Is ebay going to start making sellers pay for return shipping!?

[shadow460]

It's been a while since I logged into my seller account. I just logged in and a message popped up about streamlined returns, so I read the fine print. One of the provisions was that I had to authorize ebay to bill me for return shipping if items were returned to me.

 

If I mess up and a return is my fault, I don't mind paying return shipping. I'll offer to pay it when I realize what happened. However, if the buyer simply doesn't like the item or if something happened that I had no control over (like it gets a forklift stuck through it), I'm not about to pay return shipping. For all I know, they might just want to use the item for a week or two and then return it free of charge with no intention of ever paying for it at all. Last time I went into a Blockbuster, they charged money to rent games and movies. If ebay forces me to pay return shipping on everything, that's basically allowing "buyers" (renters or mooches in reality) to essentially rent the games free of charge when I'm trying to sell them instead.

 

Wrong answer, ebay!

[nofrills100]

I know with eBay Australia, that if you stipulate in your listing that returns are accepted at buyers expense then that qualifies as part of the terms and conditions. I usually also stipulate that a refund is only given for the actual item - not the postage.

Of course if it was my fault I would do a total refund including return postage if I drastically stuffed something up.

 

[kheffington]

I think that is only for resolution center cases where the buyer claims the item is not as described. Doubt they are charging sellers for returns agreed to as they allow the tacking on of a restocking fee and indicating that the buyer pays return shipping in the item listing.

[charly54]

Its a fact, new updates from ebay and if you look at ebay UK its the same their as the USA. ANy buyer using the excuss "not as discribed" can make the seller pay return shipping.

 

Heres the new updates and USA link, I imagine the UK update reads the same.

 

http://announcements.ebay.com/2014/08/updates-to-the-ebay-user-agreement-user-privacy-notice-and-money-back-guarantee/

 

Returns. We updated this section to clarify that if eBay hassle-free returns are applied to your listings, you authorize eBay to remove the refund amount from your PayPal account, place the amount on your invoice, and/or charge your payment method on file. By the 2015 holiday season, all eligible domestic returns on eBay will be eBay hassle-free returns and sellers may not remove hassle-free return settings from their listings. We updated this section also to reflect this future change.

Money Back Guarantee. We updated this section to reflect changes in the Money Back Guarantee, specifically that sellers are responsible for return shipping costs if an item is not as described and that, if an eBay-generated return shipping label is used for return shipping on items not as described, we place the return shipping label cost on the seller's invoice

[AtariTexas]

Oh Ebay!!!! You silly goose!

[Shawn]

Its a fact, new updates from ebay and if you look at ebay UK its the same their as the USA. ANy buyer using the excuss "not as discribed" can make the seller pay return shipping.

 

Heres the new updates and USA link, I imagine the UK update reads the same.

 

http://announcements.ebay.com/2014/08/updates-to-the-ebay-user-agreement-user-privacy-notice-and-money-back-guarantee/

 

Returns. We updated this section to clarify that if eBay hassle-free returns are applied to your listings, you authorize eBay to remove the refund amount from your PayPal account, place the amount on your invoice, and/or charge your payment method on file. By the 2015 holiday season, all eligible domestic returns on eBay will be eBay hassle-free returns and sellers may not remove hassle-free return settings from their listings. We updated this section also to reflect this future change.

 

Money Back Guarantee. We updated this section to reflect changes in the Money Back Guarantee, specifically that sellers are responsible for return shipping costs if an item is not as described and that, if an eBay-generated return shipping label is used for return shipping on items not as described, we place the return shipping label cost on the seller's invoice

 

Very odd first post

[charly54]

I was searching the net for other forums talking about ebays new rules and found this forum. I did not see until I posted that this was an old thread. Sorry for bumping up a old thread but see it.

 

Yes my first post, I was just wanting to let people on this forum know the new ebay update. I am 59 yrs old and I do remember playing Atari back in the 70's, it was a blast. I still have a bunch of games and a big box of different remotes and 5-6 consols that I have picked up at estate auctions. Maybe I'll list them here, do you have a classified section?

[Shawn]

I was searching the net for other forums talking about ebays new rules and found this forum. I did not see until I posted that this was an old thread. Sorry for bumping up a old thread but see it.

 

Yes my first post, I was just wanting to let people on this forum know the new ebay update. I am 59 yrs old and I do remember playing Atari back in the 70's, it was a blast. I still have a bunch of games and a big box of different remotes and 5-6 consols that I have picked up at estate auctions. Maybe I'll list them here, do you have a classified section?

 

Well welcome to AtariAge! Dust off those old consoles and plug them in!

[accousticguitar]

Check out the marketplace.

[bojay1997]

It's been a while since I logged into my seller account. I just logged in and a message popped up about streamlined returns, so I read the fine print. One of the provisions was that I had to authorize ebay to bill me for return shipping if items were returned to me.

 

If I mess up and a return is my fault, I don't mind paying return shipping. I'll offer to pay it when I realize what happened. However, if the buyer simply doesn't like the item or if something happened that I had no control over (like it gets a forklift stuck through it), I'm not about to pay return shipping. For all I know, they might just want to use the item for a week or two and then return it free of charge with no intention of ever paying for it at all. Last time I went into a Blockbuster, they charged money to rent games and movies. If ebay forces me to pay return shipping on everything, that's basically allowing "buyers" (renters or mooches in reality) to essentially rent the games free of charge when I'm trying to sell them instead.

 

Wrong answer, ebay!

While I agree that there is room for fraud with this new policy, as someone who buys a lot on Ebay and has dealt with some really bad sellers, I applaud the change. I would also suggest that if an item gets damaged in transit by a forklift, you do have control over it. You chose how to pack the item and typically which carrier to use. USPS gives $50 in insurance with all Priority packages now, so if you are worried, you can simply pay the extra dollar or two to pay for additional insurance and require sellers to use Priority Mail rather than cheaper services. A buyer shouldn't be punished simply because a seller wants to cut corners with packaging or by using a cut rate carrier.

Edited August 14, 2014 by bojay1997

[krslam]

Predictable results of this latest FU to sellers: fewer sellers and higher prices.

[bojay1997]

Predictable results of this latest FU to sellers: fewer sellers and higher prices.

Actually, Ebay has added more sellers every year and with every new policy change that has resulted in a far more buyer friendly stance. I predict this will result in fewer bad sellers and more buyers willing to take the risk of buying from Ebay sellers and that prices won't change at all on average.

[charly54]

Good Buyers are on the other side and do not understand, so let me give an example of the scams you don't know about, which will get 100% worse with this new rule.

 

Say Harry wants to get a Santa's suit for xmas or Halloween custom for halloween but he only needs it for a week. He hears about the new rule if item is "not as discribed", the seller is forced to pay for return shipping. So he buys a used Santa suit or Halloween custom on ebay for $25 w/ship cost of $9. He uses it then files a SNAD complaint with ebay against the seller saying the suit/custom is not as discribed. Ebay closes the claim siding with the buyer and makes the seller refund total payment of $34, then also makes the seller pay for return shipping. Seller is out double shipping cost of $18 and since Halloween/Xmas season is over, they have to wait till the following yr for the holiday to come around.

 

Also there will be allot of people buying used PS3,XBOX, Etc. games. Playing them for a week or 2 then returning "Not as discribed", making seller pay shipping back. This will be happening all over ebay. Buyer will be able to buy, then if they change their mind all they have to say is "Not as Discribed" and they will get full payment refunded and seller has to pay return shipping. For me, I'm going to another auction site Etsy and so are many other.

 

For allot of buyers, ebay will be thought of as EBAY RENTAL. A place to try things out for free and if you don't like it, make seller take it back and pay all ship cost.

[Omega-TI]

I like it personally. Some of the bad seller's will be forced to clean up their act, or go away if they think their dishonesty will come back to bite them. I've read a couple of threads on various boards about one guy that has ripped people off regularly, even switches his names up from time to time. I guess he tends to avoid Ebay now, but has shown up on various forums selling stuff.

 

It's sad that one has to read every minute detail of a listing and take a magnifying glass to the photos, just to figure out if the seller is on the up and up.

 

I've been disappointed in the past by being sucked in with a clean 'STOCK PHOTO' only to find a semi-thrashed object in the box.

[video game addict]

 

Say Harry wants to get a Santa's suit for xmas or Halloween custom for halloween but he only needs it for a week. He hears about the new rule if item is "not as discribed", the seller is forced to pay for return shipping. So he buys a used Santa suit or Halloween custom on ebay for $25 w/ship cost of $9. He uses it then files a SNAD complaint with ebay against the seller saying the suit/custom is not as discribed. Ebay closes the claim siding with the buyer and makes the seller refund total payment of $34, then also makes the seller pay for return shipping. Seller is out double shipping cost of $18 and since Halloween/Xmas season is over, they have to wait till the following yr for the holiday to come around.

 

While I agree this may happen at some point to any seller offering hassle free returns, I believe in time if this becomes a common enough occurrence, ebay would likely step in and enforce rules rebuking those repeat offenders. I could see something like the non-paying bidder alerts we file through the resolution center. Once a bidder has returned a predetermined amount of items as "not as described", said bidder would be unable to return any future items, or be banned completely.. Or there could be more mediation added between buyer/ebay/seller that may reveal false returns. Having good pictures and/or video of the items in question, might rule out returns in the future. Ebay has always operated under the caveat emptor motto, and buyer's remorse should not be allowed to enter into a return policy, so I feel ebay will have to listen to sellers if misuse of policies exist.

[Blazing Lazers]

I like it personally. Some of the bad seller's will be forced to clean up their act, or go away if they think their dishonesty will come back to bite them. I've read a couple of threads on various boards about one guy that has ripped people off regularly, even switches his names up from time to time. I guess he tends to avoid Ebay now, but has shown up on various forums selling stuff.

 

It's sad that one has to read every minute detail of a listing and take a magnifying glass to the photos, just to figure out if the seller is on the up and up.

 

I've been disappointed in the past by being sucked in with a clean 'STOCK PHOTO' only to find a semi-thrashed object in the box.

 

You touch upon something that would truly make Ebay a better place for buying: stock photos. If Ebay were to require actual, non stock photos for items sold in single or small quantities (20 or less, perhaps), buyers could have more confidence in their purchases and crooked sellers be better taken to account. Ebay could even use a carrot/stick approach, such as charging small additional fees as a penalty for sellers who use stock photos while giving sellers who use good, detailed, real photos a slightly reduced fee assessment.

[bojay1997]

While I agree this may happen at some point to any seller offering hassle free returns, I believe in time if this becomes a common enough occurrence, ebay would likely step in and enforce rules rebuking those repeat offenders. I could see something like the non-paying bidder alerts we file through the resolution center. Once a bidder has returned a predetermined amount of items as "not as described", said bidder would be unable to return any future items, or be banned completely.. Or there could be more mediation added between buyer/ebay/seller that may reveal false returns. Having good pictures and/or video of the items in question, might rule out returns in the future. Ebay has always operated under the caveat emptor motto, and buyer's remorse should not be allowed to enter into a return policy, so I feel ebay will have to listen to sellers if misuse of policies exist.

Ebay already does this to some degree. They do a review of every case that is filed and check the filer's claim history as well as the seller's. Buyers who have a high ratio of returns/refunds to purchases are suspended or warned of suspension. Sellers with excess returns and a relatively low number of sales are similarly suspended or warned.

Edited August 18, 2014 by bojay1997

[krslam]

Bad buyers just set up new accounts. Any claim by ebay that they protect sellers is pure dishonesty. I'll be pleased when thier execs get carted off to jail for aiding and abetting fraud.

[AtariLeaf]

While I agree this may happen at some point to any seller offering hassle free returns, I believe in time if this becomes a common enough occurrence, ebay would likely step in and enforce rules rebuking those repeat offenders. I could see something like the non-paying bidder alerts we file through the resolution center. Once a bidder has returned a predetermined amount of items as "not as described", said bidder would be unable to return any future items, or be banned completely.. Or there could be more mediation added between buyer/ebay/seller that may reveal false returns. Having good pictures and/or video of the items in question, might rule out returns in the future. Ebay has always operated under the caveat emptor motto, and buyer's remorse should not be allowed to enter into a return policy, so I feel ebay will have to listen to sellers if misuse of policies exist.

 

Doesn't help the seller getting screwed the first time around. It's not like a NPB. In those cases the seller gets his fees back and relists, no real harm done.

 

And what's to say the buyer doesn't actually return the item they bought? They could simply use this as a great way to swap out bad games, bad consoles with good ones and saddle the seller with returned broken junk AND a negative in the cash flow column. This is bad for sellers, really bad. Glad I finished my collection selling purge.

[charly54]

While I agree this may happen at some point to any seller offering hassle free returns, I believe in time if this becomes a common enough occurrence, ebay would likely step in and enforce rules rebuking those repeat offenders. I could see something like the non-paying bidder alerts we file through the resolution center. Once a bidder has returned a predetermined amount of items as "not as described", said bidder would be unable to return any future items, or be banned completely.. Or there could be more mediation added between buyer/ebay/seller that may reveal false returns. Having good pictures and/or video of the items in question, might rule out returns in the future. Ebay has always operated under the caveat emptor motto, and buyer's remorse should not be allowed to enter into a return policy, so I feel ebay will have to listen to sellers if misuse of policies exist.

 

 

 

Video game addict, you are truely misleaded by ebay. Ebay cares about 2 things and 2 things only, buyers and money. They will do anything, thats anything to butter up buyers to buy more. Even at the expense of their LOYAL sellers. If ebay didn't have a monoply in the online auction game, they would treat sellers better.

 

What you don't know is sellers are going to be FORSED into hassle free returns. Starting Sept 15th 2014, any buyer who uses the excuse "not as discribed", the seller will be forced to pay return shipping(no matter what their details or return policy says). So what if they boot a buyer, they just make a new account and start over. Thats the ebay way, ebay will turn their backs just to make a buck.

 

It looks like krslam and Atarileaf know exactly how ebay works. I assume they both sell on ebay as I do. I've sold since 2002 and those two share my resentment for ebay. But where else is a seller to go, no place else has the traffic ebay does. One day ebay will push sellers to far and that'll be it.

[bojay1997]

Video game addict, you are truely misleaded by ebay. Ebay cares about 2 things and 2 things only, buyers and money. They will do anything, thats anything to butter up buyers to buy more. Even at the expense of their LOYAL sellers. If ebay didn't have a monoply in the online auction game, they would treat sellers better.

 

What you don't know is sellers are going to be FORSED into hassle free returns. Starting Sept 15th 2014, any buyer who uses the excuse "not as discribed", the seller will be forced to pay return shipping(no matter what their details or return policy says). So what if they boot a buyer, they just make a new account and start over. Thats the ebay way, ebay will turn their backs just to make a buck.

 

It looks like krslam and Atarileaf know exactly how ebay works. I assume they both sell on ebay as I do. I've sold since 2002 and those two share my resentment for ebay. But where else is a seller to go, no place else has the traffic ebay does. One day ebay will push sellers to far and that'll be it.

Then how would you have Ebay handle the situation when a buyer gets something that is either not as described or damaged? From my perspective as a heavy buyer on Ebay, it doesn't happen alot, but it does happen from time to time and it's not at all fair that I should have to pay return shipping when the item was either misrepresented or damaged as a result of a seller's bad packaging. Frankly, it's come to the point where Ebay has to choose one side or the other and in this case, I think the buyer should get the benefit of the doubt. You're free to disagree, but as a buyer, I have plenty of other options from Amazon to individual retailer websites to forums and everywhere in between and if Ebay becomes less buyer friendly, that just means I will buy less, especially for items that are available elsewhere.

[AtariLeaf]

What happens in the case of "as is" items? How can an item be "not as described" when it's "as is" anyway? Can a buyer argue that a 2600 that's listed as untested and as is which turns out to not work falls under the terms of "not as described"?

[AtariLeaf]

Then how would you have Ebay handle the situation when a buyer gets something that is either not as described or damaged? From my perspective as a heavy buyer on Ebay, it doesn't happen alot, but it does happen from time to time and it's not at all fair that I should have to pay return shipping when the item was either misrepresented or damaged as a result of a seller's bad packaging. Frankly, it's come to the point where Ebay has to choose one side or the other and in this case, I think the buyer should get the benefit of the doubt. You're free to disagree, but as a buyer, I have plenty of other options from Amazon to individual retailer websites to forums and everywhere in between and if Ebay becomes less buyer friendly, that just means I will buy less, especially for items that are available elsewhere.

 

It's the blanket policy that's the issue, there's no case by case basis for judging who's at fault. The seller will ALWAYS be at fault, even when they're not. Again, the problem with blanket policies is that there will be many who take advantage of it.

[AtariLeaf]

I would also suggest that if an item gets damaged in transit by a forklift, you do have control over it.

 

 

 

I've seen a forklift slice through a fridge like butter, pretty sure cardboard and bubblewrap won't help.

[AtariLeaf]

While I agree this may happen at some point to any seller offering hassle free returns, I believe in time if this becomes a common enough occurrence, ebay would likely step in and enforce rules rebuking those repeat offenders. I could see something like the non-paying bidder alerts we file through the resolution center. Once a bidder has returned a predetermined amount of items as "not as described", said bidder would be unable to return any future items, or be banned completely.. Or there could be more mediation added between buyer/ebay/seller that may reveal false returns. Having good pictures and/or video of the items in question, might rule out returns in the future. Ebay has always operated under the caveat emptor motto, and buyer's remorse should not be allowed to enter into a return policy, so I feel ebay will have to listen to sellers if misuse of policies exist.

 

Ebay is typically very lenient with buyers, dumping all the hassles, fee gouging, and horrible policies on sellers. Other than NPB strikes (which creating a new account solves) buyers are free to abuse sellers as they choose.