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#51 RevEng OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:20 AM

The one doesn't exclude the other.


Fair enough. One doesn't imply the other either, and in fact being an homage is a secondary message that can dilute your parody commentary on the original work.

 

So how is PR a parody of SMB, and how was this missed by IGN and other online reviewers?

 

I'm not trying to be inflammatory. I just don't want homebrewers to think that making a derivative work that qualifies for fair-use exemption is as easy as demaking an existing title and saying "its a parody".



#52 108 Stars OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:50 PM

This is what concerns me. P.R. is clearly paying tribute to SMB but is also clearly NOT based off of the big Ns assets.  I don't care how similar something is as long as it doesn't create brand confusion.  No one except that confused troll was confused when they bought Sprybugs work.


It doesn't have to be the original assets. It is the same compositions, and the sprite work clearly depicts Mario. Imagine the music industry, you can't go out and just release a CD with your own cover version of Thriller and say it's different, because it is not the recording done by Michael Jackson.

Seeing how close the Mario sprite looks to SMB 3, and hearing the great renditions of the SMB soundtrack on the 2600 is definitely the selling point.

I agree that it's a tribute to the game, and won't hurt the brand, or cut into sales of official Mario games... but with the attention the game got I guess Nintendo just had to react, see David Crane's comments in the thread about Pitfall for Lynx. A copyright holder is required to interfere with such infringements if he learns off them, or else he can lose the copyright.

It's sad, but that's the way it is. AA should not sell such games in the future, and if homebrewers want to make such tributes they should just share the ROM. I am sure people can get cartridges made for themselves in private without drawing attention.

#53 Dan Iacovelli OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:02 PM

in the music industry when another artist sings a song done by another its called a cover song,  an example that comes to me is Money (that is what I want) which was done originally by Barrett Strong

and  then song by beatles and a another cover was done on a tiny toons record sand by the voice of Montana Max(Danny cooksy) all of wish are homages to the orignal.



#54 108 Stars OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:18 PM

in the music industry when another artist sings a song done by another its called a cover song,  an example that comes to me is Money (that is what I want) which was done originally by Barrett Strong
and  then song by beatles and a another cover was done on a tiny toons record sand by the voice of Montana Max(Danny cooksy) all of wish are homages to the orignal.


Yes, but what I mean to say is that all cover songs are licensed. The owner of the rights gets paid.

If you copy parts of a song without license, your in for a lawsuit. It has often happened that people had experts hired for an expert assessment because of some accords of a new song resembling another one too much, eventually going to court.

#55 tremoloman2006 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:33 PM

I think it's pretty clear that PR is an homage, rather than a parody. I haven't seen the manual, but unless there's satire or parody inside, it won't fly.

Of course, one could also rewrite the manual so the main character is "Nintendough Lawyer Man", and he stomps on "Hard Shelled Homebrewers". Change the princess into a big dollar, and you have your parody.

IMO it's not worth it to go up against Nintendough's lawyers, but if anyone involved wanted to double-down and count on media support, that's the way to go.

 

That is genius!  I'm sure if we asked Rush to use the song "Big Money" as the theme music they would allow it.  How fitting!

 

 

I love how they parody Monopoly... wonder if they got sued.  Guess not... people had common sense back in the 80s.

 

"Sometimes pushing people around
Sometimes pulling out the rug
Sometimes pushing all the buttons
Sometimes pulling out the plug
It's the power and the glory
It's a war in paradise
It's a cinderella story
On a tumble of the dice"



#56 Dan Iacovelli OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:37 PM

lets just be glad the rom is out there for people to get play on emu or on 2600 with a Flash cart like harmony.

and there is nothing stopping others from making their own cart on it now (before I can see why  because Spry didn't want to go out that way)

it's basically the same reason why Idecied to let people d/l my laserman games to play on emu or  harmony

but if they want al to make a custom cart for them selves they can also long they use my labels and instructions.



#57 Sir Guntz OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:55 PM


but if they want al to make a custom cart for them selves they can also long they use my labels and instructions.

 

Could you elaborate on that?



#58 Dan Iacovelli OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:00 PM

 

Could you elaborate on that?

Al also lets you do custom carts, so say you have my laserman 88 rom  and you want a cart

you send al the rom for the cart but you can not make your own labels or instrustructions

I would have send you the the images for for the labels (top and front) and the instructions

then you send them to al to put produce.



#59 Sir Guntz OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:11 PM

Would you say since Princess Rescue carts are now contraband, that means custom carts are allowed? On the purchase page, it says to not place an order without permission to use a particular ROM.



#60 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:14 PM

What 108 Stars said.



#61 108 Stars OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:15 PM

There are plenty of people with the neccessary soldering skills to build cartridges themselves. No need to depend on AA for that.

#62 Sir Guntz OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:20 PM

Only one problem, I have no idea what is required to make a 32K cartridge. If I knew, I could probably just make one myself.



#63 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:24 PM

Only one problem, I have no idea what is required to make a 32K cartridge. If I knew, I could probably just make one myself.

 

I don't know how much we can discus that in this thread.  We're lucky the ROM is still up.

 

Just my opinion.



#64 108 Stars OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:52 PM

I don't know how much we can discus that in this thread.  We're lucky the ROM is still up.
 
Just my opinion.


Wise words. Repro talk should be handled in private to play safe, wouldn't want to stirr up more trouble.

#65 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:14 PM

Would you say since Princess Rescue carts are now contraband, that means custom carts are allowed? On the purchase page, it says to not place an order without permission to use a particular ROM.

If Sprybug gives Albert consent to produce unauthorized copies of Princess Rescue, I don't see what the harm is. Nintendo is not going to go undercover and sign up for the forums so they can PM Albert to produce a bootleg Princess Rescue ROM. I serously doubt Nintendo would stoop to running sting operations, but Nintendo as a company could potentially do this and order said product, then open the package in court or by a postal inspector, to prove Albert violated the gag/C&D order by selling underground, though that would be a lot of trouble to bust a smallish operation. RIAA does something similar by downloading copyright-infringing files from private users. It's like undercover cops attempting to buy drugs from street dealers as a part of a sting operation. The undercover law officer technically commits a crime by attempting to buy drugs, but they're not prosecuted for it since it is part of their official duties. But normally companies usually target the big pirate operations before they go after the small fries.


Edited by stardust4ever, Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:19 PM.


#66 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:21 PM

If y'all still want an awesome platformer then consider encouraging Sprybug to find out where the "infringing" items are and remove them.  I think the game stands on its own.



#67 mkiker2089 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:26 PM

If y'all still want an awesome platformer then consider encouraging Sprybug to find out where the "infringing" items are and remove them.  I think the game stands on its own.

 

Couldn't agree more. I'm not claiming to know how to program but it doesn't seem like it would be too hard to remove the music and alter the main character a little. Make it a skinny person perhaps.

 

I'm still willing to bet good money that it's the music that tipped them off.



#68 108 Stars OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:41 PM

Music and main character sprite are the problems obviously, maybe changing some enemies would be good too to be safe. Ironically the dev says he had suggested doing that to Albert prior to release but he declined. ^^



#69 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:31 AM

You know it's kind of ironic but a similar thing happened back in the day on the Commodore 64, Amiga, and a few other platforms. Somebody created a Mario clone with "jump on enemy" physics, called it Great Giana Sisters, and released it on popular 80s computer platforms. Nintendo sued and got the game pulled from the market, but not before copies got leaked everywhere. C64 gamers everywhere started distributing bootleg floppy copies of the game. Then everyone started releasing jump-on-enemy-to-defeat styled platformers, some of which were good, others not so much. Fast foreward to 2008, Giana Sisters gets limited release on DS in Europe (I imported the game from a German reseller - German packaginge but the in game text is English) and much later it released stateside. Now there's also a brand new Wii-ware Giana title too. I guess Giana Sisters could be considered a non-infringing homage to Super Mario Brothers whereas Princess Rescue contains offending graphics/audio. I would incourage Sprybug to rerelease this game with altered graphics and audio, perhaps if the princess goes on a quest to rescue a plumber, then that will make it a parody or homage rather than a blatant clone.

#70 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:09 AM

If the game gets released with different graphics I opt for replacing Mario with Giana.



#71 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:43 AM

If the game gets released with different graphics I opt for replacing Mario with Giana.

 

Giana we can probably get proper rights to.  At least re-release with original characters.  In my mind this is the next step.  Communicate what the exact complaint is and fix it.



#72 PFL OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:53 AM

If the game gets released with different graphics I opt for replacing Mario with Giana.


Ha! I was just about to post the same suggestion. That would be pretty cool. Especially if the music was also changed to the Giana Sisters theme. The guy behind the Great Giana Sisters sadly died recently but I'm sure the team who recently did the Kickstarter project would see the humour in this idea. :)

#73 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:17 AM

Ha! I was just about to post the same suggestion. That would be pretty cool. Especially if the music was also changed to the Giana Sisters theme. The guy behind the Great Giana Sisters sadly died recently but I'm sure the team who recently did the Kickstarter project would see the humour in this idea. :)

 

That would remove the legal issues surrounding the cease & desist PLUS tell the big N that you can't kill good platformers!  The Giana Sisters are still alive and we can be too!

 

Albert has the pull and Sprybug knows his code.  How about it?



#74 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:18 AM

Just make the main character a girl and change her name to Maria and call it done. Source the background audio from some old public domain folk tunes from the 1800s. Then recycle the old Red Plumber sprite to replace the princess.


Edited by stardust4ever, Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:19 AM.


#75 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:29 AM

Just make the main character a girl and change her name to Maria and call it done. Source the background audio from some old public domain folk tunes from the 1800s. Then recycle the old Red Plumber sprite to replace the princess.

 

That could be done.  I think it would have a bigger impact if we contact Spellbound Entertainment GmbH and get permission to make it an official Giana Sisters game.  Think about it:  one of the first platformers to get bullied out of existence is still alive.  By attempting to stifle a tribute game they instead led a huge fanbase to create MORE momentum for something they couldn't kill.

 

That sends a message.  Right now we have silence.

 

What say you Albert?  Sprybug?  Should we remove "offending" materiel, re-incarnate as Giana Sisters or do nothing?  I'll follow wherever you lead.






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