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Altirra 2.30 released


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#101 NSonic OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 6, 2013 12:09 PM

First of all greetings to all.
This later the option to record tape as Atari800?
And with Turbo system?
Thanks: D


#102 morelenmir OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 6, 2013 2:50 PM

Hey NSonic!!! Good to see a fellow new poster on the board!

I am sure Phaeron will have something to say about this, but... I don't think a 1010 emulator is very likely to appear... Phaeron and cassette tapes don't exactly see eye to eye I seem to recall!

Oddly enough it was one of the first features I suggest he add also!

#103 drac030 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 6, 2013 4:07 PM

65C816-equipped Ataris aren't that common, so I'm not sure there's much of a convention at all. Nevertheless, it's easy to emulate both since Altirra uses two-level page tables for '816 mode, so I've just split the None option into 16-bit and 24-bit addressing modes.


That solution is okay, and it certainly will be useful to debug/patch software, so it is worth retaining in any case. You're right saying that 65C816 Ataris are rather scarce. Therefore there is no matter of a convention, just a matter of likeliness: I don't think it is likely to meet a 65C816 Atari with 24-bit address bus and no high memory at the same time.

Here's why: 65C816 address bus is multiplexed, you get 24 bits of an address and 8 bits of data on 24 (16+8) wires. Normally, when you want to remove 6502 and place 65C816 instead, a very simple circuitry allows you do to that, but the address bus remains 16-bit. This is called FTe Sweet 16 or Simple 65C816 Processor Adapter etc. and such.

When you want 24-bit address bus, you have to build a more complex circuitry, and the only point in building such one I can imagine is that you also want to add high memory. There is no point in added effort, when you don't want the high RAM - in such a case you rather avoid all the hassle, drop the address decoder altogether and stick to 16-bit address bus.

This is why I think that it is rather unlikely to meet such memory configuration in a real machine. But of course, "unlikely" does not mean "impossible".

Edited by drac030, Thu Jun 6, 2013 4:08 PM.


#104 w1k OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jun 9, 2013 4:40 AM

:(

Attached Thumbnails

  • file.jpg

Attached Files


Edited by w1k, Sun Jun 9, 2013 4:41 AM.


#105 Mclaneinc OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jun 9, 2013 5:29 AM

Vast info there...Not..

When I try and copy files off that disk it says the structure is corrupt...

What is the program supposed to do or is this a turbo tape rom thing that you know isn't part of Altirra?

#106 AtariGeezer ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Jun 9, 2013 7:00 AM

The VTOC on that ATR is wiped, but the file sector links are still valid.
Looks like it needs that Turbo 2000 ROM or cartridge for it to work?
Found the ROM here: http://www.arus.net....l/examples.html

#107 Mclaneinc OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:35 AM

Well as thought it was yet another push at the Turbo Cas stuff, he just won't leave it alone, I don't understand why he fails to get the point that Phaeron knows of it and constantly requests people not to keep bothering about the same items as they are on his to look at list.

I can understand W1k wants it as he feels its something very popular in his country but where I fail to understand is that pestering the author really isn't likely to yield good results, when people pester me for help or stuff I basically get fed up and say no just to hear the end of it.

Like any person who programs for a living on here or other forums and has FREE side projects its all about time, continued interest and enjoyment. When developing becomes a chore for whatever reason interest wanes and your personal time becomes more important, constant nagging IS a chore.

W1k needs to understand that their projects are theirs alone to do what they will, idea's and suggestions are nice but at the end of the day the person who decides what is in or out is the DEV and no one else, we as users either deal with that or learn to code as well as they do and add stuff ourselves.

To quote Sean Connery's character in The Untouchables when lecturing Elliot Ness on the bridge about Police work, he finishes and says "Here endeth the lesson".

Maybe w1k will one day pick up on that....

Edited by Mclaneinc, Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:37 AM.


#108 w1k OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:56 AM

dont panic
i have no more info about that crash
its totally simple....

#109 drac030 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:51 AM

Well as thought it was yet another push at the Turbo Cas stuff, he just won't leave it alone


I think you're now a bit exaggerating. Whether the "turbo stuff" is supported or not, the emulator certainly should not crash when fed with an A8 program. If it does, it is certainly a bug and it should be fixed.

#110 Mclaneinc OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:54 AM

As this needs an external rom I'm not sure that is correct..

#111 morelenmir OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:36 PM

I am not really very sure what the 'turbo' thing is even all about really - the device itself I mean. Is it some kind of hardware compression/decompression add-in to store more on a cassette? I suppose the other side of that would be it can load the same amount of data faster, after decompression.

#112 phaeron OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:42 PM

While it's true that the emulator shouldn't crash regardless of whether hardware is supported or not, there's a simple problem: I can't reproduce it. The crash is actually occurring in the display code, so it may not be related to the 6502 code that's running.

Update: I almost forgot -- please attempt to reproduce this with as little as possible (only hardware emu, carts, etc. necessary) and with /fullheapdump on the command line. The /fullheapdump switch creates a much bigger .mdmp file with additional info. The type of crash I'm seeing here can't be diagnosed with the normal minidump, so I'll need the more detailed version.

Edited by phaeron, Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:58 PM.


#113 Mclaneinc OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:13 AM

The turbo thing seems to load tapes at a different freq / baud than the standard hardware, whilst I LOVE anything new being added to Altirra sometimes I see something that isn't doing something amazing so that would be nice to have as a completest addition for the Atari hardware era but not something that needs the constant push by W1k.

This is where W1k mistakes my intentions, I like him would like it but simply give the man a break with the nagging.

At the end of the day my views are worth zero in the real world as Phaeron adds what he likes (or not), I simply try to make the 'pushers' understand that just because they want stuff it does not mean it has to be added and that devs have a list of idea's added by people like us and they work along them at their own pace. As I've said before a few times, I'm one of the real old school folks from day zero of computers becoming household and I've watched many emulation devs make some incredible emulators but I've also watched as I've beta tested many and saw the same devs become simply 'pissed' with the nagging and insults hurled at them by kids or impatient people.

Just trying to avoid this as I've also seen many a dev stop developing because of the hassle.

At the end of the day the turbo system is simply an alternative way to load cassette files faster than normal, the speed does not equal Disk access so its a clever bit of kit but hardly instantly top of the pile simply to load the same old files we have in numerous formats that already load quicker.

Nice, yes, game changing, no...Want it?...Yes if its viable and not too much trouble....The only person that gets a choice on that is Phaeron.

#114 morelenmir OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:40 PM

Very fair Mclaneinc - I don't think anyone can argue with that.

There was another, similar device once advertised in Page 6 I seem to recall - the 'Rambit':

http://www.page6.org..._24/page_30.htm

Interesting, but without increasing the cassette motor speed I guess it puts more information on the same size chunk of tape - with or without compression.

My vote for next, solid device to be added would be the 'XEP 80'. That and maybe a quick polish of the UI so the source debugger becomes one of the existing dockable debugging windows and recognizes the custom hotkeys. In fact, given my current interests I would vote for the latter before the former - but that is just self interest!!!

#115 fibrewire OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:38 AM

Avery, could i suggest support for this behemoth?

http://www.bjorn3d.c...-cassette-deck/

the playback only model is easy enough to find on ebay for about $50, which "could" be cool, but more costly than attaching an actual 410 to a PC

#116 Mclaneinc OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:25 AM

Avery, got an odd one, any idea why Satarn Saturn does not boot, its a 800B only game but seems to do a reset and I get the impression its looking for something before it dumps out.

There is a com version that semi works but had audio corruption.

Here's a link to that XEX

http://atariage.com/...50#entry2237732

#117 phaeron OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:43 PM

Wow, that is one broken loader. It executes a BRK instruction between every byte!

For some reason, Satarn Saturn requires a disk in D1: to successfully start.

#118 snicklin OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:52 AM

There was another, similar device once advertised in Page 6 I seem to recall - the 'Rambit':

http://www.page6.org..._24/page_30.htm


Yes, I had (have?) one. There's a program that you load up and then compresses your tape. You then write it back out to tape again.

As far as I remember, it didn't do anything to the tape speed, but loading times were improved. You could also use normal tapes with it and they'd also work.

If I remember correctly, I sent my XC12 off to Derek Fern who then installed the Rambit for you.

#119 snicklin OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:58 AM

I've just found my Rambit documentation booklet. Does anyone need a scan or is it available elsewhere? I would have to locate a scanner...

It says inside,
"RAMBIT high speed copy consists of a short normal speed section followed by the main section recorded at FAST rate ( average 3500 baud ) in one or two formats described later"

It doesn't mention compression, but I can't see it not using it.

#120 Mclaneinc OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:51 AM

Thanks for checking that out Phaeron..

#121 lemiel OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:51 PM

Of course it will be nice to have support for reading and writting casettes (cas files) in turbo (writting for example for unprotecting protected recordings (as tried http://translate.goo...ic.php?id=11282 )), but of course we can't have everything.
Most of Polish (and one from East Germany) designs are described in Atariki under Recorder ( http://translate.goo...fdKoO90W_wuhmaA ). As is stated in KSO Turbo 2000 there were versions using regular SIO or second joystick port to transmit. (I cannot see Turbo 2600, but it was, as I remember, only special filter and almost normal, but speeded transmission.)
Of course there are many Czech/Slovak/Czechoslovak turbo systems, some described and supported in Turgen http://turgen.sourceforge.net/ .
And w1k is a bit offensive, but maybe because he is getting from "trashes" many "non standard" or less popular turbo systems available in Slovakia, so he is trying to get them to work without real hardware.
For playing with atari we should have more and more free spare time, but not everybody have or can have it.
And nobody knows (maybe kr0tki which did some patches for Atari800 to support turbo cas) how much time is needed to code support for them.
Maybe most of them can be generalized to make them working in software, but I cannot say that - I have to low knowledge in coding and electronics.

#122 Mclaneinc OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:27 AM

And w1k is a bit offensive, but maybe because he is getting from "trashes" many "non standard" or less popular turbo systems available in Slovakia, so he is trying to get them to work without real hardware.


That is the problem that I have with him, its great he has placed a request for Avery to have a look if he wants to add that feature and although *I* have no great excitement re the tape stuff I'm like most and enjoy anything that gets added but W1k just drones on about it time and time again the asking is very abrasive in style, I understand English is not his first language and I applaud all of the Non English speakers for learning it buthis requests come across as demands.

Maybe its a translation issue?

I just wish he would appreciate that its a FREE emulator programmed by a very busy guy who does it because he loved his 8bit and started it as a personal project which then after lots of encouragement and his time and hard work ended up as the masterpiece it is today.

At least respect his wishes when he says to not constantly repeat the same request time after time. For what we all get back in return for this is definitely a massive win for us :)

I have no ill feelings about w1k but wish he would see that sometimes the requests come across as a bit childish.....Just wait and watch w1k, who knows what Avery will add or not but every update the emulator gets better and better.

Edited by Mclaneinc, Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:28 AM.


#123 AtariGeezer ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:41 AM

Maybe its a translation issue?

I have no ill feelings about w1k but...


It might be part of a translation issue, but he did report a valid bug didn't he?

It sounds like you are the only one who's harping on w1k here :-o

Just my 2 bits...

#124 morelenmir OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:47 AM

Give it a few AtariGeezer - the old tape loader thing will come up again, you just watch!!!

I think the key thing is to take it all in good spirit - we're all only typing words in to a keyboard here and not getting in to a punch up in the 'Five Bells' after a lock-in!!!

#125 Mclaneinc OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:34 AM

It might be part of a translation issue, but he did report a valid bug didn't he?

It sounds like you are the only one who's harping on w1k here :-o

Just my 2 bits...


He sort of reported a bug but forgot to mention you needed the turbo run operational to run the software which sort of defeats the point.

As for me harping on about him, yeah fair point, just niggled me but that's my last bit on it...Honest :)




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