VGA Grading

[ianoid]

 

 

It's easy to hate mong on the 'net. We throw around 'hate' with aplomb on the net, but say that far less to anyone in person.

 

When you look at the casing of your goods, that is worth something. The grading is here to stay. Whine all you want. And there will be errors and problems. They are human and they are dealing with relatively cheap items.

 

It is actually a reasonable way to protect and preserve valuable collectibles if you don't want them to be damaged with time- encasing them in acrylic. The grading is of value to some folks, certainly not on just any item. But let's not ignore the actual cost of making an acrylic case. Assuming it costs about $40 to grade an item, I could imagine $25 of that is getting a case made- at least on the retail side. It probably costs them $3. I don't begrudge services a profit.

I don't hate grading, I hate a grader that can't even determine the media in which the product they are grading is. The last thing I want to pay for is a grader's learning curve. They're not doing us a favor at cost. I thought I saw a post (search Google) in which the costs are $70-100 for one game. And you say these games are relatively cheap! Video games go from $5 to $50k, so I have no idea of what you call cheap.

Raises prices is one thing but I love standards and repeatable grading, "They are human"! That makes no sense. They're in business to be accurate, hence the grading.

 

 

I understand if you call that error unforgivable. It also shows that when you demand a service, it's best to stick the provider's core service. As you say, perhaps they are stepping too far outside their comfort zone. Grading NES games is one thing. Grading classic computer stuff is another much more complicated practice that requires more homework that they are clearly not doing. I agree with you fully. Is that your graded item? Where did you get those pictures.

 

My comment about 'hate' was related to the post above mine. I should have quoted it.

 

And just look up the cost of grading on their website, standard sized games aren't that expensive to grade, with a long turn around time. All the panic and hearsay makes it seem like these things are pathetically expensive. It's not that expensive, and if you sell the right items, you can at least get the cost of grading out of your item. If you grade a demo disc, good luck! Archival is becoming a bigger interest for collectors. I think 15 years ago we would have balked at buying box protectors at $1 a pop. Now folks buy cases for $10 and reproduction boxes for $40.

 

The markets change. I'm not saying grading is the next best thing, but we've resisted change that has been inevitable- like online and offline price guides and eBay at every corner telling everyone offline what prices should be. Unfortunately, grading is becoming more popular. It may never dominate our hobby because we like to play our games. But it may represent a disproportionate portion of the economy of the hobby of collecting at some point.

 

Sorry if I'm too OT!

Edited September 3, 2013 by ianoid

[Atari8bitCarts]

I understand if you call that error unforgivable. It also shows that when you demand a service, it's best to stick the provider's core service. As you say, perhaps they are stepping too far outside their comfort zone. Grading NES games is one thing. Grading classic computer stuff is another much more complicated practice that requires more homework that they are clearly not doing. I agree with you fully. Is that your graded item? Where did you get those pictures.

 

My comment about 'hate' was related to the post above mine. I should have quoted it.

 

And just look up the cost of grading on their website, standard sized games aren't that expensive to grade, with a long turn around time. All the panic and hearsay makes it seem like these things are pathetically expensive. It's not that expensive, and if you sell the right items, you can at least get the cost of grading out of your item. If you grade a demo disc, good luck! Archival is becoming a bigger interest for collectors. I think 15 years ago we would have balked at buying box protectors at $1 a pop. Now folks buy cases for $10 and reproduction boxes for $40.

 

The markets change. I'm not saying grading is the next best thing, but we've resisted change that has been inevitable- like online and offline price guides and eBay at every corner telling everyone offline what prices should be. Unfortunately, grading is becoming more popular. It may never dominate our hobby because we like to play our games. But it may represent a disproportionate portion of the economy of the hobby of collecting at some point.

 

Sorry if I'm too OT!

I guess anyone these days can be "An expert". I tried going to their website but it was "down" for a couple days. It wasn't even pingable from two different carriers (I check since providers can have DSN issues). But someone here said they paid $70 for a grading?

Maybe I should start "grading", I can find some cool protectors, make some nice labels, throw together a very loose standard and guidline.

If VGA truely doesn't understand video games, they shouldn't be grading them. It's like going to your butcher for fuel pump recommendations.

[Andre81]

Archival is becoming a bigger interest for collectors. I think 15 years ago we would have balked at buying box protectors at $1 a pop. Now folks buy cases for $10 and reproduction boxes for $40.

 

Ian is right here. Archival and preservation is actually my main interest in collecting. Nobody knows if in 50 years Atari games are considered junk or a rare collectible, so as an investment a collection is a bit risky.

 

Grading makes sense and acrylic cases as well. What doesn't make sense is to get a common $10 game graded and then list it for $399.

 

But there is a simple solution: Don't buy anything from these sellers. If they've wasted enough money they will stop. As long as someone buys 1 out of 10 of their games they will continue.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Andre81

[Atari8bitCarts]

 

Ian is right here. Archival and preservation is actually my main interest in collecting. Nobody knows if in 50 years Atari games are considered junk or a rare collectible, so as an investment a collection is a bit risky.

 

Grading makes sense and acrylic cases as well. What doesn't make sense is to get a common $10 game graded and then list it for $399.

 

But there is a simple solution: Don't buy anything from these sellers. If they've wasted enough money they will stop. As long as someone buys 1 out of 10 of their games they will continue.

I don't understand your train of thought. "Nobody knows if in 50 years.... " Grading and apprasial have nothing to do with future worth. It's a snap shot for that moment. Game experts understand what is in demand, quantities in circulation, quality of those, etc. That's what you pay them to be an expert for. Validation of that game by a grader is not an option. That would be the bare minimum they should know to grade it. To be able to title it correctly. But they should be able to guarntee that grade of the contents at some level. If someone gives them a resealed box (I'm not sure they would even know) and the cartridge inside doesn't match or junk, that would suck. And I would hold the grader responsible.

Now if someone grades a common cart and asks for a lot, that is their business and you could avoid them. I'm pissed at the crappy inaccurate etc grading. That can't be taken seriously, and that will hurt in the long run quality assessment of our collectiables.

[theatarifan]

I hate vga they could be wrong. I rather the sealed game in a plastic case looks a lot better.

[Andre81]

I don't understand your train of thought. "Nobody knows if in 50 years.... " Grading and apprasial have nothing to do with future worth. It's a snap shot for that moment. Game experts understand what is in demand, quantities in circulation, quality of those, etc. That's what you pay them to be an expert for. Validation of that game by a grader is not an option. That would be the bare minimum they should know to grade it. To be able to title it correctly. But they should be able to guarntee that grade of the contents at some level. If someone gives them a resealed box (I'm not sure they would even know) and the cartridge inside doesn't match or junk, that would suck. And I would hold the grader responsible.

Now if someone grades a common cart and asks for a lot, that is their business and you could avoid them. I'm pissed at the crappy inaccurate etc grading. That can't be taken seriously, and that will hurt in the long run quality assessment of our collectiables.

 

My point is that grading and the acrylic cases are currently only seen as a way to increase the value and to make money. It is abused by a few sellers that try to rip off new collectors.

 

For archival and preservation reasons and for true collectors grading and cases with UV protection make sense.

 

If you have a rare sealed game it is going to stay sealed and you want to preserve the conditon. If you pay $500 for a sealed game you want to be sure it is not resealed. So paying a small premium ($25 would be ok) for grading, authentication and an acrylic case makes sense.

 

How much that game is worth now after grading or in the future shouldn't be the motivation to get something graded.

[Atari8bitCarts]

 

My point is that grading and the acrylic cases are currently only seen as a way to increase the value and to make money. It is abused by a few sellers that try to rip off new collectors.

 

For archival and preservation reasons and for true collectors grading and cases with UV protection make sense.

 

If you have a rare sealed game it is going to stay sealed and you want to preserve the conditon. If you pay $500 for a sealed game you want to be sure it is not resealed. So paying a small premium ($25 would be ok) for grading, authentication and an acrylic case makes sense.

 

How much that game is worth now after grading or in the future shouldn't be the motivation to get something graded.

I think we are going in circles and agree but the whole purpose that I started this topic is not understood by your response.

 

- Grading can be of value. But by a certified expert, VGA can't even get the title and media correct.

- Regardless of having a product graded, a person can ask for more than it is worth. That occurs daily.

- Putting a game in a sealed case, UV protected, etc is good for maintaining it, no dispute.

- Grading, by a legitimate and accurate source can increase it's value, but only if the source is an expert. VGA is not clearly.

 

I feel sorry for the people that actually think VGA is adding any value to the process or their game.

 

I can see VGA's disclaimer now:

We cannot be held liable for any information, including but not limited to it's name, condition, the mfg, accuracy, etc, in which we provide regarding our grade of your product. And since it is in a box we have absolutely no idea what it is. And the box could in fact have come right from the factory floor and we still wouldn't know what to compare it to therefore 80-90 seems like a good number. Unless you pay more for our service, then your grade goes up. :)

[bojay1997]

I think we are going in circles and agree but the whole purpose that I started this topic is not understood by your response.

 

- Grading can be of value. But by a certified expert, VGA can't even get the title and media correct.

- Regardless of having a product graded, a person can ask for more than it is worth. That occurs daily.

- Putting a game in a sealed case, UV protected, etc is good for maintaining it, no dispute.

- Grading, by a legitimate and accurate source can increase it's value, but only if the source is an expert. VGA is not clearly.

 

I feel sorry for the people that actually think VGA is adding any value to the process or their game.

 

I can see VGA's disclaimer now:

We cannot be held liable for any information, including but not limited to it's name, condition, the mfg, accuracy, etc, in which we provide regarding our grade of your product. And since it is in a box we have absolutely no idea what it is. And the box could in fact have come right from the factory floor and we still wouldn't know what to compare it to therefore 80-90 seems like a good number. Unless you pay more for our service, then your grade goes up. :)

I'm not someone that would ever use VGA or any other grading service, nor do I think grading is really needed in video game collecting. Having said that, there are some people that do feel a need for it primarily because when buying and selling expensive items, they want some assurance that the representations being made by the seller are accurate and consistent with some general scale. Similarly, not every game, even off the factory floor would be considered "mint" as errors can occur and packaging can be damaged in manufacturing, shipment and at the retail level.

 

I personally don't like grading and think it has created a temporary value bubble that will hurt all collectors in the long run. I also agree that just grading a box and wrap is pretty pointless in the overall scheme of things which makes video game grading sort of limited and not comprehensive like comic or coin or stamp grading would be. Having said all that, I don't agree that VGA engages in fraudulent conduct as you seem to be implying. They are simply providing a service that some collectors choose to use. VGA grading has been discussed on many forums and there are plenty of critics and fans out there, but other than this particular error, I haven't seen too many similar examples of VGA errors and they have now graded thousands of games. Ultimately, it's going to be the marketplace that determines if grading has value or not. For me it doesn't, but then again I wouldn't pay thousands of dollars for any video game, regardless of condition or rarity.

[ianoid]

I guess anyone these days can be "An expert". I tried going to their website but it was "down" for a couple days. It wasn't even pingable from two different carriers (I check since providers can have DSN issues). But someone here said they paid $70 for a grading?

Maybe I should start "grading", I can find some cool protectors, make some nice labels, throw together a very loose standard and guidline.

If VGA truely doesn't understand video games, they shouldn't be grading them. It's like going to your butcher for fuel pump recommendations.

It's true. You should start your own grading company. Start cutting that acrylic!

 

Let me point out, since clearly most of you are shooting from the hip, that the submission process allows you to specify the format and details of the game. Some verification may occur, but I wouldn't expect them to know everything. You could try to intentionally deceive them by putting erroneous information into the submission forms. Of course, that would be an expensive experiment. So I still haven't gotten an answer. Is that your item you had graded? I don't think so. I only ask because I doubt you have an understanding of the submission process. It could have been entered as a submission for a floppy disk just as easily as the grader could have made a mistake. Whether anyone can fully verify the authenticity of an item is a matter of experience, but even experts can be deceived. Our prized video games are merely being graded the same way as sealed toys are. Is that practice similarly as foolhardy?

 

I think we are rather short sighted as video game collectors. To get some perspective, it makes sense to look at the toy and comic collecting hobbies. There is little reason for us to believe that our hobby will be terribly different from those in the long term. And I'm sure comic purists think that grading is totally stupid because then- how will you read the comic? Or play with the toy? As it turns out, graded stuff does have more value to both comic and toy collectors.

 

I'm not sure what the answers are, but all the anger about grading, like most anger on the 'net, is largely unfounded. I think its more denial than anything. Things are headed the same way as other collecting hobbies. I'm sorry to bring the bad news. But frankly I don't think it's that bad, even if it's a bumpy road.

 

@Bojay1997 Dig your measured response.

 

ian

Edited September 4, 2013 by ianoid

[Andre81]

How can a box with such damage get a near mint+ grade?

 

[Atari8bitCarts]

How can a box with such damage get a near mint+ grade?

 

That's terrible! How could they. The higher you pay, the higher the grade

[Andre81]

That's terrible! How could they. The higher you pay, the higher the grade

 

Their grading system totally defeats the purpose of grading. A box with such damage shouldn't qualify for a "Gold level", no matter how mint the rest of the box is.

 

I guess they need to get their eyes checked.

 

 

The VGA Gold level consists of the grades 100, 95+, 95, 90+, 90, and 85+. When an items condition warrants classification within this level, the smallest of flaws are judged and taken into account to determine the exact grade received. The select few items which receive these grades are among the highest quality in existence. A very small percentage of items submitted to VGA receive a Gold level grade. An items flaws must be very minor, subtle, and can often be difficult to identify with the naked eye. A collector who is extremely condition sensitive should be satisfied with the condition of a Gold level item in the vast majority of instances.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Andre81

[Rhomaios]

I don't know what's the bigger joke: VGA or people defending VGA. This company routinely makes mistakes, and a case sealed in plastic cases are unable to be utilized properly. What's the point? This whole endeavor is stupid.

 

For crying out loud, they can't even use proper punctuation. It's "an item's flaws" not "an items flaws". Seriously, the people running this thing are a bunch of schemers (just some nobodies who decided to start it up: look it up), and anyone who buys into it is a naive fool.

[TPA5]

If people want to pay money for an acrylic box and gold-sticker from someone, hey more power to them. If they then want to go and charge $399 dollars for a common game, they can go crazy. It's part of participating in a free-market. If someone wants to pay $399 for a common game in an acrylic box, they can do it. Ultimately, it's not my money nor my concern. I mean hey, I buy whole wheat bread. Maybe you buy white bread, or even rye bread. Point is, as long as you're satisfied with the bread you make a sandwich with, does it really matter what bread other people get?

 

 

(I should really wait to make analogies until after I eat lunch)

[+wood_jl]

I think the VGA thing is the biggest hoax ever perpetrated upon the gaming public. But hey, they're making money from it, so they (VGA) are not to blame for serving a fool clientele that's ready to be separated from their money.

[Atari8bitCarts]

I think the VGA thing is the biggest hoax ever perpetrated upon the gaming public. But hey, they're making money from it, so they (VGA) are not to blame for serving a fool clientele that's ready to be separated from their money.

It's bigger than that. Yes, they are making money. But they are impacting the collecting market, regardless. If you are a legitimate collector and say 'X' and a pay-for-hire source says 'Y', it always creates friction.

There are no standards, at least that I haven't seen them publish....

[Atari8bitCarts]

If people want to pay money for an acrylic box and gold-sticker from someone, hey more power to them. If they then want to go and charge $399 dollars for a common game, they can go crazy. It's part of participating in a free-market. If someone wants to pay $399 for a common game in an acrylic box, they can do it. Ultimately, it's not my money nor my concern. I mean hey, I buy whole wheat bread. Maybe you buy white bread, or even rye bread. Point is, as long as you're satisfied with the bread you make a sandwich with, does it really matter what bread other people get?

 

 

(I should really wait to make analogies until after I eat lunch)

Wait unitl someone says your whole wheat bread sucks when you go to sell a slice

[Atari_Bill]

I personally despise the practice and believe it to be the worst thing that can happen to a hobby. Fortunately it's still on the fringe of this one. I'm hopeful that it doesn't take hold like it did with comics and cards. If it does, I'll walk away. I absolutely detest the money and greed it brings into every hobby it touches.

[Rhomaios]

Ultimately, it's not my money nor my concern. I mean hey, I buy whole wheat bread. Maybe you buy white bread, or even rye bread. Point is, as long as you're satisfied with the bread you make a sandwich with, does it really matter what bread other people get?

 

 

(I should really wait to make analogies until after I eat lunch)

 

Unfortunately, that analogy doesn't hold too well, considering that old video games are a limited supply, and bread is virtually limitless. But imagine if some people started buying bread, putting it into an acrylic container, and then reselling it, causing your favorite type of bread's price to go up over time.

[TPA5]

Wait unitl someone says your whole wheat bread sucks when you go to sell a slice

 

 

 

Unfortunately, that analogy doesn't hold too well, considering that old video games are a limited supply, and bread is virtually limitless. But imagine if some people started buying bread, putting it into an acrylic container, and then reselling it, causing your favorite type of bread's price to go up over time.

 

Okay, okay, so it seemed like a better analogy when I was hungry.

Edited July 16, 2014 by TPA5