Jump to content

Photo

Adapter to Use Atari Joysticks on Intellivision

intellivision

125 replies to this topic

#101 GroovyBee OFFLINE  

GroovyBee

    Games Developer

  • 9,821 posts
  • Busy bee!
  • Location:England

Posted Sun May 19, 2013 4:21 PM

:cool: Glad you got the info you wanted.

#102 pimpmaul69 OFFLINE  

pimpmaul69

    River Patroller

  • 4,856 posts
  • INTV Brotherhood Technician
  • Location:Colorado

Posted Sun May 19, 2013 7:49 PM

I'm not sure my scope is fast enough. With input on channel 1 and output on channel 2. I press button on scope and controller at the same time. I position ch1 and ch2 down at 10us and the lines look like the same line. There is no lag when playing and I'm thinking the nice folks at Altera would not be making up 10ns latency.

If someone else knows how to setup the Rigol DS1102E scope to get a better measurement let me know.

sweet scope you got there. i lost every ebay bid i ever bid to get one. all my scopes are old ones. still do the job though. these days i mostly use them to test vector arcade games and play tennis for two. one day i will get around to making a composite to xyz circuit.dont ask me why but i have this urge to play retro games on an old oscilloscope. i also was gonna make an xyz paddle and ball on a chip but if i make the composite to xyz then i can hook up my odyssey 3000 or my many other variations anyways.

Edited by pimpmaul69, Sun May 19, 2013 7:52 PM.


#103 grips03 OFFLINE  

grips03

    River Patroller

  • 3,760 posts
  • Location:New England

Posted Sun May 19, 2013 9:45 PM

Thanks, I just got it a few months back. I use to have this old nano type one with a mega small screen for like $100, but it was just so hard to use. This one is much nicer, but it costs more.

I'm glad to see the delay is 15ns this way no one will have lag type issue with the controller / adapter thing I'm making.

Put the arcade star wars on a Vectrex X-Y screen :)

Edited by grips03, Sun May 19, 2013 9:51 PM.


#104 grips03 OFFLINE  

grips03

    River Patroller

  • 3,760 posts
  • Location:New England

Posted Tue May 21, 2013 6:02 PM

How would people like to power the controller?

Option 1
5v AC adapter
http://www.adafruit.com/products/276

with

2.1mm jack on the controller
http://www.adafruit.com/products/610

or

Option 2
add 2.1mm plug on their console - to be installed by end user or 3rd party
http://www.adafruit.com/products/610

with

controller would then have the following hard wired
http://www.adafruit.com/products/327

Edited by grips03, Tue May 21, 2013 6:10 PM.


#105 pimpmaul69 OFFLINE  

pimpmaul69

    River Patroller

  • 4,856 posts
  • INTV Brotherhood Technician
  • Location:Colorado

Posted Tue May 21, 2013 11:14 PM

Thanks, I just got it a few months back. I use to have this old nano type one with a mega small screen for like $100, but it was just so hard to use. This one is much nicer, but it costs more.

I'm glad to see the delay is 15ns this way no one will have lag type issue with the controller / adapter thing I'm making.

Put the arcade star wars on a Vectrex X-Y screen :)

only problem with that is the vectrex monitor is slow compared to an arcade vector monitor. also scores are kinda skewed on the vectrex monitor with some games. but i will say it is cool as hell to do. have you done it yet?

#106 grips03 OFFLINE  

grips03

    River Patroller

  • 3,760 posts
  • Location:New England

Posted Wed May 22, 2013 7:11 AM

I have not. The audio in that game is amazing.

#107 pimpmaul69 OFFLINE  

pimpmaul69

    River Patroller

  • 4,856 posts
  • INTV Brotherhood Technician
  • Location:Colorado

Posted Wed May 22, 2013 8:54 PM

I have not. The audio in that game is amazing.

i wish someone like john dondzila had made a homebrew version of that and a complete tempest game

#108 grips03 OFFLINE  

grips03

    River Patroller

  • 3,760 posts
  • Location:New England

Posted Wed May 22, 2013 8:57 PM

there is that guy in Texas or somewhere that put all those vector arcade games on single board. So you buy one cabinet and you get a bunch of the old vector games.

#109 pimpmaul69 OFFLINE  

pimpmaul69

    River Patroller

  • 4,856 posts
  • INTV Brotherhood Technician
  • Location:Colorado

Posted Wed May 22, 2013 9:01 PM

there is that guy in Texas or somewhere that put all those vector arcade games on single board. So you buy one cabinet and you get a bunch of the old vector games.

WHAAAA???? oh please do tell...

#110 grips03 OFFLINE  

grips03

    River Patroller

  • 3,760 posts
  • Location:New England

Posted Wed May 22, 2013 9:39 PM

http://www.vector-labs.com

mostly found on http://forums.arcade-museum.com

#111 pimpmaul69 OFFLINE  

pimpmaul69

    River Patroller

  • 4,856 posts
  • INTV Brotherhood Technician
  • Location:Colorado

Posted Wed May 22, 2013 10:01 PM

http://www.vector-labs.com

mostly found on http://forums.arcade-museum.com

cool thanks. i also found out john dondzila did make a star wars game on vectrex called star fire spirits

#112 JohnPCAE OFFLINE  

JohnPCAE

    Moonsweeper

  • 480 posts

Posted Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:21 PM

I designed a case for my passive keypad board design that should be usable with any controller if you have a 9-pin Y-cable (see posts #81 and #82 for board details). I haven't sent any out to be made, so build them at your own risk, but I'm including the FreeCAD source file as well as the .STL files for anyone who wants to play with it.

http://www.mediafire...tyKeypad_v1.zip

Edit: I ordered a set from Shapeways in "white, strong and flexible, polished". The total with shipping was about $50. We'll see how it turns out... 8)

Attached Thumbnails

  • IntyKeypad_1.png
  • IntyKeypad_2.png

Edited by JohnPCAE, Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:32 PM.


#113 Serious OFFLINE  

Serious

    Dragonstomper

  • 963 posts
  • WTB: Manuals for 2600 Espial and Stronghold
  • Location:Salt Lake City

Posted Thu Aug 1, 2013 8:44 PM

Just found this thread.

If it isn't too late to get in on this.. I am interested, but will the power to that controller be coming in as DC?

I apologize if this is a stupid question, but AC going into a device that I'd be holding in my lap is kinda scary for some reason..

#114 grips03 OFFLINE  

grips03

    River Patroller

  • 3,760 posts
  • Location:New England

Posted Thu Aug 1, 2013 8:52 PM

Just found this thread.

If it isn't too late to get in on this.. I am interested, but will the power to that controller be coming in as DC?

I apologize if this is a stupid question, but AC going into a device that I'd be holding in my lap is kinda scary for some reason..


which controller?
JohnPCAE's design is passive using custom DPST pcb pad for SMS controller
the one I'm making will be battery powered

#115 Serious OFFLINE  

Serious

    Dragonstomper

  • 963 posts
  • WTB: Manuals for 2600 Espial and Stronghold
  • Location:Salt Lake City

Posted Thu Aug 1, 2013 9:05 PM

which controller?
JohnPCAE's design is passive using custom DPST pcb pad for SMS controller
the one I'm making will be battery powered


Sorry for not being clear. I was asking about your INTV arcade stick.

If it is battery powered, I'd like to get in on this if it isn't too late.

This is an NeoGeoX 8-way stick with keypad, correct?

(Apologies if this has all been stated previously, but it seems like I'm only seeing half of the conversation in this thread, so I'm a little unclear.)

#116 grips03 OFFLINE  

grips03

    River Patroller

  • 3,760 posts
  • Location:New England

Posted Thu Aug 1, 2013 9:16 PM

Sorry for not being clear. I was asking about your INTV arcade stick.

If it is battery powered, I'd like to get in on this if it isn't too late.

This is an NeoGeoX 8-way stick with keypad, correct?

(Apologies if this has all been stated previously, but it seems like I'm only seeing half of the conversation in this thread, so I'm a little unclear.)


I can add you to the back order list. It does have 4 or 8 way gate. It has keypad too.
I've switched to battery vs AC adapter as two cords did annoying after a while.

http://atariage.com/...-interest-list/

#117 Serious OFFLINE  

Serious

    Dragonstomper

  • 963 posts
  • WTB: Manuals for 2600 Espial and Stronghold
  • Location:Salt Lake City

Posted Thu Aug 1, 2013 9:21 PM

Yep, please put me down for one. I would be delighted to have one, if I were to get so lucky.

Thanks

#118 grips03 OFFLINE  

grips03

    River Patroller

  • 3,760 posts
  • Location:New England

Posted Thu Aug 1, 2013 9:37 PM

Yep, please put me down for one. I would be delighted to have one, if I were to get so lucky.

Thanks


Plan is to first ten out and then start on the back order. I keep messing up the PCBs (3 week wait per PCB, I'm on my 3rd or 5th PCB depending on how you look at it) and I keep switching CPLDs (I think I'm on my 4th) and power (I've tried AC, 1xAA, 2xAA, going to try 9V and 3xAA in next couple of weeks), it takes me forever to get it right :(

#119 nathanallan OFFLINE  

nathanallan

    Quadrunner

  • 5,640 posts
  • Location:Nashville, TN

Posted Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:11 PM

I designed a case for my passive keypad board design that should be usable with any controller if you have a 9-pin Y-cable (see posts #81 and #82 for board details). I haven't sent any out to be made, so build them at your own risk, but I'm including the FreeCAD source file as well as the .STL files for anyone who wants to play with it.

http://www.mediafire...tyKeypad_v1.zip

Edit: I ordered a set from Shapeways in "white, strong and flexible, polished". The total with shipping was about $50. We'll see how it turns out... 8)

Wait, you ordered that for $50?? I have a printer and I can make the same thing, especially since there is an already done .stl file. I'd have done it for less than $50. 



#120 keithbk OFFLINE  

keithbk

    Chopper Commander

  • 213 posts

Posted Mon Jun 9, 2014 1:15 PM

I posted this elsewhere, but here was my thought...

 

If you were going to make an adapter for the Intellivision that would work with an existing Atari 2600 joystick, you would need to make it a splitter (goes into one port and splits for 2 accessories).

 

On one end, you would hook up your joystick and this would function in place of the thumb control and primary firing button. On the split, you would allow the original keypad to hook up.

 

This way, you could easily switch between pad and joystick mid-game by having both the pad and joystick mapped properly to the different ends of the splitter.



#121 tripletopper OFFLINE  

tripletopper

    Moonsweeper

  • 293 posts

Posted Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:03 PM

GoldenShop.com.hk and goldenshop.com has lots of Playstation to (fill in the blank) adapters.   Maybe a Playstation to Intellivision adapter would be good.   It needs an "original/Flashback" switch, because Flashback is reversed and I got my Intellivision 1 "Flashback controller modded".   I just ordered and did it myself.   This was in hopes of attaching a fight stick to the Intellivision.  I think only two games, Vectron and the second version of Auto Racing, is rendered totally unplayable by the 8 way controller.   Some games may be altered a little, like fine dodging would be trickier, but most games would be HELPED with an 8-way switchable to a 4 way controller.  While we're at it a Playstation to Colecovision adapter, a PS-> 5200, a PS->7800, a PS-> Jaguar, and a PS-> Astrocade just for fight sticks, (no games that use paddles).  IF you can save significant money off hiring someone to pad hack each respective controller.

 

Some may want PS-> Vectrex, PS-> Channel F, and PS-> CD-i and I would say PS-> Odyssey 2 and PS-> Arcadia, except most of the first, and all of the second, don't have detachable controllers, so until a) someone cares enough, which we may find of Odyssey 2, but is extremely hard to find for an Arcadia, (I own an Arcadia.  Found it plus 7 cartridges for $35.00 guaranteed working from a used media store, I got 14 of the 21 games ever made, and of those 14, there are like 0 I'd go to voluntarily, and would only go to if someone challenges me on a back-to-back twitch streams) and b) someone is able to make such an adapter would make an adapter that convert hard wired sticks to DB9s or something like that, and then from there go into a PS controller.

 

As for PS->CV, most games can run on either regular or Super Action controllers, but some games only work on SA. Other games, like The Activision Decathlon and Q*Bert's Qubes REQUIRE a Standard CV joystick.  they don't run right on Super Action controllers.

 

Finally there needs to be a DB9 (or for the 5200) DB15 adapter for using simultaneous keypad action.   Also, it could work with both digital and analog controls since the PS Dual Shock 1 and PS2 dual Shock 2 has both analog and digital directions,  the 5200 can even have twin analog/twin digital for Robotron and Space Dungeon outputting to 2 separate 5200 ports.



#122 mr_me OFFLINE  

mr_me

    River Patroller

  • 3,593 posts
  • Location:Ontario

Posted Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:53 AM

Auto Racing is actually not bad with an 8-way dpad. You can make tight turns without the risk of oversteering. That's the more common version with "realistic" right/left steering. An analog stick could work with some 16-way games; but it would have to be a powered adapter which is not ideal. Four-way and 2-way games work well with the Intellivision disc so its a matter of preference. The only game that might be helped with an 8-way dpad might be Snafu. The problem for me, is that modern controllers are left handed and I'm use to working the disc with my right thumb.

Edited by mr_me, Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:35 AM.


#123 tripletopper OFFLINE  

tripletopper

    Moonsweeper

  • 293 posts

Posted Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:27 PM

Auto Racing is actually not bad with an 8-way dpad. You can make tight turns without the risk of oversteering. That's the more common version with "realistic" right/left steering. An analog stick could work with some 16-way games; but it would have to be a powered adapter which is not ideal. Four-way and 2-way games work well with the Intellivision disc so its a matter of preference. The only game that might be helped with an 8-way dpad might be Snafu. The problem for me, is that modern controllers are left handed and I'm use to working the disc with my right thumb.

 

I agree about the right handed solution.

 

Also find the thing that would be most useful to most people.   A Genesis controller would not work because it, as well as Atari, Coleco, Astrocade, Commodore, SMS) assume one bit is on or off for each cardinal, and diagonals are actuated by pressing in between the cardinals, while the INTV joystick system uses 5 pins for 12 keypad buttons and 16 directions.   One pin controls whether it's a direcitonal movement, or a keypad press is detected.   If the frame is in D-pad mode, then there is a default cardinal direction that's assume if the d-pad pin is on and none of the directional keys are on.   One pin adds 180 degrees, one pin adds 90 degrees in one direction, one pins adds 45 degree angles in that game direction, and one pin adds 22.5 degrees.   It's 16-direction and 1 degree of sensitivity. (no pressure on the pad is assumed when the key bit is used, is considered a keypad press of null if neither the keypad or stick are pressed.   A funny thing about the controller, you can't press a keypad button and a joypad direction together without getting unpredictable results.   12 of the remaining 15 combinations are a key each, one extra 4-bit setting is a reserved "pause setting" by pressing 2 keys simultaneously.  (a specific 2, I never owned the INTV as a kid so I don't know which 2.  Until I know, I assume just empty the body's septic tank before I play a long session.)   And there's 2 other combinations reserved for other keypad combos.

 

I'm looking for someone to wire a DB25 pin adapter to it.   I would use a standard fight DB15, except for 2 factors. The first is the DB15 does not accommodate 8 main fight buttons, 4 directions, 3 aux buttons, a ground, and a voltage, and the second is every system with a keypad can have a pin reserved for an individual number keypad press.  Intv has 12 keys, and because a fight stick would not be right for games that require 16 ways, but be better with 8-way, 4 way, and 2 way games, 4 cardinals,   and 3 buttons=19 independent keys, (+2 for voltage and ground=21)  Coleco Super action has 12 keypad, plus 4 action, 2 roller directions that could be "buttonized" (The roller works as 2 different buttons on a Sega Genesis 3 button game. not a very accurate pair of buttons, but two nonetheless.) + 4 directions, making 24 when you add one for voltage and one for ground.  5200 is analog so that's a different beast, and the Jaguar has 12 keys, 4 directions, 3 action buttons, and 2 aux buttons, plus ground and voltage makes 23.  So a DB 25 would work for wiring each individual controller.   If the DB25 standard was used for a fight stick, then you have 8 buttons, 4 directions, 3 aux buttons, a ground and voltage, and you have room for 8 more pins.  May I suggest sending analog sticks as 4 cardinals apiece in a digital manner so that the only thing not wired are the L3 and R3.  I don't know of any games that work well with a fight stick requiring L3 and R3, but Super Smash Bros can use the analogs as movement and smash stick.

 

What about the Atari Jaguar Pro Controller?  Funny thing... L, R, Z, Y, and X are mapped to 1, 3, 4, 5, and 6 respectively.  So save that Jaguar Pro pad for games you want pads, and pad-hack a standard Jag pad.  It's a lot cheaper fight stick solution.

 

The biggest trick is getting 4 discrete cardinals mapped to 8 pressure sensors on INTV because you'll have to do something for diagonals, where N+E = some combination of joystick press existence, +180, +90, and +45   Cardinals are easy, just wire north to north, the 2 tricks are diagonals being a combination of 2 cardinals, and being careful to accidentally not actuating 2 at once, or else you have unpredictable results.

 

That requires some engineering, converting 2 independent cardinals to 8 discrete, non-simultaneous pressings.  I haven't the foggiest, but I laid down the first couple clues in the roadmap.



#124 mr_me OFFLINE  

mr_me

    River Patroller

  • 3,593 posts
  • Location:Ontario

Posted Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:49 AM

There's no pin that toggles direction/keypad. Electrically the Intellivision disc is not unlike an Atari joystick or sega d-pad. There are four pins, one each for the four cardinal directions. Like an Atari joystick or dpad, a diagonal direction comes from combining two pins together. If adapting an atari joystick or dpad you will get a correct diagonal for some games. Games that only use four or two directions should all work correctly. The side buttons need diodes to work properly when adapting an Atari/Sega controller.

Edited by mr_me, Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:59 AM.


#125 tripletopper OFFLINE  

tripletopper

    Moonsweeper

  • 293 posts

Posted Sat May 5, 2018 8:17 PM

Actually, the system I described is TOO simple:  Here's my evidence that an Intellivision controller follows a logic even weirder than I suggest and why using a 2600 controller would not work without some modification.

 

I've explained a system that could use 3 independent buttons, and 5 pins to cover 16 ways and 12 keypad buttons, and 3 dual keypad combinations, one of them is Pause, and one combination for neutral.   Apparently there are NO independent controls, no single pin is reserved for any button, joypad direction, or keypad press.  All are interrelated to each other.   Apparently, pressing ANY 2 controls would mess it up and come up with unpredictable results. 

 

Also if you take apart the controller, there are 16 separate actuators for the 16 separate directions, which makes pad hacking tough, because NE <> N + E







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: intellivision

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users