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#326 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:33 AM

Wow you miss the advantages of the SAMS totally.

Example I can put Bank 27 at >2000 and Bank 27 at >C000 and whatever I put or change does the same then to either Bank at same time.

This is great for games as you can keep a copy of what changed and reset back with this feature.

 

Also using >5000 to >5FFF would kill a future 16 Meg version of SAMS being worked on now.

 

You did not mention that the SAMS is currently 1 Meg now. And your 32K version is only 32K, that's it 32K



#327 apersson850 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:51 AM

Yes, of course, the internal 64 K RAM I have is for a different purpose.

When I stated that it's the best design I've seen so far, I meant among internal-to-console modifications. Since it covers the address space of the CPU, and only that, it's limited to 64 K RAM. But there it allows overlaying existing memory as well as providing a standard RAM expansion, and all this on a 16-bit bus.

 

The SAMS design is instead good at providing an almost unlimited amount of memory (at least seen from the 99/4A horizon), but available on the slower 8-bit bus.

 

The good thing is that my internal memory expansion does allow for disabling itself, so the console can see the external memory expansion. Thus it could co-exist with the SAMS card. Can I buy a SAMS today?


Edited by apersson850, Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:54 AM.

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#328 Lee Stewart OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:28 AM

Yes, of course, the internal 64 K RAM I have is for a different purpose.

When I stated that it's the best design I've seen so far, I meant among internal-to-console modifications. Since it covers the address space of the CPU, and only that, it's limited to 64 K RAM. But there it allows overlaying existing memory as well as providing a standard RAM expansion, and all this on a 16-bit bus.

 

The SAMS design is instead good at providing an almost unlimited amount of memory (at least seen from the 99/4A horizon), but available on the slower 8-bit bus.

 

The good thing is that my internal memory expansion does allow for disabling itself, so the console can see the external memory expansion. Thus it could co-exist with the SAMS card. Can I buy a SAMS today?

 

arcadeshopper has the bare boards on his website, though currently out of stock.

 

...lee


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#329 apersson850 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:02 AM

OK, and then you have to find the parts to populate the currently non-existing board.

Now I know. Thank you.

 

Many years ago, I had a software idea which I had to abandon due to too little RAM in my machine. In spite of it having 172 K RAM, which was rather a lot in the mid 80's. I would have needed say 256 K RAM or something to make that software feasible. It did run, but untolerably slow due to all the file access I had to do instead.


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#330 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:39 AM

 

Also using >5000 to >5FFF would kill a future 16 Meg version of SAMS being worked on now.

 

Really?  I was unaware of that.  My 1 meg card never seems to get any use, so cannot imagine ever needing a 16 meg card.



#331 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:31 AM

 

Really?  I was unaware of that.  My 1 meg card never seems to get any use, so cannot imagine ever needing a 16 meg card.

I am really freaked out that no one but a few of us has made games using the SAMS!!!!

 

I mean put a 692K map you want to scroll in like I did with my game IN THE DARK but do a better job.

 

I could have made the game IN THE DARK 900K but that seemed overkill.

 

Also applications like Editor Assembler, Word Processor or even someone take advantage of C with the SAMS.



#332 Asmusr OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:14 AM

Is is law of nature that any thread will eventually turn into a discussion for or against SAMS, GPL or  F18A?  :)



#333 mizapf OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:18 AM

Something similar to Godwin's Law ... maybe we should call it Rasmus' Law? :)



#334 matthew180 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:47 PM

...

Personally, as far as we limit ourselves to memory expansions built inside the console, I think my design is superior to everything else I've seen.

...

 

Did I miss a thread where you talk about this, show photos, details about the mod, etc.?  It would be interesting to know more about your mods (in a new thread so we can return this one to its topic).  Also, it seems you would probably win the "most modded console" contest (another thread that was current a few weeks ago).

 

I am really freaked out that no one but a few of us has made games using the SAMS!!!!

...

 

Yup, it is called *vaporware*.  No matter what people say they want, new expansion hardware will never get used if existing software cannot take advantage of it.  No one will ever write a game that requires the SAMS because "not everyone has (or had back in the day) a SAMS", and some poor sap just returning to the hobby without a SAMS would not be able to enjoy the new SAMS-only game...  Sorry, my pessimism is showing.

 

Is is law of nature that any thread will eventually turn into a discussion for or against SAMS, GPL or  F18A?  :)

 

Heh, it certainly seems like it.  Would you stop posting such controversial topics. ;)   Don't you know you can't do more than four rows of smooth scrolling on a stock 9918A!?  And that is only possible with a special loop running in scratch pad RAM. :P



#335 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:25 PM

I am really freaked out that no one but a few of us has made games using the SAMS!!!!

 

In some ways it makes sense, I'll try to explain my thinking (which may be wrong) on this one...

 

1) Since the TI-99/4A no longer qualifies as peoples 'main computer', it's probably not a priority issue for limited use.

 

2) When people write programs, it's either for themselves (owners), or for a 'wider audience'.

    Who wants to write something that will get little use?

 

3) Programmers have lives (limited time), a program to fill up a card that big would take some serious coding,

    thus a lot of time and effort.

 

4) Cost to benefit ratio.  How much will you spend for a card with no programs that exploit it?

    How long are you willing to wait for the chance that one will ever be developed?

 

Sadly, with the above taken together as a whole, even the best ideas can sometimes fall short of expectations.

 

 

Is is law of nature that any thread will eventually turn into a discussion for or against SAMS, GPL or  F18A?  icon_smile.gif

 

I hope not!  I like the SAMS & F18A and would dearly love to see more written for both of them too.  I can envision GPL making a limited comeback with the advent of the FinalGROM 99.  

 

While the concept of something can be totally awesome, one needs to take into account the market, factoring for consumer psychology, need and use for a product.

 

With this all said, I have to stress that this is just my personal opinion, I could be totally off-base here and other people may disagree.



#336 apersson850 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:42 PM

 

It would be interesting to know more about your mods (in a new thread so we can return this one to its topic).

Here is a thread.



#337 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:37 AM

Yup, it is called *vaporware*.  No matter what people say they want, new expansion hardware will never get used if existing software cannot take advantage of it.  No one will ever write a game that requires the SAMS because "not everyone has (or had back in the day) a SAMS", and some poor sap just returning to the hobby without a SAMS would not be able to enjoy the new SAMS-only game...  Sorry, my pessimism is showing.

 

So says the guy that makes hardware and does vaporware exist for it? Or is it being supported by people?

This would be talking out of each side of mouth at same time....



#338 gfreige OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:00 PM

Isn't rasmus writing a SAMS game?

I've read some time ago Rasmus was writing a game and storing all the level data in SAMS

I can't remember the game name.

 

Cheers


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#339 chue OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:03 PM

OK OK we're off topic here, but I thought I'd add my 2 cents...

 

From an end user perspective, the SAMS is a big hurdle to overcome.  You have to get a giant, expensive, rare expansion box.  I don't have the room for it.  Then you have to get another rare item, the SAMS.

 

From a developer perspective, there's this thing called the FinalGROM coming that has bankable RAM and ROM.  I think I'd rather target that thing, since it will be widely available, and widely owned.  True you are banking in 4K of RAM/ ROM, but you have a ton of both to work with.  Level data in a game?  512K or 1MB of TOTAL ROM will be plenty!  (That reminds me of the classic "we'll never need more than 640K of RAM" line.)

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention the 32K sidecar - I think the sidecar plus the FinalGROM will be a great development target.


Edited by chue, Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:37 PM.


#340 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:16 AM

Just a point in fact: More RAM is much better then More ROM. RAM IS USABLE, ROM IS FIXED!



#341 Asmusr OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:03 AM

Just a point in fact: More RAM is much better then More ROM. RAM IS USABLE, ROM IS FIXED!

 

Indeed. A cartridge with lots of RAM is much more versatile than a cartridge with lots of ROM. Good thing we will have the former soon.  ;)



#342 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:00 PM

1 Meg of RAM or 4 Meg of RAM?


Edited by RXB, Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:01 PM.


#343 Asmusr OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:22 PM

1 Meg of RAM or 4 Meg of RAM?

 

1 Meg.



#344 Vorticon OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:32 AM

 

In some ways it makes sense, I'll try to explain my thinking (which may be wrong) on this one...

 

2) When people write programs, it's either for themselves (owners), or for a 'wider audience'.

    Who wants to write something that will get little use?

 

 

Now wait a minute! That's pretty much what I do all the time!!!  :grin:



#345 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:44 AM

Well SAMS is on every emulator made that I know off: Win99, Classic99, MESS, and  PC99.

 

What Emulators support the new RAM Carts?


Edited by RXB, Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:44 AM.


#346 chue OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:24 PM

Well SAMS is on every emulator made that I know off: Win99, Classic99, MESS, and  PC99.

 

What Emulators support the new RAM Carts?

 

Fair enough, but at some point I would want to test on real hardware.

 

Since the FinalGROM is still in development, I doubt any emulators have support.  They all have cart ROM bankswitching support though, and that at least for now is good enough for me.


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#347 Ksarul OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:00 AM

@apersson850, on the SAMS, I did a new run of them last year to ensure that this interesting piece of hardware remained available. I still have one or two of that lot left--and will make more once they are gone. I'm still working on debugging a version of the board that will support 4M of memory--but even if that never comes to pass, I will keep the 1M version available for as long as there is any kind of demand for a SAMS card. At the current prices, they are cheaper than a used 32K PEB card on eBay.



#348 apersson850 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:51 PM

Nice to know. I'm not that much into using simulators/emulators, since I'm of the opinion that the reason for using the TI 99/4A is to use it for fun. And to me, "fun" involves both software and hardware. Thus I prefer the real hardware, and that's why I have some of my own ideas built into my TI as well. There was no real-time clock available on the market when I built mine, for example, and I still don't think there's any general I/O board. Mine has 40 inputs and 32 outputs, plus eight analog input channels.

 

But now I'll re-fix my own RAM disk for the p-system, then see if I can get that old Horizon RAMdisk into the living crowd again, and if so, see if I can integrate that too in the Pascal environment. It should work.


Edited by apersson850, Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:53 PM.






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