Out of curiosity

[AVoltoro]

Hello. I was wondering if, for the Lynx, you put external hardware into the game cartridge and still have work. Now, before you ask, I am not talking about a bigger R.O.M or external graphics chip. What I am talking about is something a lot more exotic.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoUmaaaAh80

 

This is a link explaining the game that inspired me, Boktai. For those of you who don't know (which will be all of you) Boktai was a series of games for the Game Boy Advance which had a solar sensor in the cartridge, which was used to charge up your weapon and take down bosses. Now I am not looking to put this in the cartridge, but a Barometer that could sense the weather outside and put it in the game, so for example if it was raining outside it would be raining in the game. Would this be theoretically possible with the programming language used for Atari Lynx's?

[Cammy]

I'd be very interested to know what can be accessed through a cartridge as well, I always thought it would be really cool to add a rumble pack to a Lynx game cartridge, like the one in DrillDozer for Game Boy Advance.

[the.golden.ax]

I've been playing with the idea on 2600 games for a few years. Switching a relay during a bank switch. It adds all kind of fun possibilities. Should be possible.

[LX.NET]

I am not a hardware guy, but from the perspective of programming the Lynx, I think it is possible, as long as the hardware can react to simple signals from the Lynx. The way the cartridge is read is really simplistic. You fill a shift register with the address you want to use and read values, which increment the actual address for the next read. The EEPROM support has been added by utilizing the AUDIN (Auxiliary Data Input) that allows you to "switch" to something else if you wanted to and have hardware hooked up (like an EEPROM). Having said that, if the temperature sensor can by read by a using this simple mechanism, it should be possible.

[+karri]

You can add certain kind of serial sensors to a cart. The AUDIN is very limited so some clever programmers use the ROM's address lines to generate the missing signals. Accessing EEPROM's is very slow in this way.

 

It might be possible to access other sensors like accelerometers by the same technique.

[timothyscarlson]

Interesting ideas. Related: is there a 'breakout' board for the lynx? Something that plugs into the cart slot and has a breadboarding area for HW development? Maybe even having a second cart connector so you can plug in a real cart, in addition to the proto hardware? That would be extremely useful for those of us interested in both software AND hardware development.

 

It might be something worthwhile and in demand in the community.

[+karri]

The problem with break-out boxes is that all components are surface mounted today. It is really easier to just create the board you need.

[AVoltoro]

I am very surprised to get this large of a response for this thread, so I thank everyone who spent the time to post under this topic. It has also been of great help as well, although there are a few things I need clarity on. To start with, LX.NET mentioned something called a shift register, something I know nothing about. I also wish to know what the AUDIN actually does without fancy bells and whistles in the cartridge.

[LX.NET]

AUDIN is nothing but an on/off bit in a hardware register (memory mapped) that you can connect to any piece of hardware. The shift register is like a conveyor belt of bits that get shifted. This means that in your Lynx program's code, you need to use many cycles, because you are working bit by bit. That's why Karri said it is pretty slow.

 

Vince, a French Lynx developer actually managed to create a game (Tempest, but called Ouragan) with accelerometer support: http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/196639-ouragan-new-version/

There's even YouTube movies on it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTAwUBJaZmY

[timothyscarlson]

This has me very interested in producing a prototyping board for the Lynx. I have my own ideas on what should be incorporated, but I won't mind if others chime in with their own. Here's my quickie list:

 

1) Lynx card edge connection (of course)

2) PCB length sufficient so the prototyping area extends outside of the body of the Lynx (both Lynx 1 & 2)

3) 34 pin 0.1" header for connecting a 'daughter card' (this is where SMT devices can be incorporated)

4) Secondary Lynx connector (if I can find them), which will allow plugging in _any_ game cart, along with the proto board

5) 15x20 (or whatever it works out to) 0.1" spacing bread boarding area

 

I've got a line on a PCB manufacturer here in SEA - I need to figure out some prelim pricing with the PCB, parts and shipping/taxes.

[+karri]

I published a blank Lynx cart that has the contact traces and the right size in an Eagle CAD library. You can grab it from there or I can send you the gerbers and the project files.

 

-

Karri

[timothyscarlson]

Oh, yes please. Then I don't have to figure out the dimensions for the PCB edge connector. Or the board dimensions - other than extending it a bit for the prototyping area.

 

Link?

[GadgetUK]

Sounds like a great idea! I've been wondering about using the comlynx port - connect it to USB and I guess you could do all sorts if things...

[+karri]

Here is the gerbers and eagle files of one of my projects.

 

--

Karri

lynxeagle.zip

gerbers.zip

[AVoltoro]

Once again I would like to thank you all (especially LX.NET for that awesome video of that accelerometer in that Lynx cartridge) but I will probably have to start this in April/March time. Like I said, this was out of curiosity, and I don't even have a Lynx as of yet. Still, I will try to sort this out, as my project for the 2600 is getting more error messages than even other people in the forums know how to deal with.

[AVoltoro]

Also after researching how barometers work, while it would be possible to put on in a Atari Lynx cartridge, it would be very expensive and because of this, not practical.

[+karri]

Also after researching how barometers work, while it would be possible to put on in a Atari Lynx cartridge, it would be very expensive and because of this, not practical.

 

Today you can get a barometer even in your watch. I am sure some guys have made cheap sensor chips for virtually everything.

 

What I have been wishing for is a wireless lipstick antenna that plugs into ComLynx (and works like ComLynx with old software).

 

And a cart around 15€ with 512k of reprogrammable memory and a small EEPROM.

[LX.NET]

I was going to aim for about the same thing that Karri mentioned: a wireless module, that takes care of the SSID and encryption setup of a wireless network and provides UART functionality. I thought of a cartridge fitted module, but Karri's idea is much better.

And I second the cheap 512k cart with EEPROM. Anyone care to begin a Kickstarter.com funded project?

[+karri]

And I second the cheap 512k cart with EEPROM. Anyone care to begin a Kickstarter.com funded project?

 

Out of curiosity I checked the prices of some microcontrollers with 1024k flash on the chip.

 

STM32F415RGT6 - STM32F415 ARM Microcontroller 1024k bytes Flash Memory

 

The price is below $12. And it would have an USB interface as well for programming the cart. Plus tons of other features like A/D, D/A, I2C, SPI and so on.

 

Perhaps the cart could be designed so that the PCB is thin enough to let the chip sit close to the cart connector. The rest of the cart could have a prototyping area for cool gadgets like barometers or accelerometers.

 

On this cart you could program most complex stuff using the ARM and just have simple APIs for communicating with the Lynx.

[LX.NET]

 

 

Out of curiosity I checked the prices of some microcontrollers with 1024k flash on the chip.

 

STM32F415RGT6 - STM32F415 ARM Microcontroller 1024k bytes Flash Memory

 

The price is below $12. And it would have an USB interface as well for programming the cart. Plus tons of other features like A/D, D/A, I2C, SPI and so on.

 

Perhaps the cart could be designed so that the PCB is thin enough to let the chip sit close to the cart connector. The rest of the cart could have a prototyping area for cool gadgets like barometers or accelerometers.

 

On this cart you could program most complex stuff using the ARM and just have simple APIs for communicating with the Lynx.

 

If this is possible, then I'm all game (pun intended).

It would open up a whole slew of possibilities regarding development, release of homebrew games, and internet connectivity. I would love to see an interface compatible with Arduino, .NET Gadgeteer so we can interact with external hardware, much like the WonderBorg for the WonderSwan.

I'm electronically design challenged, but if there is any way I can help here, let me know.

[matashen]

Out of curiosity I checked the prices of some microcontrollers with 1024k flash on the chip.

 

STM32F415RGT6 - STM32F415 ARM Microcontroller 1024k bytes Flash Memory

 

The price is below $12. And it would have an USB interface as well for programming the cart. Plus tons of other features like A/D, D/A, I2C, SPI and so on.

 

Perhaps the cart could be designed so that the PCB is thin enough to let the chip sit close to the cart connector. The rest of the cart could have a prototyping area for cool gadgets like barometers or accelerometers.

 

On this cart you could program most complex stuff using the ARM and just have simple APIs for communicating with the Lynx.

What a dream,

i think for this money thats not possible - a complex PCB that can hold all the components in 2,5mm Material and maybe 4 or more layer takes more than 12 bucks and than you have to care about some other things that needs some money in advance... if you can produce thousands of that pcb maybe there is a way.

[+karri]

True. It is perhaps overkill.

 

Another possibility would be to aim for a 512k cart with no external components (except 3.6V power regulation, resistor pack for address lines and buffers for the data bus).

 

We could simulate my devflash functionality (Intel StrataFlash commands) and program it over ComLynx.

 

Just a single ARM chip, no USB's, no external chips. An USB-ComLynx cable costs around $15 from FTDI.

 

There is also a 768k chip available that is slightly cheaper then the 1024k one. Perhaps $9 or so.

 

You could reserve 512k for the Lynx ROM and use the rest for the ARM programming.

 

For changing the Lynx program on the chip you download it to the Lynx over ComLynx in pieces and let the Lynx transfer the data to the ARM chip.

 

The ARM would be flashed at the factory using the JTAG interface to contain the proper stuff to get the system up and running.

 

The ARM could also simulate the EEPROM functionality. So there is no need to add that as a chip on the PCB.

 

I believe that €15 might be possible.

 

I have no idea what it would cost to add a molded plastic cover like Zaku has.

 

From the users point of view you could reprogram the cart with your own creations or old classics when you get tired of the original content.

 

From the developers point of view you could produce quality releases without tying up lots of money in production or stock. Just buy 50 blank carts and add a label plus program it at the time you ship the product.

 

Perhaps kickstart funding could be an option to design the prototype and create the first batch of 400-500 carts. (500 * 15€ plus 2500€ for development = 10 000€)

 

Or if this is too much to wish for a smaller startup at 100 carts (100 * 15€ plus 2500€ for development = 4 000€)

 

--

Karri

[+karri]

A second thought. This would also open up a new delivery format. Just publish your game.lnx file on AtariAge with a jpeg label that the end user can print out and glue to the cart.

Good for freeware publications like Yastuna I and II

[+karri]

I seem to be talking with myself mostly... Is this something to be worried about?

 

Anyway, in Farnells catalog there was an evaluation board with a 1024k chip plus microphone, speaker, motion sensor, 3 axis accelerometer and USB connectivity. Total price for the kit 18€ assembled and ready to run. I could get it by Wednesday to Finland.

 

So the development cost is likely to be extremely low instead of the estimated 2500€.

[LX.NET]

Just to let you know I am reading all of this. Not a hardware buff, but willing to back up any kickstarter project or other initiative to get to see the light of this. Also willing to invest in a prototype cart if that is helpful. And love to get programming on this.

What I also find very interesting to get to see is a ComLynx to PC cable. I am sure that for people in the know this is a no-brained, but I would love to program the connectivity of a Lynx game to PC, thereby opening up options for internet connectivity and other things. There was a lot of talk on uploading games to the Lynx through ComLunx, but I would really.like to get my hands on the required cable (USB preferred over Serial).