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So where can I get a prototype fixed?

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#51 Supergun OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:51 PM

So it is only a 4K game then huh?
Probably not much more to the game then.
What about sound? You have yet to report on that. Does it have any audio at all? (sound effects)
What do the difficulty switches do? What does game select and reset do?
Joysticks? Paddles? 2 players?

SPEAK! I command you to speak my son!
:)

#52 Gao OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:00 PM

So it is only a 4K game then huh?
Probably not much more to the game then.
What about sound? You have yet to report on that. Does it have any audio at all? (sound effects)
What do the difficulty switches do? What does game select and reset do?
Joysticks? Paddles? 2 players?

SPEAK! I command you to speak my son!
:)


I think it had sound, but I don't really remember it. You'll have to ask CPUWIZ about that. It uses joysticks and seemed to be only one player. I think reset just starts the game, and I don't recall select doing anything. I think the AB difficulty switch controlled wither enemies shoot or not. Again, CPUWIZ can go ahead and correct me if any of this is wrong.

#53 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:17 PM

The "Jim's Toy" looks like a "hack" or a "re-working" of the VideoSoft logo

Interesting hypothesis. Got a picture of the two side by side? I'm not 100% familiar with the Videosoft logo (I never got into PAL stuff).

#54 CPUWIZ OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:22 PM

Yep, although, Reset doesn't do anything for me on a Junior (have not tried anything else). When you die, you need to hit Fire and Back, to restart (clever!).

#55 Supergun OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:24 PM

Ask and you shall receive...
exhibitA.gif exhibitB.png
Anybody perhaps know a programmer named "Jim" who may have worked for Amiga or Video Soft?

Edited by Supergun, Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:35 PM.


#56 Gao OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:26 PM

Yep, although, Reset doesn't do anything for me on a Junior (have not tried anything else). When you die, you need to hit Fire and Back, to restart (clever!).


Never knew about the back and fire thing. That is kind of interesting. I'm probably misremembering reset then, since I first played this thing on a junior.

#57 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:36 PM

Ask and you shall receive...
exhibitA.gif exhibitB.png

They do look a lot alike. I think you're onto something here. The 'I' at the end of Jim's Toy must be the T from Videosoft. Very interesting.

#58 CPUWIZ OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:40 PM

They do look a lot alike. I think you're onto something here. The 'I' at the end of Jim's Toy must be the T from Videosoft. Very interesting.


I doubt it, if someone is clever enough to edit the characters, he would not just get rid of the over-extending line, but also the T.

#59 Supergun OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:17 PM

I doubt it, if someone is clever enough to edit the characters, he would not just get rid of the over-extending line, but also the T.


No, I mean your over thinking it though.
This was an eprom cartridge, a work in progress if you will. The "initial" modifying of the VideoSoft logo would have just been "good enough" or sufficient to at least "hide" the name video soft from prospective buyers or interested individuals who may have been looking at the game at some point for evaluation or consideration, etc.

They would have eventually gone in there and made a more permanent change, such as placing the actual company logo of whomever was going to release it, or heck deleted it all together. The point is it makes sense that it was not "perfectly done" because this was not "ready to be masked" anyhow.

(and of course the entire VideoSoft or Amiga theory could be wrong too, I am just explaining this tidbit away)

#60 Crimefighter OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:27 AM

So now that leaves video of "Jim's Toy" being played to be put up.

#61 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:43 AM

From a coder's perspective, I doubt there is a relation to Video Soft. Except for the bar, all characters are different and not even at the same position.

And why would anyone leave the bar if it is much easier to start from scratch?

#62 Supergun OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:28 AM

Well, the bar logo varies from game to game and is also in different positions.
For this game it could have been at that position originally.
exhibitC.gif exhibitD.gif
exhibitB.png exhibitA.gif

Edited by Supergun, Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:30 AM.


#63 Gao OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:00 AM

Well, the bar logo varies from game to game and is also in different positions.
For this game it could have been at that position originally.
exhibitC.gif exhibitD.gif
exhibitB.png exhibitA.gif


While it seems strange to just leave a bar if ones overwriting a logo, it could be that someone made it look like the Video Soft logo on purpose. Like hypothetically, this was a pet project of someone working at Video Soft (Jim?), and this is a proof of concept that he presented to whoever there made decisions to produce games. The graphics may largely be placeholders (meaning they never intended to release a game with swastika looking enemies), and since he was going to replace the graphics anyway, he put in his own signature or inside joke or something where the company logo would go, and kept the bar to make it clear what it was (or perhaps as some sort of inside joke). Comparing "Jim's Toy(i?)" to the Video Soft logo really demonstrates how relatively awkward looking that is as well, with inconsistent letter sizes and possibly two different forms of "i" for some reason.

Edited by Gao, Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:02 AM.


#64 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:19 AM

Well, do we know if anyone at Videosoft was named Jim? That might help prove or disprove the theory.

#65 Wonder007 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:19 AM

I think this game is Tank Blitz, an unreleased proto from Milton Bradley. This game would have had a special controller and the odd way of resetting this game (press button and down) is perhaps programmed that way to accommodate the special controller..... see: http://www.atariprot...0/tankblitz.jpg (scroll down). Of course, I may be totally wrong but you never know....does anybody the name of the programmers from Milton Bradley?

#66 Supergun OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:38 AM

That's an excellent theory as well. I always forget about that third game in the Milton Bradley series that never made it out the gates. So it is possible, of course. However I did look at the scoring fonts of Spitfire Attack & Survival Run and they are just a completely different style. Anything is possible at this point though. We will figure this out eventually, we just need to keep digging, (of course, as I said earlier, we could end up finding out it was programmed by a "recluse".

#67 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:21 AM

Maybe CPUWIZ could run CloneSpy and check if any other game has some code sharing.

#68 CPUWIZ OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:03 PM

Don't you need an ancient OS for that?

#69 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:04 PM

Don't you need an ancient OS for that?

Any 32 bit Windows should work.

#70 Rom Hunter OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:36 PM

I can't come any further than Tank Blitz either.

CPU, do you recognize this board type being from a certain company?

8)

Edited by Rom Hunter, Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:57 PM.


#71 CPUWIZ OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:10 PM

No, never seen this kind before.

#72 Wonder007 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:36 PM

Another thing: with the presence of reversed swastikas and the word "Blitz" in the Milton Bradley proto title, the term "blitzkreig" was a military strategy used by the German forces during World War II (see following link for more info: http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Blitzkrieg) which would connect the 'Blitz" in "Tank Blitz", the tank which is part of the
blitzkreig World War II military strategy and the swatiskas that identified Hitler's Germany during the same time. I have researched other possible Atari 2600 tank-related proto possibilities in my vast prototype documentation and resources but could not find anything. I am starting to think that this is a proto to Tank Blitz.

#73 Cebus Capucinis OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:38 PM

Another thing: with the presence of reversed swastikas and the word "Blitz" in the Milton Bradley proto title, the term "blitzkreig" was a military strategy used by the German forces during World War II (see following link for more info: http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Blitzkrieg) which would connect the 'Blitz" in "Tank Blitz", the tank which is part of the
blitzkreig World War II military strategy and the swatiskas that idendified Hitler's Germany during the same time. I have researched other possible Atari 2600 tank-related proto possibilities in my vast prototype documentation and resources but could not find anything. I am starting to think that this is a proto to Tank Blitz.


If it is, that's even cooler than it being some random new game! :) A shame it doesn't have the controller with it, I wonder if there were any working prototypes of that running about. Doubtful, since that would have been after the game was done, and the one in the pic is likely just a mockup.

#74 Foxsolo2000 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:03 AM

Another thing: with the presence of reversed swastikas and the word "Blitz" in the Milton Bradley proto title, the term "blitzkreig" was a military strategy used by the German forces during World War II (see following link for more info: http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Blitzkrieg) which would connect the 'Blitz" in "Tank Blitz", the tank which is part of the
blitzkreig World War II military strategy and the swatiskas that identified Hitler's Germany during the same time. I have researched other possible Atari 2600 tank-related proto possibilities in my vast prototype documentation and resources but could not find anything. I am starting to think that this is a proto to Tank Blitz.


How may other tank related prototypes are still out there? ;)

#75 Rom Hunter OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:33 AM

Starpath's Last Line of Defense.

And 20th Century Fox' Patton.

But I don't think these are correct.

8)





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