FPGA vs. EMULATION? What is your choice?

[Keatah]

Just get a shuttle DS series set top box or NUC or something similar. They fit anywhere.

 

Anyhow, the last few posts are of the caliber I expect from AA.

[+Zeptari]

Soooooo FPGA or EMULATION?

It's all dependent on the system you want to run?

Right?? Guys?

 

Soo I should just stick with STeem onmy win7 machine?

[Andromeda Stardust]

Soooooo FPGA or EMULATION?

It's all dependent on the system you want to run?

Right?? Guys?

 

Soo I should just stick with STeem onmy win7 machine?

I think we will see as time goes on, FPGA becomes a more viable route for console emulation. A big part of this will come as future models of desktop processors come with on die FPGA cache that software gurus can utilize for whatever purpose. Becoming more mainstream and standardized will also reduce the cost of discrete FPGA chips for use in homebrew or hobbiest hardware.

[Omega-TI]

I dunno about you guys, but I think this here poll need a third option.... THE REAL DEAL.

 

Why settle for an imitation when you can have the real thing." Besides there is less hassle with the real thing, as it's already 100% compatible.

[Keatah]

Soooooo FPGA or EMULATION?

It's all dependent on the system you want to run?

Right?? Guys?

 

Soo I should just stick with STeem onmy win7 machine?

Why not give both a try and see what you like better. Buy a MiST and if you don't like it you can always sell it at minimal loss.

[Keatah]

If the real deal was an option everyone would pick that. And we wouldn't have a thread to discuss the better (or worse) points of each method of recreating the classics.

 

It's clear that reliable original hardware is going up in price and requires too many hoops for the very very casual user or newcomer to get involved.

 

Software Emu and FPGA ease the newcomer's burden considerably. And sometime in the future it'll be the only practical way to to play yesteryears' games. With these two methods I'm prepared myself to have the classics available for the next 30 years. And they're ready to be "handed down", if such a thing applies here, without dealing with trunkloads of paraphernalia. An underbed sweater box is all that's needed.

[English Invader]

My only experience with FPGA is the GB Boy Colour (Chinese hardware clone of the Gameboy Color) and I've been very happy with it. Apart from a few glitches in sound here and there, it's 100% compatible (including Everdrive GB) and even has features that go beyond what the original GBC offered like a DS quality backlight. One of my biggest complaints with GB/GBA hardware is that there is no backlighting in the screens or they're too small to comfortably use - the GB Boy Color fixes all of that.

 

I've also been looking into NES/Famicom clones because I want to play US/Japanese games and to do that on the real hardware I would need an RGB modded NTSC NES or Famicom because a PAL NES can't be modded for 60Hz and RGB is the only way a PAL television can display NTSC signals correctly. The Super Famicom was so much easier to branch out to because it supports RGB output off the bat but the NES/Famicom requires a very expensive mod solution.

 

I guess my opinion here is that, for some of the less powerful systems, FPGA is viable option for people who want a console experience but either can't afford the real deal or require features that are unavailable in the original hardware design. I wouldn't trust it for anything beyond 8-bit at this stage though from what I've seen of the Mega Drive/Genesis clones.

 

One thing I would like to see is an Atari Lynx clone with all 72 commercially released games built into the hardware.

Edited April 10, 2016 by English Invader

[Andromeda Stardust]

^^NES is composite only. Some PAL TVs can handle NTSC composite sources in addition to PAL50 and PAL60; they just won't work with NTSC RF. If you get a grayscale picture, then your set is not compatible with NTSC color standard.

 

You may also want to get an AVS from RetroUSB when it drops later this year. It is a true FPGA NES with 720p HDMI output, can switch PAl and NTSC modes, works with all NES/Famicom accessories, and has a built in four score. Just don't expect your lightgun to work with HDTV flat panels.

[Keatah]

Software emulation is always going to develop at a faster pace and have more features. And bugs will be fixed faster. FPGA rigs will tend to be turnkey console-like experiences, but bugs will take longer to get fixed because these are niche within a niche products.

[English Invader]

Software emulation is always going to develop at a faster pace and have more features. And bugs will be fixed faster. FPGA rigs will tend to be turnkey console-like experiences, but bugs will take longer to get fixed because these are niche within a niche products.

 

There are plenty of emulators that haven't seen any development in recent years - N64, Jaguar and Lynx emulation still leave a lot to be desired and even SNES emulation isn't quite bang on for some of the faster games. And when you bear in mind that no one gets a paycheck for emulator development, I wouldn't expect too much.

[Keatah]

Software emulators are written for love of the hobby. A better job is going to be done because of it.

 

There are emulators adding new features all the time like Altirra, Vice, WinUAE, MAME, Stella, ePSXe, and others no doubt.

[+Zeptari]

I think I'll just get a Pi3. I have everything I need lying around the house to get me up and going quickly.

I'm in no rush., warmer weather is around the corner, and I really need to get outside.

So yes $35 raspberry pi 3 sounds like the right option for me. Atari ST and Mame and maybe colecovision

are the top 3 I'd like to run.

[Newsdee]

To me the choice isn't exclusive. Even if you get an FPGA box, chances are you also have a PC to run any emulator that you want. The Rpi is also cheap enough that getting one to try is rather low risk.

 

That said a good FPGA is expensive, so from a pure end user standpoint it might be lacking. You have to check the status of each core to see if its good enough to be useful for you (think: each core is a separate project).

 

Of course if you're curious about dabbling with HDL it's a different story. The "gaming" FPGA boards are cheaper than dev kits so can be a nice entry point.

[+Zeptari]

I did it. The Pi3 is on its way. I just copyed NOOBS to a 16GB SD card. And gathered everything I need, except a usb mouse.

Now I just have to play the waiting game. I'm reading through the first 30 issues of Magpi magazine. Which are all free to read online!

Any tips for me ?

Edited April 18, 2016 by Zeptari1

[phoenixdownita]

I did it. The Pi3 is on its way. I just copyed NOOBS to a 16GB SD card. And gathered everything I need, except a usb mouse.

Now I just have to play the waiting game. I'm reading through the first 30 issues of Magpi magazine. Which are all free to read online!

Any tips for me ?

For retro bliss drop NOOBS and go here:

https://retropie.org.uk/download/

prepare a wired XB360 or a PS3 controller (with the USB cable) and you'll be set.

[by any means read the Docs in the retropie website so you'll know how much it is done already for you]

[+Zeptari]

I already have a wired 360 controller. So thanks for the links. The Pi3 will be in my hands tomorrow. So excited.

[+Zeptari]

I'm all setup with Rasbian and installed Hatari for now. Just getting used to this combo over my old win7 and Steem combo.

Moslty loading .msa D-bug disks for now. I really want mount a virtual hard disk image. But for now I'm having a blast.

 

I think I'll get another micro sd card I can dedicate to a mame setup in the future, so thanks for the link.

[English Invader]

I'm all setup with Rasbian and installed Hatari for now. Just getting used to this combo over my old win7 and Steem combo.

Moslty loading .msa D-bug disks for now. I really want mount a virtual hard disk image. But for now I'm having a blast.

 

I think I'll get another micro sd card I can dedicate to a mame setup in the future, so thanks for the link.

 

Setting up a virtual hard drive couldn't be easier on Hatari. Go into hard disks in the main menu, choose GEMDOS drive and use the file browser to link your chosen file to the emulator.

[+Zeptari]

Thanks for the tip! It worked like a champ. Emulation with Hatari on a Pi3 works super smooth.

I have access to a cnc laser so I'm working on an acrylic case for it. I'll post a picture when I'm done.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Please do share it when you are done.

 

Here's my Retro Pie MAME Setup:

http://stardust4ever.deviantart.com/art/Raspberry-Pi-Arcade-DK-playing-DK-535882030

 

Special Shoutout to Retrobuiltgames.com for their awesome Porta Pi kits!

http://retrobuiltgames.com/

[iwasaperson]

We need cheap FPGA PCIe cards for PCs so we can all have perfect emulation.

[Keatah]

..so that we may use the power and versatility of the pc host, filing system, and storage capacity. Along with internet convenience and capability.

[+Zeptari]

Here it is. Snap no glue design. I can't take all the credit for it. I downloaded a dxf file based on the original Pi edited for for 1/8" material and the Pi3 new hole locations.

Came out pretty good. I had to file some edges and bore some holes larger to make it all fit. I'll take some new measurements and update the dxf file so all the new ones run to fit it perfectly.

[Blues76]

After reading this complete thread, what I can take away that there is no one solution that fits-all, like in most problems.

 

I think is great that we can have both (Hardware and Software Emulation). If something is not able to be reproduced by an FPGA at this point, a complimentary software piece may help.

The one part that I see FPGA may be better in some instances is that it doesn't have all the extra baggage that computer has (e.g., OS). So, it can be dedicated to the one purpose I need at a given time (atari 8-bit...)

 

Anyways, I think is great to have both and I look forward to get the MIST as soon as I'm able.

[Keatah]

Software emulation seems more adept at supporting virtual peripherals, or, rather, adding their functionality to on-screen results. Like an 80-column card, or a clock card. Memory, CPU, sound, and graphic upgrades are no sweat either. With disk drive simulation being easiest of all. Emulator Altirra & Emulator WinUAE are good examples of this versatility.

This sort of thing is lacking in FPGA implementations.

As far as FPGA being dedicated hardware - true enough. But a minimalist configuration of any contemporary OS on standard PC would serve the same purpose AND provide extra amenities like file handling and organizational capabilities.

 

(you can tell I strongly favor software emulation, yes?)

Edited December 27, 2016 by Keatah