SGM, for some reason it just doesn't appeal to me as much. I could easily pickup an NES, SMS, Genesis or Super NES along with those games for dirt cheap and play them immediately instead of having to wait for a year, two or three depending on your current schedule of games that you want to develop.

 

For what it's worth, I feel pretty much the same. The ColecoVision was known for having ports of obscure arcade titles. Personally, I'd like to see more of these types of games, specifically games that received few if any ports to the home consoles of the day. I think Scott Huggins had the right idea by porting games like Astro Invader and Spectar (which of course was an original Coleco vaporware title). We need more ports of coin-ops by Exidy, Universal, Venture Line, etc. I don't have the technical ability to program CV games, but if I did, that's the kind of games I'd be doing. That's just my personal taste.

 

Along those lines, one of the games I'd most like to see on the ColecoVision is the Sega/Gremlin game Pulsar. The game is simple and fun (I think), it was never ported to any game console, and it should be reasonably easy to develop a nearly arcade perfect translation that would run on a on a stock ColecoVision.

 

In terms of MSX or SG-1000 translations, I wouldn't mind seeing Flicky on the ColecoVision.

[Pixelboy]

There isn't such thing as 16-bit graphics, unless you mean Genesis/SNES like graphics.

 

Yeah, that's right. That's what I meant.

 

 

Back on topic, I think you are being too conservative. You want to keep the CV games too much in the comfort zone. That is nice, games are going to look good, etc. But every single successful console has gone beyond their comfort zone. The 2600 went from Combat to Battlezone. The NES went from Mario Bros to Super Mario Bros 3. The MSX went from Super Cobra to Gofer no Yabou: Episode II. I don't think the ColecoVision had the same opportunity just because of the crash, it just died too soon.

 

I would agree with you about taking the CV out of its confort zone if we were talking about a commercially viable machine, but the CV was put to rest commercially a couple of decades ago. Any new CV game is done firmly in the realm of homebrew development. This implies development cycles stretched out over many months (sometimes years) of free time devoted to the hobby without any solid salary attached to it. Under those conditions, staying within the comfort zone isn't a bad thing by any means.

 

ColecoVision fans want new games, and generally, they don't mind waiting for them, especially the really good ones. So I have to maintain my point: There are already many pre-crash titles that deserve to be released on the CV, many of which can be programmed/ported in reasonable time frames. For home ports of post-crash arcade games, I'll just get myself an NES.

[Greg2600]

I would hold off on mid-80s games which were ported fairly accurately to master system or NES. I just feel that they belong to the 3rd console generation, historically and that the ports won't be as close as the more powerful systems produced.