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Colecovision Vs. NES in graphics.

Colecovision Nes Vs. Graphics Dicussion

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#26 gamecat80 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:16 AM

NES gamepad rules. And it's all about software really. Super Mario Bros was so innovative. It had been a long time since Atari, Coleco, Mattel or anyone else made a game that opened minds, ears, and eyes like that game did. SMB = killer app.


I gotta say the first time I saw Super Mario Bros. on the NES I was absolutely blown away! I had never seen or heard a game like that before. We had moved about a mile away to another neighborhood back in the summer of 1988, and we still had our basic Commodore 64. We started visiting other kids in the new neighborhood and one kid we visited had the NES and was playing SMB on it. I was like :-o after seeing it....and we soon got our own NES!

Both the ColecoVison and Nintendo Entertainment System were ahead of their time.

#27 Aking OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:13 PM

as nice as the CV is,
it couldn't have competed with the Nes at all imho

#28 jetset OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:19 PM

I wondered at first..."Is this thread a joke"? But some are really serious. The CV has *some* games with great graphics, but comparable to the NES? Why stop at the NES? Lets compare the CV graphics to the N64...the PS2...maybe even the 360!!!
Seriously...you could make a case that some of the Coleco games' graphics are comparable to the 5200/Atari 8bit line, but even then it's a draw in many cases, and in others the CV is outdone by the 8-bit graphics. Look at the screenshots of Donkey Kong. The CV isn't even close. Sorry, this is just a silly comparison. Yikes.

#29 NIAD OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:59 PM

No one's delusional here, but the graphics capabilities of the ColecoVision are far better than what we all see in games released in the 80's and today's talented crop of Homebrew programmers is proving this over and over again. Fortunately, today's programmers aren't constrained to a 32K limit on the ColecoVision and can really push it's graphics abilities using bank-switching cart PCBs just like NES programmers had available to them back in the day... ie: the more rom space you have available, the more detailed one can make the graphics.

There's a lot of good examples and mock-ups of the CV's graphics abilities and for that matter the gloried CV computer that's called ADAM... see Dragon's Lair and Richard Scarry's Best Electronic Workbook. The CV still has a lot of other limitations (color bleeding, sprite limitations, small color palette, etc.) but it's a lot more capable with the right graphics artist on the job.

Again, see Post #13 for Opcode Games upcoming version of Donkey Kong all created using the CV's built-in video chip.

Edited by NIAD, Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:00 PM.


#30 jetset OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:35 PM

Yes the graphics nowadays are better, but comparing them to the NES is still laughable. Post #13 shows improved graphics yes, but still much behind the nintendo

#31 akator OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:16 PM

I never thought of comparing the graphics between NES and ColecoVision before this thread. My initial response was that such a comparison was reaching a bit.

Today I fired up both systems, focused on the graphics, and found them closer than I would have though. I couldn't help but notice that the sound is often comparable as well.

Noticing the similarities made the NES' controllers and scrolling capabilities feel even more head-smackingly advanced.

Once thing that I've never liked about the NES is the color palette, especially the yellow and red. I massively prefer the colors on the CV.

#32 Jordiway OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:47 PM

I agree the new CV games look great but the NES games we are comparing them too are from the 80's if someone were to redo DK on the NES I am sure it would be amazing as well.

#33 wood_jl OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:17 AM

I wondered at first..."Is this thread a joke"? But some are really serious. The CV has *some* games with great graphics, but comparable to the NES? Why stop at the NES? Lets compare the CV graphics to the N64...the PS2...maybe even the 360!!!


Really?. Indeed, let's compare the Colecovision to the PS2, or, let's wait for the next-gen, and compare the 1982 CV to whatever's coming out in 2014. HA HA HA! Ridiculous, but who'd have expected more?

Seriously...


After that, you expect to be taken "seriously?" That is seriously funny! HA HA HA!!!!!! Please, how about an encore?

you could make a case that some of the Coleco games' graphics are comparable to the 5200/Atari 8bit line,


They are. Considerably. That's why the Colecovision is well-respected, to this day. Duh!


but even then it's a draw in many cases,


Yeah, it is, and it's not necessarily a weak point, for either system. Thanks for describing the OBVIOUS,

and in others the CV is outdone by the 8-bit graphics.


Let's see some examples. This clown claims to have me on "ignore" (because he can't win a factual argument) but I reply for the sake of the thread in general, not to the no-evidence clown, who should be rightfully ignored. Furthermore, Donkey Kong was never released for the 5200. This guy is always against the 400/800 (simply because he didn't have one) and strongly FOR the 5200 (simply because that's what he had) - but now attempts to amalgamate the two - for the sake of a Donkey Kong comparison???? HA HA HA!!! Please, "jetset," continue!!!! Very entertaining! When you're done, try to explain the Wells Fargo (he's a bank teller who doesn't know policy of the firm he works for, but argues nonetheless) policies! HA HA HA!


Look at the screenshots of Donkey Kong. The CV isn't even close.


Actually, the CV is "close" in every measurable observation. It was extremely arcade-like for the time, and one of the best. Of course, those who are biased and opinionated - or simply have their heads where the "sun don't shine" - are not likely to admit that.


Sorry, this is just a silly comparison. Yikes.


I'll bet you're sorry. You should be. I feel sorry for you!! Now, please, for the sake of the thread, tell us how you've been an Atariage member for over 10 years, as if that's relevant......heh heh heh.

Edited by wood_jl, Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:21 AM.


#34 roland p OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:47 AM

This thread was about comparing specs. I think there is nothing that the cv can and the nes can't. You could argue the palette of one machine is more appealing than the other.

#35 high voltage OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:07 PM

The CV games play and look good, the graphics improved over its short lifespan (like with any console really), and if Coleco wouldn't have folded, it would been up there with SMS, NES maybe. Early NES/SMS games looked crude too.


The CV controls are way better than NES awful joypad controls (Actually any Western controller is better than any 'wrong-way'around' Eastern controller).
The CV looks nicer.
The CV plays VCS games.
!!!!!!!WINNER!!!!!!!

Edited by high voltage, Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:16 PM.


#36 nanochess ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:28 PM

I did some research about the NES hardware:
  • Each 8x8 tile can combine four colors in one line (versus only 2 per line in Colecovision)
  • Each 8x16 sprite can use three colors in bitmap (versus only 1 in Colecovision, it would have to use three sprites)
  • There are support for eight sprites per line and 64 sprites (versus only 4 per line and 32 sprites in Colecovision)
  • There is hardware scrolling support. (none in Colecovision)
  • There exists a palette for backgrounds and another for sprites that can be changed on the fly for fade-in/out effects. (versus the border color in Colecovision used for transparent color)
  • The actual screen resolution is 256x224 (versus 256x192 in Colecovision)
In sprites, NES allows eight sprites inline but them are 8x16, so it technically is the four sprites of Colecovision, BUT allows three colors in each half (8x16), so effectively equivalent to 12 or 24 Colecovision sprites.

It looks that NES video capabilities are similar to Sega Master System.

It's a little unfair to do this comparison as the VDP used in Colecovision came out in 1979 and the NES came out in 1983 (as Famicom,) four years later.

Edited by nanochess, Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:34 PM.


#37 Jess Ragan OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:59 AM

Yeah, Donkey Kong was ported to the Atari 5200 by some hackers a few years back. I had the game briefly, back in the days when I actually had the money to spend on such frivolities. It's pretty much identical to the Atari 400/800 game, but that makes it hugely improved over its ColecoVision counterpart. It's as ugly as a sack of butts, but it PLAYS so much better and feels so much more complete.

By the way, the observation that the ColecoVision version of Donkey Kong was "one of the best" only demonstrates just how lacking all the home console conversions of the game really were. Have you ever stopped and asked yourself why homebrewers and even Nintendo itself have released new ports of Donkey Kong for the ColecoVision, 2600, and NES in the 21st century? The answer's pretty clear: the originals on these three systems fell far short of arcade perfection and were in dire need of revision.

#38 Greg2600 ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:05 AM

The CV games play and look good, the graphics improved over its short lifespan (like with any console really), and if Coleco wouldn't have folded, it would been up there with SMS, NES maybe. Early NES/SMS games looked crude too.

The CV controls are way better than NES awful joypad controls (Actually any Western controller is better than any 'wrong-way'around' Eastern controller).
The CV looks nicer.
The CV plays VCS games.
!!!!!!!WINNER!!!!!!!

I'm hoping you were joking about the controls. The CV had some of the worst controllers I've ever experienced. So bad I couldn't really enjoy them until I had Yurkie install his replacement ball knobs. CV itself would not have been able to compete, they would have had to do a CV II or something like that by the time the NES came out, which cloned the NES. Smaller controllers, smaller power brick, composite video, additional ram, upgraded video, etc.

Edited by Greg2600, Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:05 AM.


#39 jetset OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:47 AM

I'm hoping you were joking about the controls.


There's quite a bit of that going on in this thread. :P

#40 Manoau2002 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:59 AM

As far as controllers are concerned the nes has a better controller for orginal platform style games. The colecovision controller is better for arcade ports.

#41 gamecat80 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:02 AM

Seriously...you could make a case that some of the Coleco games' graphics are comparable to the 5200/Atari 8bit line, but even then it's a draw in many cases, and in others the CV is outdone by the 8-bit graphics. Look at the screenshots of Donkey Kong. The CV isn't even close. Sorry, this is just a silly comparison. Yikes.


IMO, the ColecoVision is very much comparable to the Atari 5200/400. As someone who grew up with the NES and started collecting retro consoles and games a couple years ago, I can tell you the CV games just look more refined/polished than on the Atari 5200. The sprites are more rounded and the animation/movement smoother on the CV. Compare Jungle Hunt on both systems. Don't get me wrong, I like the Atari 5200 (even though mine crapped out weeks ago :( ), and I know the 5200 has a bigger color palette than the CV. But the CV graphics and animation (not to be confused with scrolling) just appear smoother and more polished. And homebrew CV games like Mario Bros. are very much comparable (in some ways better) to the NES version.
You gotta remember - the ColecoVision was only on the market for 2+ years. That's not enough time to learn the full potential/capabilities of the system. Later games like Tarzan (in that early 2-year period) show more what the CV was capable of...

#42 jetset OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:38 AM

IMO, the ColecoVision is very much comparable to the Atari 5200/400. As someone who grew up with the NES and started collecting retro consoles and games a couple years ago, I can tell you the CV games just look more refined/polished than on the Atari 5200. The sprites are more rounded and the animation/movement smoother on the CV. Compare Jungle Hunt on both systems. Don't get me wrong, I like the Atari 5200 (even though mine crapped out weeks ago :( ), and I know the 5200 has a bigger color palette than the CV. But the CV graphics and animation (not to be confused with scrolling) just appear smoother and more polished. And homebrew CV games like Mario Bros. are very much comparable (in some ways better) to the NES version.
You gotta remember - the ColecoVision was only on the market for 2+ years. That's not enough time to learn the full potential/capabilities of the system. Later games like Tarzan (in that early 2-year period) show more what the CV was capable of...


I guess in some cases it's all in what you see. I think Jungle Hunt looks 10 times better on the Atari 8-bit/5200. the CV version (graphics) may be rounder, but they're dull imo.

junglehunt.gif

Same with Pitfall 2

pitfall2.gif

Frogger? Not even close.

frogger.gif

Again I don't mean to say the CV graphics SUCK and the Atari 8-bit/5200 graphics are perfect. Point being the idea of comparing the CV graphics to the NES is like comparing apples to apple pies. It just doesn't work.

Credit where credit is due btw...the pics are linked from atarihq.com, which has a pretty good comparison of the CV/Atari 8-bit/5200 on everything from cpu speed to scrolling to controllers.

http://www.atarihq.c...cv52/index.html

#43 gamecat80 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:03 AM

I will agree that the 5200 has much more color shadings and detail in those games compared to the CV versions. But the CV game versions have more rounded graphics, smoother animation and much better controls - even with the stiff knob controller. I find some games like Frogger, Q*Bert and even Jungle Hunt to be almost unplayable on the Atari 5200. The ColecoVision versions of those games play much, much better.

#44 high voltage OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:27 AM

Of course, the CV controller is not the best when compared to a CX40 but the awful NES pad with its wrong-way-round controls are the worst, especially for platform gaming.

#45 Jordiway OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:44 AM

Of course, the CV controller is not the best when compared to a CX40 but the awful NES pad with its wrong-way-round controls are the worst, especially for platform gaming.


How can you say the NES controller is awful? The PS3 and Xbox 360 still follow this format

#46 Greg2600 ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:45 AM

Of course, the CV controller is not the best when compared to a CX40 but the awful NES pad with its wrong-way-round controls are the worst, especially for platform gaming.

I think he's pulling our chain now.

#47 retroillucid OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:53 AM

How can you say the NES controller is awful? The PS3 and Xbox 360 still follow this format


Nah, it follow the SNES format
Best controller ever made!

#48 high voltage OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:25 PM

I think he's pulling our chain now.


Sorry, I hate all Japanese style joypads, even now, with PS3 or whatever awful console, they are wrong, as they are the wrong way around when compared to a decent joystick (Joystick: Control = right hand, Fire = left hand).
The Japanese NES style joypad with the wrong controlling device and was forced onto the American public. Even the lettering is 'Japanese style' not Western.
JOYPAD = WRONG WRONG WRONG

They should have made a choice for launching NES in USA:
Posted Image

At least in Europe we had the excellent Konix Speed King for NES and the Spectravideo NES Joystick

Edited by high voltage, Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:35 PM.


#49 Greg2600 ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:40 PM

well I personally think a joystick for platform games is not the way to go. as a right-handed person, I find having the dpad on the left and buttons on the right is the better approach as well.

#50 gamecat80 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:06 PM

well I personally think a joystick for platform games is not the way to go. as a right-handed person, I find having the dpad on the left and buttons on the right is the better approach as well.


It's funny you say that because I'm left-handed and have no problems with the NES d-pad controllers :thumbsup: Maybe it's because I grew up with the NES and it's controllers. But I think they are some of the best controllers ever made -- reliable, comfortable and very responsive. On the other hand, I have more trouble using Atari 2600-style joysticks...





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