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#51 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:13 PM

 

There is no double standard at all.  The F18A IS available, so people do care and give it the time of day.  The SAMS card, or anything remotely like it, is unobtainable to the "REAL TI" (un-emulated) masses... so who gives a rip.  I'm not going to waste my energy on something that does not exist.  If you start making SAMS cards (like someone else suggested) and start selling them so people can actually buy one, people might start listening.   You work 100% of the time in an EMULATED ENVIRONMENT, so you can create whatever NON-TI environment you want, that's cool, but I don't care.  If it's not available on my TI, I'm not going to care or waste any time on it. 

 

I'm done with this topic, I do not want to argue something that has no meaning to me.

So again anything I write can work on a normal TI if you have a GRAM device or GENEVE, something else you are not interested in so poo poo that too along with the SAMS.

 

Why not stick to the freaking console and no cart at all if you are such a purist. Or should I say a selective purist.

 

Oh wait! You are ok with new devices as long as you own them. Now I see the problem it is you and you alone.

 

(I have stated this many times I am not a hardware guy and never have been one. I write software to support or expand Hardware why I got so much for free from vendors.)


Edited by RXB, Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:17 PM.


#52 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:29 PM

So again anything I write can work on a normal TI if you have a GRAM device or GENEVE, something else you are not interested in so poo poo that too along with the SAMS.

 

Why not stick to the freaking console and no cart at all if you are such a purist. Or should I say a selective purist.

 

Oh wait! You are ok with new devices as long as you own them. Now I see the problem it is you and you alone.

 

You just don't get it do you?  It's not about being a purist, it's about freaking  AVAILABILITY!

Where do I get a Geneve?  Where do I get a GRAM device?  If I was a purist, I would not have purchased an F18A or a Nano-PEB or a SuperCart.  

 

It's not an attack on your stuff, it's just that you keep offering solutions to things that MOST people will NEVER be able to use.  So how can we get excited about something when we have no skin in the game? 



#53 marc.hull OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:22 PM

 

 
You just don't get it do you?  It's not about being a purist, it's about freaking  AVAILABILITY!
Where do I get a Geneve?  Where do I get a GRAM device?  If I was a purist, I would not have purchased an F18A or a Nano-PEB or a SuperCart.  
 
It's not an attack on your stuff, it's just that you keep offering solutions to things that MOST people will NEVER be able to use.  So how can we get excited about something when we have no skin in the game? 

 

How about you stop asking for stuff and then bitching that it cost something. In case you missed the life course.... stuff costs money. Everything that you have quoted comes available from time to time and you have pointed most of it out and then carped about the cost..

Who are you to say what most people have ? Sounds like you don't have crap and you want everyone to have the same.

How about you stop being a DB.

#54 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:36 PM

We have software for these devices right now on my real TI SCSI hard drive sitting in storage as the Hardware has no support or anyone making new ones.

I own a SAMS and PGRAMS and SCSI card. Also a ton of other hardware that is not being discussed.

We have a 30+ computer here and AVAILABILITY is my issue!

 

We need HARDWARE that we have software for already,  not more devices that have zero software at all or has to be created from scratch.

 

Classic computers use old hardware not new hardware. That is the opposite of CLASSIC COMPUTERS is it not?

 

Skin in the game would be to make new hardware from old standards that we already have software for use sitting on hard drives or in archives not being used.

That is the definition of what a Classic Computer group should be doing?

 

Making brand new hardware with no software for a Classic Computer just opens up a whole new can of worms that do not deal with what is missing.

 

This is a great computer and to ignore the best devices ever built for it so we can hamstring the future and limit the functions is not a good Classic computer long term goal.

 

The reason Emulators are doing so well is they support these old hardware devices. While no new hardware is being made it is driving a wedge between us. Me vs you is an example.

 

I would buy a new version of the SAMS with more RAM or a new version of things that have software for them already.

I have no interest in more new standards. We have enough already after 30+ years do we really need more things to fight about?



#55 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:46 PM

   

How about you stop asking for stuff and then bitching that it cost something. In case you missed the life course.... stuff costs money. Everything that you have quoted comes available from time to time and you have pointed most of it out and then carped about the cost..

Who are you to say what most people have ? Sounds like you don't have crap and you want everyone to have the same.

How about you stop being a DB.

 

Yes, compared to most of you here, I don't have much, to say I want that for everyone else is just sad.

Now if I'm called a DB just because I have a DIFFERENCE OF OPINION, well it's time to bow out...



#56 marc.hull OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:53 PM

 

 
Yes, compared to most of you here, I don't have much, to say I want that for everyone else is just sad.
Now if I'm called a DB just because I have a DIFFERENCE OF OPINION, well it's time to bow out...

 
your called a DB cause that's how you act the rest can stand as it is. come back when you learn how not to be a gobshite.....

#57 marc.hull OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:00 PM

 

 
Yes, compared to most of you here, I don't have much, to say I want that for everyone else is just sad.
Now if I'm called a DB just because I have a DIFFERENCE OF OPINION, well it's time to bow out...

 

#58 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:21 AM

 

I should be able to give a couple a go this weekend for you.

 

 Whenever it's convenient for you, don't go to any special trouble to rush on my account.  I did get my new Cassette cable today, so I *THINK* I'm ready... assuming I don't need a mono to stereo converter or anything like that.  :)



#59 Ksarul ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:07 AM

One note on the SAMS: Mike Dudeck of Tex*in Treasures did a new run of them a few years ago, and I believe he still has them available.  Just send a question to MDUDE on eBay to ask him to put one of them up for auction.  I believe he sells them in both kit and complete form. For that matter, the necessary files to get your own made are up on the SWPB group's files section, IIRC.  Dan Eicher and I did a short run of 8 of them before Mike made his.  It is possible to get them, all of the parts are readily available, and it is a relatively straightforward build. 

 

In truth, there are only a small number of truly valuable TI expansion peripherals (note I exclude a lot of routine, useful items from this list just because they are necessary to a standard expanded system, and not because I don't find them to be useful).  The really short list would be GRAM devices (all types), the SAMS, 80-Column cards (only the 9938/9958 devices, as I have to exclude the Foundation 80 Column card (does anyone other than me even have one of these anymore?) due to rarity and the fact that it is monochrome), and the F18A.  Hard disks and RAM disks are great too--but they are primarily for storage, and don't allow programmers to push the bleeding edge of the possible with our machines (but they do help to keep all of the data a programmer needs connected to the machine while they work).  Note I also exclude the NANO PEB/CF7 devices from my short list--and I own several of them too.  They are a great user device, but they don't wxpand the realm of the possible for the programmer.  The same goes for adding a Lotharek CF drive--they are nice to use, but don't push the programming envelope.

 

The SAMS finally has enough utility support to make it very useful, so much so that it is now usable with the newest version of RXB (thanks, Rich) by anyone who wants to write truly humongous BASIC programs.  This will actually let me port a program back to the TI from my Geneve once I have the free cycles (it lets me generate 1st Edition AD&D characters quickly and without error).

 

Cartridges are great too--and that's why I worked on the various extensions of the format with Jon and Tursi.  Like the SAMS, cartridges having 512K (plus about 128K of GROM) to fill gives the programmers our community is blessed with a lot of possibility. 

 

Bottom line, please don't knock it because you don't see a use for it yourself--I like ALL of the TI hardware I own (and I own more obscure items than most folks have EVER heard of).  Everything built gives new capabilities and spurs programmers to do more with our systems--it is just that some of those hardware items are more equal than others when it comes to adding capabilities.  The one thing that most folks forget is that new capabilities hardware-wise cost money, sometimes a lot of it.  A good, 9938-based video card will cost upwards of $180 to build--and that is just the PARTS.  Could it be built into an FPGA-type board? Maybe yes--maybe no.  It depends on the device used and how much additional logic is required to put the necessary memory on the board (similar to what the TIM did, with an FPGA replacing the 9938).  Postle assembled half a dozen of the IDE cards--and tried to sell them at his cost ($250) and met with much resistance because those who wanted them decided that the cards cost too much to buy.  When the hardware IS available, our community balks at the price if it is more than about $75.  Not many things can be built for less than that, so many good ideas wither on the vine.  Marc Hull went to a lot of trouble to develop his SID Master card (I helped with the layout), but finds few buyers even when selling the cards at a LOSS.  It is a wonderful thing that brings over 8,000 pieces of music from the Commodore 64 over to the TI and makes it possible to add some really interesting music to TI software too--but only a dozen or so have been sold (I doubt it is over 20 so far), and that is unfortunate.  It is a nice, useful device, easily worth $75-$100, but which struggles to sell for $45-$55.

 

I'm working on a through-hole layout for the IDE board too--and I don't expect that more than 20 people will buy one, even as a bare board sold at cost.  Will I still do it?  Yes--because I am committed to furthering the TI community.  There are others who have that kind of committment too.  Rich can be a bit brusque and monomaniacal when it comes to showcasing RXB--but he's DOING something to further the community.  I respect that.  I really want to burn a copy of the newest RXB into one of my 512K boards, just to see that expansion of BASIC where it truly belongs--in a real cartridge.  Tursi, Marc, Jon, Rasmus, Willsy, Ox, Walid, Postle, Kevan, Fred Kaal, Michael Zapf, Dan Eicher, Bob Carmany, Jaime Malilong, Ernie Pergrem, Hal Shanafield, Tim Tesch, Bill Gaskill, Tom Wills and many others are doing the same, all in different ways.  That is community, and I love being part of that community.  We end up destroying more ideas with infighting and pooh-poohing than I care to count--when the real goal is to encourage and refine the idea to make it even better than the originator thought it could be.  Look at the interaction that went into the development of Scramble--that was a beautiful collaboration between programmer and user community.  We need more of that.  Lots more! :)  :)  :)  :)


Edited by Ksarul, Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:08 AM.


#60 RobertLM78 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:20 AM

One note on the SAMS: Mike Dudeck of Tex*in Treasures did a new run of them a few years ago, and I believe he still has them available.  Just send a question to MDUDE on eBay to ask him to put one of them up for auction.  I believe he sells them in both kit and complete form. For that matter, the necessary files to get your own made are up on the SWPB group's files section, IIRC.  Dan Eicher and I did a short run of 8 of them before Mike made his.  It is possible to get them, all of the parts are readily available, and it is a relatively straightforward build....

It's good to see these are still available now and again.  I was tempted volunteer to make some, of course, I don't have the specs or, more importantly, the capital to do so at this time.  I imgine that the specs aren't hard to find though :).

 

Now, enough bickering lads- we've got more important things to do! 8)



#61 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:41 PM

It's good to see these are still available now and again.  I was tempted volunteer to make some, of course, I don't have the specs or, more importantly, the capital to do so at this time.  I imgine that the specs aren't hard to find though :).

 

Now, enough bickering lads- we've got more important things to do! 8)

Thanks that is why my last line of my post to Kevan was:

 

I have no interest in more new standards. We have enough already after 30+ years do we really need more things to fight about?



#62 RobertLM78 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:56 PM

... I have no interest in more new standards. We have enough already after 30+ years...

Agreed whole-heartedly :).  I can see Kevan's point, to a degree: it is hard to get excited about something you don't have in the mean-time, but, that's no reason to write it off - in fact, it's reason to get the community excited enough about it for a run to be made 8).  AFAIK, the SAMS card was one fo the best pieces of hardware ever made for the TI.



#63 Vorticon OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:12 AM

I'm working on a through-hole layout for the IDE board too--and I don't expect that more than 20 people will buy one, even as a bare board sold at cost.  Will I still do it?  Yes--because I am committed to furthering the TI community.  There are others who have that kind of committment too.  Rich can be a bit brusque and monomaniacal when it comes to showcasing RXB--but he's DOING something to further the community.  I respect that.  I really want to burn a copy of the newest RXB into one of my 512K boards, just to see that expansion of BASIC where it truly belongs--in a real cartridge.


What will be the difference between your IDE project and the current Nouspikel IDE card? My IDE card is a little flaky, so this piked my interest :) As for RXB, if you do get it on a cartridge, would you consider making a small run for the community? I for one would kill to have an RXB cart. I keep drooling over its capabilities.

#64 Ksarul ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:26 AM

The IDE card would be functionally identical to the Nouspikel card--but it would use through-hole components.  No SMT, which would make repairs/troubleshooting a lot easier.  I also plan to put dual connectors on the back so that folks have the option of connecting a small CF/IDE board directly to the tab sticking out or running a cable to either an IDE drive or a CF/IDE box.  Note that the tab would be able to power a CF combination directly (yes, there will be a 4-pin connector there, but it won't carry 12V and the 5V is strictly for low-power applications, so no direct connection to IDE hard drives).

 

And I would make more than one of the RXB carts--assuming Rich gave me permission to do so.  I'd even put them in new-manufactured cartridge cases using my case molds.



#65 Vorticon OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:15 AM

Nice! If this eventually works out, then please put me down for one of each :)

#66 RobertLM78 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:44 AM

Can't promise on an exact date, but I'd buy an RXB cart 8)



#67 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:43 PM

Remember the Olde Days when all our TI-NEWS came from these: http://atariage.com/...-theoldedays-1/

Oh how times have changed!



#68 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:42 PM

Agreed whole-heartedly :).  I can see Kevan's point, to a degree: it is hard to get excited about something you don't have in the mean-time, but, that's no reason to write it off - in fact, it's reason to get the community excited enough about it for a run to be made 8).  AFAIK, the SAMS card was one fo the best pieces of hardware ever made for the TI.

 

I am not writing off and new device. I should explain that a whole new way to access the device just makes for more problems long term then it is worth.

 

If any device has exactly the same access that 10 other previous devices use then it has compatibility, and that is a good thing. Compatibility is more important than wow factor.

 

Using a program on many different devices is more desirable then having 4 at the most to access just one device, more is better not worse. i.e. Function > Design > wow

 

Logic dictates that. How can less compatibility and less access be a good thing? Compatibility is always my number one consideration with devices, ALWAYS!

 

If you have to have a special program for a special device, then that device is not compatible and has very limited in function. One of a kind is just that, one of a kind.



#69 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:44 PM

The IDE card would be functionally identical to the Nouspikel card--but it would use through-hole components.  No SMT, which would make repairs/troubleshooting a lot easier.  I also plan to put dual connectors on the back so that folks have the option of connecting a small CF/IDE board directly to the tab sticking out or running a cable to either an IDE drive or a CF/IDE box.  Note that the tab would be able to power a CF combination directly (yes, there will be a 4-pin connector there, but it won't carry 12V and the 5V is strictly for low-power applications, so no direct connection to IDE hard drives).

 

And I would make more than one of the RXB carts--assuming Rich gave me permission to do so.  I'd even put them in new-manufactured cartridge cases using my case molds.

 

RXB is FREEWARE. Any one can make a cart or copy or modify it. My only request is they inform me as to the changes made so I can confirm no issues result in compatibility down the line.



#70 slinkeey OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:00 AM

 

Compatibility is more important than wow factor.

 

That depends on why your hobby involves the TI-99/4a.



#71 slinkeey OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:03 AM

 

RXB is FREEWARE. Any one can make a cart or copy or modify it. My only request is they inform me as to the changes made so I can confirm no issues result in compatibility down the line.

 

I was going to say, "I bet Rich would be jumping all over this.”  I seem to remember him thinking that it would be really cool if someone attempted to get it onto a cart once again."



#72 TI-Sissy OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:51 AM

 

That depends on why your hobby involves the TI-99/4a.

all i do is play games on it. if the game runs it's compatible right?



#73 slinkeey OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:36 AM

TI-Sissy,

 

You're fine..  :)   This is just a debate on what hardware and etc is worth creating for the TI.



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Posted Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:18 PM

 

I should be able to give a couple a go this weekend for you.  All the ones I have now are my own personal programs.

 

 Apparently I'm not ready yet.  I download the bluebox.mp3 as a test, and got no sound at all.   I'll order an adapter online and see if that fixes the problem. 



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Posted Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:41 PM

Agreed whole-heartedly :).  I can see Kevan's point, to a degree: it is hard to get excited about something you don't have in the mean-time, but, that's no reason to write it off - in fact, it's reason to get the community excited enough about it for a run to be made 8).  AFAIK, the SAMS card was one fo the best pieces of hardware ever made for the TI.

 

Okay, I'm going to jump off a cliff here and commit... *IF* a side-car (with case) replacement for the Nano-PEB is ever developed, it would be good to have a version of the SAMS card built-in.  I will even buy one.  The Ti-Community looks to be in a Renaissance of sorts, the time might be right for a all-in-one unit that does almost everything and a little extra.  More and more F18A's are being sold, are there enough P-Boxes and cards to go around at an affordable price?

 

Minimum requirements for a side-car unit should be:

 

1) 32K (of course)  Unless it's possible to switch in more (64K?), and still remain compatible with existing software.

     (Apparently the above is NOT needed if the SAMS is built in, so the projected unit cost is already going down!)

2) SAMS compatibility, memory is cheap now days anyway.... "If you build it they (programmers) will come."

3) Virtual DSK1 - DSK4 (more if possible if #6 not implemented), volume mounting and un-mounting SUCKS!

4) Real Time Clock (Multiple reasons for this, especially if #6 is implemented).

5) Working RS-232 or possibly a USB port for HDX capability if #6 not implemented.

6) Myarc compatible routines to emulate the HFDC using a USB stick as a Solid State Hard Drive.

7) Slot on card to plug in speech synthesizer.

 

Would all of this be possible around $200.00? 

 

Sounds like this would also make a GREAT Turbo Forth configuration, especially if one is already using an F18A.


Edited by Kevan, Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:17 AM.






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