AtariAge welcomes Philip Price, creator/coder of 'Alternate reality'

[high voltage]

Yes it was released in Europe and was a big seller and very well known. No idea how you missed it!

 

Yeah exactly.....I was following the topic on Retro Gamer forum a while back where somebody mentioned the AR series and Philip Price, and the whole community (including the moderators) dumping on the AR games and Philip Price, nobody in UK heard of him, he's no Mathew Smith.....blah blah blah....

Don't wanna badmouth other forums but they are a short sighted bunch at Retro Gamer.

Edited August 2, 2013 by high voltage

[VladR]

You seem to be forgetting that in 1986 there was no internet. Plus, in eastern europe there were no game magazines (unless you count the hearsay in style of "My friend had a brother who had a friend who heard of guy who saw his friend's cousin who overheard a conversation of two guys allegedly mentioning they saw one magazine"). Thus, any politic agenda of any game magazine - could not possibly - have any other [than a zero] impact.

 

Now, I understand that some games always slip through the cracks - but this game ? This is equivalent of saying that one never heard of Wolfenstein or Doom !!!

 

Out of curiosity, what would be the No 2 game (in terms of impact, technology) in the Atari 800 gamescape ?

[densonj]

LOL. This discussion is getting strange now.

Alternate Reality was certainly (and obviously) a groundbreaking game. Honestly, I don't know how widely distributed it was and of course, Eastern Europe was still isolated behind the iron curtain at the time. I was over there, serving in the US forces at the time. But also, I know it was popular at least in Western European gaming circles. I was a member (at the time) of the Boston Computer Society at MIT and was in contact with a number of Atari fans in Britain and Europe who were blown away by the game. Anyway, AR was the first 3-D rendered RPG in history as far as I know. It was also the first RPG ever to incorporate cinematic features and original musical scores and lyrics AND to play and display the songs in-game. Awesome. For the Atari 8-bit, the game also incorporated more colors and graphic interrupts than almost any game of its time. Absolutely unique. Philip Price, Gary Gilbertson and the rest of the AR crews are rightly remembered as great innovators of the day.

[TMR]

Yeah exactly.....I was following the topic on Retro Gamer forum a while back where somebody mentioned the AR series and Philip Price, and the whole community (including the moderators) dumping on the AR games and Philip Price, nobody in UK heard of him, he's no Mathew Smith.....blah blah blah....

 

Don't wanna badmouth other forums but they are a short sighted bunch at Retro Gamer.

 

You're presumably talking about this thread since it's the only one on the entire board mentioning Philip Price by name, but there's nothing in there "dumping" on the AR games or saying "he's no Matthew Smith" for that matter so you're misrepresenting what was actually said. They hadn't heard of Philip Price or Gary Gilbertson no, but with all due respect to both gentlemen (and apologies to Philip since it's his welcome thread) i've been an A8 user since 1984 but would have had to look both names up...

[Mclaneinc]

(and apologies to Philip since it's his welcome thread) i've been an A8 user since 1984 but would have had to look both names up...

 

Wow that does stun me, I know just how knowledgeable you are on games etc and especially about people involved in them, your help with Frank Gasking's site is superb.

 

Maybe its because to this day most of the Atari games people still just trip off the tongue for me, mind you I was both selling titles and reviewing at the time and with running demo's on the machine daily I guess that's the reason.

 

Sadly I do still find that brit based mags have always tended to avoid the Atari like it never was part of the industry and focusing mainly on the Spectrum, possibly out of some made in Britain nonsense and then the C64.

 

The Atari had a very healthy titles and a very keen user base here in the UK, mostly games were just some inter ports but in many cases the Atari version proved the strongest (Space Invaders kicked out on this one).

 

For me its quite sad that a magazine forum has no idea who or how important Philip Price was with AR, its a defining game and now I know it was all self taught it blows me away even more.

 

But I'll forgive them as they were worshippers of colour clash and no sprites

Edited August 3, 2013 by Mclaneinc

[TMR]

Wow that does stun me, I know just how knowledgeable you are on games etc and especially about people involved in them, your help with Frank Gasking's site is superb.

 

[blush] Aww, that's very sweet of you. =-)

 

Sadly I do still find that brit based mags have always tended to avoid the Atari like it never was part of the industry and focusing mainly on the Spectrum, possibly out of some made in Britain nonsense and then the C64.

 

It's probably more down to sales figures; in the UK, the Spectrum won by a country mile with the C64 was second place during an impressively long run in the market (i was still happily shifting C64s into the 1990s, in fact i think i shifted more of them than i did Atari STs) so, with those owners being a primary audience for anyone buying a British magazine, that's where more of the focus will tend to go. That said, if a writer approaches the magazine with a good pitch, it's not as though they'll say "no" because it's not about a Spectrum game.

 

The Atari had a very healthy titles and a very keen user base here in the UK, mostly games were just some inter ports but in many cases the Atari version proved the strongest (Space Invaders kicked out on this one).

 

That userbase was fragmented though; if you were in the area surrounding an Atari dealer it was great but, for folks like me who got an 800XL in the Dixons stock dump and lived in the back of beyond, nobody carried the specialist magazines, you couldn't get a disk drive anywhere and the indies had at best a couple of dozen games to buy with no display machine in the shop to try purchases beforehand. i wasn't aware that <i>there was</i> a large Atari userbase until Computerworld and talking to you chaps in London.

 

For me its quite sad that a magazine forum has no idea who or how important Philip Price was with AR, its a defining game and now I know it was all self taught it blows me away even more.

 

[shrugs] That's the way these things go, how many Americans know who Brian Jobling or Adam Billyard are i wonder...?

[Mclaneinc]

Adam used to come in to Maplin and show me stuff before release, regular visitor, the last time I saw him was with a pre of a Billiard game that he changed his mind and put on the ST.

 

Still love Bellum and Elektra Glide but Chop Suey was so so..Henri, nice...

 

Brians stuff was mostly not my cuppa but I do like a shooter..

[high voltage]

And very seldom British software sold in USA, but USA software was sold all over the world, mainly in UK and Germany. The Atari XL sold very solid in both of those countries too, I remember buying huge lots of softs from Silica Shop, London.

[snicklin]

When I was young in the Midlands, in the late 80's, the hierarchy of 8-bit ownership as I experienced was: 1) Spectrum 2) Amstrad 3) Commodore 64 4) Atari 5) MSX . I remember a good friend of mine who didn't own a computer and had a poor Mother, he wanted a new computer and was in love with the Atari that I owned. And then his Mother got some inheritance money and said that he could have any computer he wanted (within reason). He chose a Spectrum due to the amount of cassettes our local newsagents held. He regretted it afterwards. Then after all these years, I meet someone like Tezz who talks about what was going on with Atari in the late 80s in Manchester, and I realise that it was such a completely different scene up there, thanks to the Atari shop and Red Rat being there.

[TMR]

And very seldom British software sold in USA, but USA software was sold all over the world, mainly in UK and Germany.

 

There was quite a bit of British software on sale in the USA, Mastertronic had distribution in place both ways whilst Epyx, EA and Mindscape took on C64 titles from System 3, Thalamus and Hewson amongst others; most of the games didn't require much modification apart from fixing specific timings, but Gamebase 64 contains NTSC-specific versions of Delta (under it's American name Delta Patrol) and Wizball which have major modifications to the status displays. A lot of licensed coin-op conversions in the US came out of the UK as well, on the C64 the American versions of Outrun and Thunderblade were just NTSC patched whilst the US-only versions of Afterburner, Sky Shark and Jackal were written in the UK. There just tended to be no fanfare when UK software appeared in the US...

[high voltage]

Except for Elite, which was a number one game in USA, for Apple 2 of course.....

 

 

Guys, you're going off the main subject here....stay on target...

Edited August 3, 2013 by high voltage

[Philip Price]

When I was working on writing games on the Atari 8 bit and had moved on from the shack with a moldy bed , and past the room in the back of the computer dealer, to an apartment with no air conditioning across from a local triplex movie theater there was a movie showing at the triplex called Blade Runner. I would go and pay one dollar to enjoy the air conditioning of the theater and watch ANY movie in order to cool down when there wasn't enough breeze in the apartment. When blade runner showed, the movie manager asked me if I liked it. I said it is better than people probably think it is. It hits deep questions even though most may only see the superficial action. The way it was shot, technical details, all make it more. The local manager kept it showing a little longer(probably a financial mistake on his part). The movie never did make a lot on it's original run. I felt the same about Gattaca, and an unknown movie (that was more oriented to kids) called The Iron Giant. They all have something to them, and those three movies have been recognized, but much later, yet they did not do well when they were released at theaters.

 

All I know is that I am honored that many people who had Atari computers enjoyed the games I created, and that they do remember it after all these years. I also understand how there can be people who never heard of them (especially if they were not Atari 8 bit enthusiasts then). When I was one of the thirty invited guest to the Apple II programmers reunion, whose guest list included Steve Wozniak, I was honored to attend (even though I was really more Atari 8 bit guy). I know one person at the party was offended that I didn't know who they were, while I know others wanted to have a photograph with me. I am not offended when someone doesn't know me even in the industry, for when I was in the industry I only knew those I interacted with regularly. Most people only know what the press states, and the press is fickle and can often manipulate the facts. The fact that thirty years later people who had (and some who still have) the games I wrote have passion for what was done, and have stated their appreciation, is a lot of reward and recognition in itself.

 

Phil

Edited August 3, 2013 by Philip Price

[TMR]

Guys, you're going off the main subject here....stay on target...

 

 

It's a bit rich telling other people to stay on topic when you were the one who drifted off in the first place...

[+Allan]

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/72948-alternate-reality-conference-texts/page__hl__+your%20+atari%20+8‐bit%20+comes%20+alive%20+book#entry893389

 

Link to thread that has a conference with Mr. Price back in 1987.

 

Allan

[Philip Price]

I believe a 'xebec' was also an ancient sailing ship used as a trading vessel. I always thought that the name "City of Xebec's demise" was referring to some spaceship crash site or something.

 

Yes the name Xebec comes from the ancient trading ship. It was also the name of a trading ship(from aliens other than the 'AR' aliens). The 'AR' aliens who are very xenophobic first ran into other races when a trading ship came to them, it crashed (I never fully decided whether the aliens shot it down or something else happened[and perhaps would have the possibilities be one of the factors in Destiny)). Since they are xenophobic, how should they study or deal with these aliens. Curiosity and xenophobia is a curious mix. So they hooked them up and made a virtual world to have the accident survivors live in and let the alien scientists and later curious citizens observe. So those survivors were the start of the city and they named it (as translated into our language) the City of Xebec's Demise. (This is how I had defined it thirty years ago, but as with many things, was keeping that part of the backstory for later reveal)

 

Phil

 

P.S.

Once the aliens became aware of 'alien' races other than their own, then they felt they needed to explore in order to know more about other aliens despite their own xenophobia. For the greatest risk is what you don't know you don't know.

Edited August 3, 2013 by Philip Price

[high voltage]

When I was working on writing games on the Atari 8 bit and had moved on from the shack with a moldy bed , and past the room in the back of the computer dealer, to an apartment with no air conditioning across from a local triplex movie theater there was a movie showing at the triplex called Blade Runner. I would go and pay one dollar to enjoy the air conditioning of the theater and watch ANY movie in order to cool down when there wasn't enough breeze in the apartment. When blade runner showed, the movie manager asked me if I liked it. I said it is better than people probably think it is. It hits deep questions even though most may only see the superficial action. The way it was shot, technical details, all make it more. The local manager kept it showing a little longer(probably a financial mistake on his part). The movie never did make a lot on it's original run. I felt the same about Gattaca, and an unknown movie (that was more oriented to kids) called The Iron Giant. They all have something to them, and those three movies have been recognized, but much later, yet they did not do well when they were released at theaters.

 

All I know is that I am honored that many people who had Atari computers enjoyed the games I created, and that they do remember it after all these years. I also understand how there can be people who never heard of them (especially if they were not Atari 8 bit enthusiasts then). When I was one of the thirty invited guest to the Apple II programmers reunion, whose guest list included Steve Wozniak, I was honored to attend (even though I was really more Atari 8 bit guy). I know one person at the party was offended that I didn't know who they were, while I know others wanted to have a photograph with me. I am not offended when someone doesn't know me even in the industry, for when I was in the industry I only knew those I interacted with regularly. Most people only know what the press states, and the press is fickle and can often manipulate the facts. The fact that thirty years later people who had (and some who still have) the games I wrote have passion what was done and appreciated it, is a lot of reward and recognition in itself.

 

Phil

 

Scramble was (is) my favourite Arcade game, and I purchased a VCS and Super Cobra just to play that, a Scramble clone.

Next I bought an Atari 8-bit/disk drive and The Tail of Beta Lyrae to play an even better Scramble clone.

 

Many thanks for an excellent game (which I still enjoy nowadays).

And of course, AR series, I preferred The Dungeon, spend many, many hours mapping the damn thing :-)

Edited August 3, 2013 by high voltage

[Philip Price]

Scramble was (is) my favourite Arcade game, and I purchased a VCS and Super Cobra just to play that, a Scramble clone.

Next I bought an Atari 8-bit/disk drive and The Tail of Beta Lyrae to play an even better Scramble clone.

 

Many thanks for an excellent game (which I still enjoy nowadays).

And of course, AR series, I preferred The Dungeon, spend many, many hours mapping the damn thing :-)

 

High Voltage,

 

Thank-you for the compliments. When writing the games, as a game player myself (and very poor at the time), I did try to write games that whose game play would keep my own attention for a while. I am glad it did the same for you.

I even enjoy watching videos of Beta Lyrae (I keep saying at points, pull back! pull back!...oh ohh tight spot, got to keep attention, or dang he got lured into shooting that object and couldn't recover position and died), and with AR the stories people can create make the world so much more real.

 

Best,

 

Phil

[bills442]

Phil, I just saw a post from you on another thread about AR, I see this thread is the more appropriate place to express my Awe!

 

I just wanted to thank you for Tail of the Beta Lyrae. I had a legit copy when I was a kid on my a800. I loved that game, played it soooo much. I used to leave it running for mood music. It freaked me out the way the game play would change and I always tried to imagine how it was doing that -- I figured it was writing to the disk or something. I thought the idea was so novel as a kid. Truly an iconic game and a huge part of my childhood.

 

Maybe it's time I check out AR. I never played that.

 

Welcome!!!

Edited August 6, 2013 by bills442

[ricortes]

http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1833271-the-city-of-xebecs-demise/

[eeun]

Mr. Price;

 

It was the summer of '85 or '86 when a friend and I discovered AR. That summer was consumed by phone calls back and forth with each new discovery, and lots of graph paper as we attempted to map out the entire City. I can think of very few titles in the intervening years that have even come close to the thrill and immersion we felt with that game.

 

So I'm very glad to have this opportunity to say Thank You.

 

My original Atari 400, and accompanying disks, are long gone but I held on to all the graph paper maps and manuals. Couldn't bear to get rid of them.

 

[densonj]

http://www.minecraft...-xebecs-demise/

 

Here's the full page, if anyone would like to check it out:

http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1923834-ar-minecraft-extends-mc-152-and-162-with-alternate-reality-style-blocks-secret-doors-and-sounds/

 

[+kheller2]

Here's the full page, if anyone would like to check it out:

http://www.minecraft...ors-and-sounds/

 

 

Wow.. very cool. Reminds me of the Doom engine port my brother and I did. Back then with the doom editor we were using we had to actually tie certain actions together because of system limitations (open a door on one side of the City opened a door on another side).

Edited August 7, 2013 by kheller2

[+kheller2]

Mr. Price,

 

One of the things that always impressed me with The Tail of Beta Lyrae was how it seemed to get harder as you played it -- and I think it actually modified parts of the game disk as you progressed. I also remember playing a pirated copy once that obviously wasn't cracked well enough because the black hole/orbs would always suck you in and make you crash.

[dgiors]

It's truly an honor to have contact with a living legend. Thank you Philip for many years of enjoyment and imagination. Years of my youth were spent fleshing out the AR universe to include tales of battles, heroes and ferocious beasts.

 

Many here seem to be interested in reliving the AR games and I host the download of a project named AR Wrapper by Richard White on my personal website.

 

The downloadable Zip includes an Atari emulator, disk images for The City and The Dungeon, documentation and supports many convenient scripts for quicksaves, automatic disk swaps, accelerated loading times and much much more. It really automates the process of playing the games in their original form.

 

The Wrapper was written by Richard White whom I've not had contact in quite a while. I play tested the system for him and we did our best to discover and squash all the bugs. Since it was developed many years ago today's faster processors will sometimes outpace the engine that injects text strings into the emulator. In the settings menu there are speed options, slower is more reliable.

 

Also IIRC you must run the Wrapper in administrator mode on anything later than Windows XP.

 

The project was developed as freeware and at the time it had been common knowledge among fans that Philip and Gary had released their rights to the disk images for non-commercial use. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

I've been waiting a long time to ask this question of Philip. What was the intended purpose of Acrinimiril's Gate and how does it fit into the story of AR?

Edited August 7, 2013 by dgiors

[riverc0il]

Some of my earliest memories as a kid involve walking downstairs when my dad got home from second shift and watching him play AR: The City. I probably was about four or so at the time. He worked all day, so that was my time with him. I started playing eventually, especially when the Dungeon came out. He'd spend a lot of time building up a character and inevitably, I'd get power thirsty and try to play his character, die, and lose his hard won stat points. I didn't quite "get" experiencing, leveling, and the pain of getting killed and loosing hard fought for stats to come back. The Devourer totally jammed me up back then, had I only known what caused that thing to appear!

 

I've gone back and played through the Dungeon twice on an emulator using a walk through to ensure I discovered every aspect of the game that I missed back then. It is such a rich experience, especially now knowing all the back story.

 

Any ways, a lot of things I've enjoyed in hobbies and interests over the years came from watching dad play The City and later spending a huge amount of time myself in both the City and the Dungeon. I'd put AR Dungeon right up there with Ultima 4 and Ultima 7 as one of my favorite games. It is so much richer knowing the background of what was never to come in the rest of the AR worlds. Phil, I know you wrote that it isn't something you could even think about know, but if you ever do have time and Kickstarted a modern version of AR, I'd be ready to back that with a significant contribution.

 

Thanks so much for giving all of us a great game, a great concept, and all the inspiration and enjoyment we got out of it.