Tempest on 7800

[peteym5]

For those of you that don't know me. I am the programmer for Tempest Xtreem that is available on the Atari 8-Bit. [400/800,XL,XE]

 

I did Tempest Xtreem using the 8-bits graphics modes that supports line drawing on a 8K screen in RAM. All the points are saved and lines drawn between them. I know the 7800 doesn't have that, only 4K ram available. I am thinking of doing it with a character [custom font] mapped screen. Font would contain some of the possible line angles. Every 15 degrees or something. I have almost 0 7800 graphics programming knowlege. I am just fluent with the 6502, ANTIC, GTIA, POKEY. I need to look at some samples on how screens and sprites are set up.

[Shinju]

Sweet, I been trying to get ahold of one of you who did the Atari 8bit version to see if I can still get a copy of Tempest Xtreem on a cart!

 

This sounds like a great project and look forward to see it grow every step of the way!

Edited April 4, 2013 by Shinju

[VicViper]

I would certainly be in line for a cart.

[PacManPlus]

Hi!

 

I have some general examples in this thread: http://atariage.com/...my-source-code/

 

(Disclaimer: I know my code is inefficient, so please be kind with any comments you may have)

 

I think the only other way of doing this is to make 1 scanline high display lists (after the score lines of course)... Then writing a line drawing routine; I'm sure you know what I mean.

I started doing that with Battlezone, but haven't worked on it in a long time. If you want I can send you my Battlezone source (all it does now is draw the title screen).

 

Bob

[peteym5]

Sweet, I been trying to get ahold of one of you who did the Atari 8bit version to see if I can still get a copy of Tempest Xtreem on a cart!

 

This sounds like a great project and look forward to see it grow every step of the way!

 

Currently Lance at Video 61 is producing and selling the carts for us.

http://members.tcq.net/video61/index.html

 

Hi!

 

I have some general examples in this thread: http://atariage.com/...my-source-code/

 

(Disclaimer: I know my code is inefficient, so please be kind with any comments you may have)

 

I think the only other way of doing this is to make 1 scanline high display lists (after the score lines of course)... Then writing a line drawing routine; I'm sure you know what I mean.

I started doing that with Battlezone, but haven't worked on it in a long time. If you want I can send you my Battlezone source (all it does now is draw the title screen).

 

Bob

 

I would need to see how it would be possible to do line drawing to be able to port games that used line drawing like Tempest, Missile Command, BattleZone.

 

I am conisidering being just a co-programmer if someone wants to take up figuring and writing some of the graphics core routines. Saving the whole screen as a bitmap image is not practical even on 1 megabyte cartridge. That is If we want to do lane highlighting.

 

Not sure if we can include it with a POKEY chip and do the Tempest 2000 sound tracks and Sound Sample Playback. The Sample Playback is also very CPU instensive. I had to load all the samples into RAM before playing them back because it would had to do a bank switch for every 4 bits played over 4000 times per second. Are there any other sound chips that can be put onto a 7800 cartridge?

[Shinju]

Thank you for the lead!

 

Also, there is a 7800 XM Expantion adaptor that is close to being released, maybe look into making the Tempest Xtreem 7800 port on that and see if you cannot utilize its extra goodies like the Yamaha sound chip ect ect.

 

Anyway tagged this thread for future updates!

[+Defender_2600]

Currently Lance at Video 61 is producing and selling the carts for us.

http://members.tcq.n...eo61/index.html

 

 

 

I would need to see how it would be possible to do line drawing to be able to port games that used line drawing like Tempest, Missile Command, BattleZone.

 

I am conisidering being just a co-programmer if someone wants to take up figuring and writing some of the graphics core routines. Saving the whole screen as a bitmap image is not practical even on 1 megabyte cartridge. That is If we want to do lane highlighting.

 

Not sure if we can include it with a POKEY chip and do the Tempest 2000 sound tracks and Sound Sample Playback. The Sample Playback is also very CPU instensive. I had to load all the samples into RAM before playing them back because it would had to do a bank switch for every 4 bits played over 4000 times per second. Are there any other sound chips that can be put onto a 7800 cartridge?

 

Hi,

have you considered the 7800 Expansion Module?

 

• 128K of Game Memory
  
• Poke Audio Processor
  
• Yamaha Audio Processor
  
• High Score Capability
  
• Keyboard Expansion Port (For use with XEGS compatible keyboards)
  
• Atari SIO compatible peripheral port
  
• Footprint to allow user added PIA chip for SIO port functionality.
  

 

http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/consoles/7800/expansion/

[peteym5]

That looks like an interesting MOD and would help with what I need to make Tempest Work. Sound is pretty straight forward. Would have alter RMT to work from the POKEY locations there.

[Jaynz]

I'm going to be in the unpopular minority here, probably, but I wouldn't make Tempest require the XM, since there's little to really require it. ("Super Tempest" on the other hand, a more definate maybe.) The 7800 is really about bringing the early 1980s arcade at home, so no need for overkilling it for this particular game. Get Tempest itself out the door for the 7800, and then make the XM version with all the extra goodies.

[+Mitch]

In case you hadn't seen it, there is this: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/159728-7800-tempest/

 

Mitch

[peteym5]

I downloaded what GroovyBee had there and it didn't do much. Does not look complete and did look like he was doing it with just 10 lanes. I am looking to making it variable lane. I am not going to disclose any details about a possible 2nd Tempest game on the 8-bit. Some things are still undecided, along if and when it will go onto market. However I can say I did tinker with my original programming to see what else is possible, like having different webs that have more or less lanes. To do more shapes and such.

 

Looks like all his posts were around spring of 2010 and suddenly stopped. Normally is an indication it was put aside or something. After Tempest Xtreem was done, KJMANN12 did talk to a few people interested in doing a 7800 version.

 

I did see it has been mentioned something about 16K RAM mapped on the cartridge, and is something I also need to make the webs and port over the line drawing routines.

Edited April 12, 2013 by peteym5

[YANDMAN]

Isn't Groovy Bee already working on Tempest on the Xm, I'm sure its on his page and i spoke to him about it some six months ago, If it isn't him then somebody definitely is and there is already a part working version available, Either way i hope one of you great programmers does this as i love the game and would buy a cartridge for sure.

[peteym5]

IF someone is taking on this project, maybe I will consider porting my other project from the 8-bit. That is Venture. Now this can be done with tiled graphics and does not require line drawing in the same way Tempest does. Sprites and Walls can be multicolored.

 

A third project I have been working on is a room by room style RPG / Adventure type game that is derived from the programming I did for Venture. Goes room by room like the 2600 Adventure or NES Zelda 1, and has over 200 rooms. That is also doable on the 7800.

[Synthpopalooza]

Question: Is it possible to use DLI's on the 7800?

 

That is: Have character set changes every three lines, use several font changes to buld a bitmap screen (on Atari 8-bit, 8 fonts covers a 192 scanline screen in normal mode), then POKE to the font memory to draw your lines on screen? That way your bitmap would be ordered more like a Commodore 64 bitmap. It would require about 8k for all your font data. You could also use sprites to shore up parts of the display.

[kenfused]

Question: Is it possible to use DLI's on the 7800?

 

That is: Have character set changes every three lines, use several font changes to buld a bitmap screen (on Atari 8-bit, 8 fonts covers a 192 scanline screen in normal mode), then POKE to the font memory to draw your lines on screen? That way your bitmap would be ordered more like a Commodore 64 bitmap. It would require about 8k for all your font data. You could also use sprites to shore up parts of the display.

 

Yes. You would still need extra RAM in the the cart (or XM) since there is only 4K RAM in the system. But there is little need to do that since you can just put bitmap screen into memory (RAM for what you need to change, ROM for what you don't) which requires less DMA and less memory than indirect (font/tile) mode since you won't need to character maps and Maria won't have to fetch them. You still would need more RAM to have a full screen bitmap too.

Edited May 1, 2013 by kenfused

[EricBall]

Question: Is it possible to use DLI's on the 7800?

Yes & no. The 7800 Maria GPU is very different from the A8 ANTIC/GTIA. So while the 7800 has a display list interrupt, it doesn't get used for the same purpose as the A8. See https://sites.google.com/site/atari7800wiki/atari-5200 and https://sites.google.com/site/atari7800wiki/graphics-programming/display-list-interrupts for a more detailed explanation.

[vacuumnoise]

I would certainly be in line for a cart.

 

 

me 2

 

would love to see Tempest on the 7800!

[Lynxpro]

For those of you that don't know me. I am the programmer for Tempest Xtreem that is available on the Atari 8-Bit. [400/800,XL,XE]

 

I did Tempest Xtreem using the 8-bits graphics modes that supports line drawing on a 8K screen in RAM. All the points are saved and lines drawn between them. I know the 7800 doesn't have that, only 4K ram available. I am thinking of doing it with a character [custom font] mapped screen. Font would contain some of the possible line angles. Every 15 degrees or something. I have almost 0 7800 graphics programming knowlege. I am just fluent with the 6502, ANTIC, GTIA, POKEY. I need to look at some samples on how screens and sprites are set up.

 

I wish I would've seen this thread 2+ years ago!

 

I don't want to dissuade anyone from developing for the 7800 but there are plenty of Team 5200 members who'd love a chance to run your awesome Tempest Xtreem on the good ol' 5200. You'd have to rewrite the memory addresses and such and probably use one of those 512K ROM PCBs - or one of CPUWiz's awesome wares - but it would be impressive and I'm sure AtariAge - or Video 61 - would sell at least as many as 5200 Tempest has already sold. Sal was receptive to the idea when it was mentioned at the Davis Atari Party earlier this year but my impression was he wouldn't be working on it himself.

 

By the way, Keithen Hayenga [original Atari Inc. programmer of 5200 Tempest] was in attendance at said Davis Atari Party and he said he was a fan of both Jeff Minter's Tempest 2000 and your Tempest Xtreem!

 

Regardless of the 5200, would it be possible to add Trak-Ball support to Tempest Xtreem or is the kernel too CPU intense as it is? Similarly, it seems that all of the non-Jaguar Atari platforms lack a decent rotary controller option but implementing that option in the code would be pretty cool nonetheless.

 

And what amazes me about the posts in this thread is the talk about adding YM2151 support to any proposed 7800 version. Doesn't the original A8 version already support Dual POKEYs for stereo goodness?

[peteym5]

Myself, Sal, and Video61 had been involved in making a sequel to Tempest Xtreem called Tempest Elite. This game had many more webs, improvements on animations. It was "Multi Hardware" meaning it was to take advantage of hardware mods like VBXE, Dual Pokey, Trackball, Driving, and Paddle controllers. Unfortunately Sal had health problems and dropped out of my Atari circle of developers and has caused delays in getting this together.

 

One issue is we would need a 128K or larger bank switching cartridge to do a 5200 port. I know one that exists, but the person making them is slow on populating the boards and getting a few of them to us.

[Lynxpro]

Myself, Sal, and Video61 had been involved in making a sequel to Tempest Xtreem called Tempest Elite. This game had many more webs, improvements on animations. It was "Multi Hardware" meaning it was to take advantage of hardware mods like VBXE, Dual Pokey, Trackball, Driving, and Paddle controllers. Unfortunately Sal had health problems and dropped out of my Atari circle of developers and has caused delays in getting this together.

 

One issue is we would need a 128K or larger bank switching cartridge to do a 5200 port. I know one that exists, but the person making them is slow on populating the boards and getting a few of them to us.

 

May I just say that's flippin' awesome?!

 

And here I thought the 5200's 16K RAM was an issue…although if I remember correctly, the cart can have 32K RAM too. I don't know about your working or casual relationships with other AtariAge users but CPUWiz probably has PCBs that might work. And if you run into bankswitching issues, Tep392 and Playsoft both seem to be quite the pros at A8-to-5200 conversions. As for VBXE and Dual POKEY, the 5200 can do those too. Trak-Ball and Paddles go without saying, although I'm unaware of a DC/Rotary controller mod on the 5200 side yet.

 

Oh man, Dan Kramer would be tickled pink to see this use the CX-53. Although using the CX-22 or CX-80 on A8 would also definitely make him happy.