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Midnight Mutants - Color Me Impressed

midnight mutants rpg adventure action 7800

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#1 Trebor OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 3, 2013 9:39 AM

Embarrassingly I am admitting I never 'really' gave this game a thorough try. Sure, I constantly tried it, basically walking around exploring areas trying to figure out what to do, but nothing even worthy of 'the old college try'.

I did the same thing with Raiders of the Lost Ark back in '82-83 (But actually gave it 'the old college try'). If I recall correctly I just threw the manual out with the box and tried to figure out on my own what to do. It would not be until I spoke with a friend YEARS later in the later 80's that I would finally understand exactly what needed to be done.

You thought I would learn....NOPE.

15 years later and finally obtaining a brand new box copy of Midnight Mutants (For 40 cents, thanks O'Shea's), I took the same "Raiders" approach. Can't believe what I have been missing.

First thing to do - and actually do it constantly in the game, much like my favorite NES game Rygar, or the infamous Zelda, LISTEN TO THE OLD MAN. For Midnight Mutants it means regularly hitting the right button. He directs you excellently.


***SPOILERS - Do not read this part if you do not want hints/early part walkthrough***


-Obtained the knife from the house to be able to kill things.
-Opened church door with knife and obtained the cross to ward off bats.
-Obtained the ax from the south woods inside the cabin by the well of health restoration
-Entered barn area through bush which casts no shadow
-Fought huge Ram head boss and loss - Came so close to defeating it though - (1 health head left).



***SPOILERS OVER***


Thoughts:
-Off the bat, cannot believe there have been no hacks for this game. Wishing this game received the love Atari 2600 Adventure has seen.
-Bats are too many, too often, too annoying. The first thing I would love to see with this game is the reduction on most screens they appear, if not wiped from many sections entirely. They have to be the most unnecessary frustration in the game that for the most part provides no real challenge (Especially with the cross in hand) and just turn people off from playing the game, IMHO.

I am actually really impressed though. I never knew how good or relatively diverse the game was and yet well directed if you LISTEN TO GRANDPA. Previously without grandpa, I found myself wandering through many boards filled with bats, just losing health without real understanding of what to do or where to go.

I may have to read that manual though, one day. :-D

#2 KevinMos3 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 3, 2013 9:49 AM

cannot believe there have been no hacks for this game.


I've actually tried doing some things with it, but there seems to be some kind of protection that some of the later games have. If I change anything, the game won't boot. I've run into this problem with Fatal Run as well. I've been meaning to post about this to see if anyone knows how to get around it, because my limited ability for hex editing just isn't going to do it.


I am actually really impressed though. I never knew how good or relatively diverse the game was and yet well directed if you LISTEN TO GRANDPA. Previously without grandpa, I found myself wandering through many boards filled with bats, just losing health without real understanding of what to do or where to go.

I may have to read that manual though, one day. :-D


Yes, the manual contains a very handy map too! ;)

I agree. This is an awesome game. I really love it, but rarely play it because it takes some time. It's one of those games that I was pretty much craving as a kid (the NES style games), with bosses and large play areas, but almost too large to play in one sitting. A password feature would have really perfected it IMO. I've recently been wanting to spend time with it again. I've only ever completed it once.

#3 LidLikesIntellivision OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 3, 2013 11:13 AM

I discovered the game recently in the HSC (actually all 7800 games are new to me) and I loved the game.
I think I finished the game 6 or 7 times in the same day! I had to finish the game many times before I could know how to get the maximum score of 999,999,990 or so :dunce:.

#4 Trebor OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 3, 2013 3:03 PM

I think I finished the game 6 or 7 times in the same day! I had to finish the game many times before I could know how to get the maximum score of 999,999,990 or so :dunce:.


Wow, that's quite impressive. Don't think I will ever be near that good at the game, but hope to at least beat it a few times around.

Roughly, how long does it take to beat the game on average?

I'm curious how much time I would have to truly set aside to be able to accomplish the task, when (if) I became better at the game.

#5 LidLikesIntellivision OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 3, 2013 3:11 PM

At the end of the day I could beat it in 35 minutes, I guess.
I think I beated for the second time (so I knew what to do) in 50 minutes or so.

First time to beat can take much more because sometimes you simply don't know where to go...

P.S.: I'm not the best person to keep track of time when I'm playing... :-D

#6 Trebor OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 3, 2013 3:16 PM

At the end of the day I could beat it in 35 minutes, I guess.
I think I beated for the second time (so I knew what to do) in 50 minutes or so.

First time to beat can take much more because sometimes you simply don't know where to go...

P.S.: I'm not the best person to keep track of time when I'm playing... :-D


Awesome...That is right around where I got to nailing down Rygar on the NES....
This very well may be my Rygar of the 7800. :)

#7 Mord OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 5, 2013 1:24 PM

Wow, that's quite impressive. Don't think I will ever be near that good at the game, but hope to at least beat it a few times around.


The score isn't as impressive as you'd think. If you complete the game successfully then your score dramatically inflates into that kind of range.

#8 Trebor OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 5, 2013 1:34 PM

The score isn't as impressive as you'd think. If you complete the game successfully then your score dramatically inflates into that kind of range.


Ah...Then it sounds like something else that needs 'tweaking', much like the exaggerated number of bats and their constant appearance on many boards.

Too bad about the protection Kevin mentioned.

Maybe if "Blue" is interested, he could try his hand at a disassembly of this game.
:ponder:

#9 LidLikesIntellivision OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 5, 2013 2:22 PM

II thought the impressive was for finishing 7 times in one day.
I did this because I took some time to learn how to get maximum score and not something as 998,923,999

#10 Trebor OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 5, 2013 2:30 PM

I thought the impressive was for finishing 7 times in one day.
I did this because I took some time to learn how to get maximum score and not something as 998,923,999


The number of times you beat it in one day (7) is impressive, but honestly the score is what took me back more. Especially, after seeing how much lower mine was I never would fathom it hitting anything close to almost a billion...

Not taking anything away from your accomplishment, Liduario...I appreciate all the input being received here for a previously very underrated game (At least in my book). Looking forward to beating it one day...time and circumstance I don't think is in my favor right now for it.

#11 LidLikesIntellivision OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 5, 2013 2:43 PM

No problem!
And I know that game has a strange way to boost scores.
When you finish you get a Lot of points.

#12 oyamafamily OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 5, 2013 5:17 PM

@Trebor, you are invited to watch my Midinight Mutants gameplay videos which I made, in order to see my walkthrough from start to endpoint.
Please, Trebor! Note that in theory, I should die at 6:59 mark on the Second Part of my gameplay when I was preparing to exit the mansion definitively.
Important note: I had to use EMU7800 due to the crashes on Prosystem Emulator.

PART 1 OF 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HChAjtnNyw8

PART 2 OF 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGXwLLC8p70

PART 3 OF 3 (FINAL):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lep3Bj6iC8I

Edited by oyamafamily, Tue Mar 5, 2013 5:25 PM.


#13 DracIsBack OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:48 AM

Always wished they made a sequel to this game

#14 Trebor OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:54 AM

Always wished they made a sequel to this game


I always wished for better Ms. Pac-Man experience...
I always wished for better Donkey Kong sound...

Both came true above and beyond my wishes....

Who knows a Midnight Mutants(-like) sequel could be on the horizon.
Keeping fingers crossed :)

#15 Trebor OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:17 AM

Resurrecting this "dead" thread because....

 

FINALLY...

 

 

A (huge) piece of advice - not giving any spoilers away here (unlike the above video :grin: ) - for those like me who did not know/realize...

 

HOLD DOWN THE BUTTON to fire continuously!

 

There is no need to 'button-mash' for fast firing.  

In fact, button mashing/trying to fire as rapidly as possible with repeated button presses, will often result in misfires or delayed shooting.

I learned this the very hard way.  :dunce:

 

Started holding down the button instead of button mashing and the game was completed.



#16 Prosystemsearch OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:20 AM

Maybe, JUST MAYBE, like Beef drop, there will be a POKEY enhanced Midnight Mutants, plus passwords like in meltdown.



#17 thucom OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:05 PM

 

There is no need to 'button-mash' for fast firing.  

In fact, button mashing/trying to fire as rapidly as possible with repeated button presses, will often result in misfires or delayed shooting.

I learned this the very hard way.  :dunce:

 

Started holding down the button instead of button mashing and the game was completed.

Maybe I could make the game a bit more challenging by taking a button mashing challenge. Also, bah I just realized that somebody else got the #2 video on the recommended list at youtube.



#18 KevinMos3 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:18 AM

Thoughts:
-Off the bat, cannot believe there have been no hacks for this game. Wishing this game received the love Atari 2600 Adventure has seen.

I've actually tried doing some things with it, but there seems to be some kind of protection that some of the later games have. If I change anything, the game won't boot. I've run into this problem with Fatal Run as well. I've been meaning to post about this to see if anyone knows how to get around it, because my limited ability for hex editing just isn't going to do it.

 
Well this is kinda embarrassing... turns out, the only reason I couldn't get these games to work after altering something is that I was using Prosystem -- and despite the game having a header, the emulator needs an entry in the Prosystem.dat in order to work. If you want to hack the game, all you need to do afterward (in addition to making sure it's got a proper signature), is make sure you put the new md5 value in a Prosystem.dat entry. DUH! If I had been using MESS a couple of years ago, I would not have had that problem.
:dunce:

#19 Shannon OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:34 AM

You can also tell prosystem not to use the prosystem.dat file.  I think there is an option in the menu.



#20 Trebor OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:46 AM

Kevin, thanks for the follow-up (and honesty).

 

The ProSystem emulator has become somewhat of a Nesticle/Genecyst emulator for the 7800 community.   ;)

 

 If I had been using MESS a couple of years ago, I would not have had that problem.

 

A couple of years ago, MESS a7800 emulation still lacked some significant features (Most notably Maria cycle stealing/eating).  True, you would have avoided the aforementioned problem though.  Nevertheless, especially since 0.153 with all the outstanding work performed, it is really the better option.  For accuracy of system emulation, the two are not even in the same ballpark.  

 

The feature richness of MESS is quite remarkable as well (CRT effects, including individual video controls and overlays, as well as always having superior POKEY emulation).  What ProSystem does have is an easier to use GUI/front-end.  With the latest MESS developments of accurate high score saving support, additional/proper XM support (including the YM sound chip), and subsequently XBoard support, all mapped and laid out properly with no hacking, hopefully more will gravitate to it.  

 

After the dust settles with the latest updates, I'm going to look into putting another tutorial up - Don't believe it can me made much/any easier than this, but possibly incorporating QMC2 as an option.  :)



#21 Jinks ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:15 PM

Any emulator should be download/install emulator on computer, download roms, run emulator and load rom on emulator. Any more complicated than that then its not user friendly. Whats the need for any other steps? The only thing else is setting up controller info like what button does what.
If mess gets to that level to match its console like capability I would use it till then prosystem is the only emulator that provides that option for average user.

#22 Trebor OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:09 PM

Any emulator should be download/install emulator on computer, download roms, run emulator and load rom on emulator. Any more complicated than that then its not user friendly. Whats the need for any other steps?

 

There may be other steps due to tweaking such options as video and audio preferences, among other things. 

 

However, coincidentally enough you listed four steps.  Did you check the highlighted link?

 

"Any emulator should be...

 

...download/install emulator on computer...

1.  Download MESS 0.153 (Direct link to Win32 most compatible version which works on XP/Vista/7/8, 32 or 64-bit - for other flavors see here).

          -Double click the downloaded file and install to desired location.

 

...download roms...

2.  Unzip the following file to the same desired location:  zip.gif  MESS0153_A7800_ADDFILES_20140421.zip   3.32MB 

 

...run emulator....

3.  Double click either "PLAY_NTSC_ATARI_7800" or "PLAY_PAL_ATARI_7800". 

 

...and load rom on emulator."

4.  Press 'Tab' --> Arrow down to 'File Manager' and press 'Enter' --> After 'Cartslot' appears, press 'Enter' again --> Highlight game ROM (Use arrow keys down/up), press 'Enter' and play game.

 

"Any more complicated than that then its not user friendly."

Four steps, just as you desire.  ;)

 

Nonetheless, the latest MESS developments adds high score saving support along with XM/Xboard support. Just as with the real hardware there would be more steps to have those devices up and running, there may be 1-2 additional steps (if that) to have XM/Xboad and or high score saving support.

 

Then again, I believe they'll just be a couple more choices added to step 3 [I.E. PLAY_NTSC_ATARI_7800XM, PLAY_PAL_ATARI_7800XM].  Regardless, will keep it as easy as possible for those that just want it that way, while also providing alternative instructions for those looking for more tweaking. :)



#23 KevinMos3 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:35 PM

I'd like to see what some of the talented ppl here can do with the character sprites. :)

#24 Jinks ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:41 PM

Well that sounds easier now will have to give it another try!!

#25 Trebor OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:47 AM

I'd like to see what some of the talented ppl here can do with the character sprites. :)

 

I'm hoping one of those talented ppl includes someone who has already done some fantastic work with such games as Choplifter, Kung Fu Master, Impossible Mission, Tank Command, Water Ski...

 

I think you might know the person. ;)







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