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Atari 400/800 OS B PAL - The real McCoy

Atari 400/800 OS B PAL

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#51 luckybuck OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 4, 2014 1:57 PM

Wow JAC! That is an 11 out of 10! Shaft (Samual L. Jackson) only got 10 in his movie!

 

I am totally impressed. But that is exactly in the direction I want to see the Atari community comming. A Super OS, which works for all.

A super Basic (fusion of Atari Basic, Turbo Basic XL, Basic XL and CE) on open source base to be developed further by the users.

A super ACTION! based on the source code, I failed to receive by now. Maybe Alfred has a heart for us on Christmas for that?

That would be so cool. :-))))

 

Thank you all so much, I am so lucky and speechless by now.

 

Endless wow!!!!!!!!!!!!



#52 JAC! OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 4, 2014 2:05 PM

Well, patching OS-B is "not exactly" what I'd call a "Super-OS" but on the other hand it's all about marketing ;-)


Edited by JAC!, Wed Jun 4, 2014 2:05 PM.


#53 luckybuck OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 4, 2014 5:08 PM

I do not mean patching!

 

Assembling from the source code...

 

Complete documented, with comments, from all, for all.



#54 luckybuck OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 5, 2014 5:05 AM

Rev. TV    Date        CRC-32      Part Nr(s)

~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A    NTSC  1979        0xc1b3bb02  CO12499A, CO14599A, CO12399B

A    PAL   1979        0x72b3fed4  CO15199, CO15299, CO12399B

B    NTSC  1981        0x0e86d61d  CO12499B, CO14599B, 12399B

B    PAL   2014        0c913dfc    Kr0tki-Version

B    PAL   (*)         (*)         (*)

B    NTSC  1981        3e28a1fe    hacked version for PC Xformer

~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Atari XL               1f9cd270

Atari Basic Rev. C     7d684184

Atari 5200             4248d3e3

Atari 7800             649913e5

 

(*) a real PAL.B rom hasn't been found.

If you do have this or have more information, please let us know!



#55 JAC! OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:57 PM

Added all the information present in Freddy Offenga's ROMInfo tool (dates, part infos, for OSes and BASICs) etc. to my tool plus a filter to only scan for ".bin" and ".rom" in folders. This version also runs on Java 1.6 now. If you can provide any (more) specific date or part number, I'll add it.

 

 

ROMChecker.png


Edited by JAC!, Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:58 PM.


#56 luckybuck OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:27 PM

Wow! Again! JAC!

 

That is incredible! :-)))

 

With that, we maybe able to build a SALT far beyond Atari has ever seen! :-)))

 

Just a suggestion: Not all people are close to Java 1.6, is there a chance to make a csv-file version or even an Excel version? We can put it then on the Wiki or to Freddy's site?

 

Just an idea... ;-)

 

Great thanks again, JAC! Go ahead with your outstanding work. We really need you. An Atari community without your knowledge is nearly unthinkable. :-)))



#57 JAC! OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:36 PM

The props for the content completely go to Freddy, Tomasz et. at. The tool jus adds convenience. Putting it all up in Wiki makes perfect sense for me, but I see that rather as the input for the tool than it's output.

 

(besides that everybody should be close to Java 1.6 by now, the current version is 1.8 and 1.6 is out of maintenance since over 1 year :-)


Edited by JAC!, Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:37 PM.


#58 luckybuck OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:39 PM

Yes, you right... :-)

 

There are even those, who use 8-bit in our nowadays time... ;-)

 

Perfect. Thanks again.



#59 Kr0tki OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:30 AM

Cool, glad to see the XL OSes supported.

As for the missing things - check out sysrom.h to determine what you're missing (and sysrom.c for CRC32 checksums). There were 2 versions of the Arabic XE ROM and 2 versions of the 5200 BIOS. And there are also a few known prototype revisions of the XL OS.

Also, you definitely should add support for XL OS checksum checking.

#60 JAC! OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:06 PM

Anywhere I can get these additional ROMs from? If there's one thing I learnt during writing this tool and typing in all the details, it's "You have to have a correct sample file".

>Also, you definitely should add support for XL OS checksum checking. 

Now that I also found setchecksum-xl.c it should be doable :-)



#61 Kr0tki OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:27 PM

For the Arabic XE and 5200 ROMs, look at the AtariOnline.pl archive. The prototype XL ROMs are there, and the link for the rev. 5 ROM is in sysrom.h.

#62 luckybuck OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:58 PM

Hi Kr0tki!

 

Have already send JAC! the roms. The ones are missing are the Hebrew roms. Then we are complete in the major roms. Showing by the way,  that Hebrew and Arabic roms are co-existing in Ataris for more than 30 years without any(!) problems. Same is true on the ISS and at CERN and....



#63 CharlieChaplin OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:34 PM

Hmm,

 

if someone should have hebrew ROMs of the A8`s, then this one would most likely be Nir Dary. Some months ago I uploaded my Nir Dary CD`s to Pigwa and since my CD`s had already been defective, some nice souls added the stuff which I did not have anymore.

 

Think you can find the hebrew ROMs there: http://ftp.pigwa.net...ROMHEBR - JIRI/ or there: http://ftp.pigwa.net...ROMS/OS/Hebrew/

Some XL-ROMs can be found there: http://ftp.pigwa.net...ROMS_OS/XLROMS/


Edited by CharlieChaplin, Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:37 PM.


#64 luckybuck OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:38 PM

That is excatly(!) what GoodByte was looking for! :-)))

 

Thank you CharlieChaplin, even in the name of ABBUC! :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:

 

:)  :)  :)  ;)



#65 Kr0tki OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:27 AM

Hebrew ROMs, aren't they unofficial?

At this point you might throw the Omnimons, Qmegs and Fast Math packs in as well.

#66 JAC! OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:37 PM

I checked out sysrom.* and am reworking my code to stick to your naming convention. When I went to use your ROM ID as key I found two minor things that would be nice to see them fixed.

a) C061598B: second character is a zero, should be an captial O, I think.

{ os5200a_filename, 0x0800, 0x4248d3e3, TRUE }, /* SYSROM_5200 */
{ os5200b_filename, 0x0800, 0xc2ba2613, TRUE }, /* SYSROM_5200A */

b) os5200a/os5200b naming is not consistent with 5200/5200A. For all other ROMs it is. os5200/os5200a would be, I think.
Are there any "Revision Numbers" for these two? Like "REV. A/B" or "REV. 1/2"? (and hopfully "5200A" is not "REV. B" :-)

#67 luckybuck OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:05 PM

Hi Kr0tki !

 

According to Abbuc the Hebrew-ROMs are not official.

 

Further, as far as I know, no one has seen a picture of a real Hebrew-Atari. Only RHOD has a picture taken from an Arabic-Atari.

 

Concerning the Fastmath-XL-ROM. This is an outstanding work from Charles Marslett?

 

If the lines 6, 8 and 9 below can be fixed, too, that would be marvelous. :-)))

 

Math-Bug with Fastrom.jpg

 

Anyway, compare line 10 with a normal Excel 2013:

 

SumExcel2011.jpg

 

So, just ask again, what else can your Atari do for you? ;-)

 



#68 ProWizard OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:08 PM

Well… I declare this topic as the most interesting topic of 2014 so far. It's very interesting. I think Freddy Offenga (Is he here somewhere?) would find this thread also incredible interesting, since he is one of the engines behind the Atari Preservation Project.



#69 luckybuck OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:15 PM

Hi ProWizard!

 

Me, too! Only a few things are missing, then digitizing is complete. With the help of all here, it should be possible. :-)

 

Age of source code on open source base should be begin. :-)

 

Important? So, you mean, that Atari has proven some 35 years ago, that a peaceful co-existence of Arabic and Hebrew is possible? That that Near East can take over this? That we will have worldwide peace then for ever? Sure, your are right. ;-)

 

And what about the oil? Well, that's another thing... ;-)



#70 luckybuck OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:18 PM

Did forgot, I am in direct contact with Freddy, he is fully aware of everything here. European skynet makes this possible... ;-)



#71 JAC! OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:29 PM

The Hebrew ATARIXL.ROM has simply a font replacment plus an irrelevant minor change to the self test start. Checksum are wrong.
The other Hebrew ROMs are patched versions with correct checksums created with PATCH20.MAE, which obviously evolved over time.
Heaven knows why somebody would create a patch like this... or a Java tool to find that out years later :-)

http://ftp.pigwa.net...IRI/PATCH20.MAE

; ************************************
; *MODIFICATION OF ATARI 800XL OS-ROM*
; * FORA FUNCTION SIMILAR TO THE *
; * 'HEBREW.SYS' UTILITY *
; ************************************

; DONE BY: JIRI BERNASEK (BEWESOFT)
; 14.01.2001

; THIS SOURCE CREATES NEWROM-IMAGE
; AT $4000-$7FFF

; NEEDS ROM800XL.DAT, HBRWSYS.FNT

#72 luckybuck OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:49 PM

What? $4000-$7FFF is Jiri for real???

 

Well, that is true, both the rom and(!) the font are needed..., but at $4000 ?

 

Well, if Jiri is from the Mossad, even minor changes could have great impacts... ;-) Iran knows why... ;-)

 

So, when will the Chinese version be available? Maybe we create a font generator who can deal with all languages?

 

I will take take the Klingon language in combination with S.A.M.

 

Wel, you all are right, S.A.M. comes better with the Cylon language. ;-)



#73 JAC! OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:08 PM

>What? $4000-$7FFF is Jiri for real???
If you patch a ROM you have to do it somewhere in RAM. This has nothing to do with the logical address it is used in later. Just pick 16k somewhere and then save to disk.

#74 luckybuck OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:17 PM

Thanks JAC! Did understood it the wrong way. Hope, that at least Page 6 is free...



#75 Kr0tki OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:39 PM

a) C061598B: second character is a zero, should be an captial O, I think.

Well, not really. When you look at some chips (ANTIC, POKEY) it's quite evident that the character after "C" is a zero. Atari apparently used the "C<number>" convention, not "CO<number>" for their chips. Seems logical, as when they drained the C0xxxxx pool they followed with C1xxxxx and so on.

Although the idea seems to have gotten lost in the later years, as there are documents by Atari from later years that use both the "C0" and the "CO" convention. I've actually made a lenghty writeup about this issue on Wikipedia at one point.
 

{ os5200a_filename, 0x0800, 0x4248d3e3, TRUE }, /* SYSROM_5200 */
{ os5200b_filename, 0x0800, 0xc2ba2613, TRUE }, /* SYSROM_5200A */

b) os5200a/os5200b naming is not consistent with 5200/5200A. For all other ROMs it is. os5200/os5200a would be, I think.


They show up as "Original" and "Rev. A" in GUI.
 

Are there any "Revision Numbers" for these two? Like "REV. A/B" or "REV. 1/2"? (and hopfully "5200A" is not "REV. B" :-)

The source code never got published, so we'll never know the official names. I chose to name the BIOSes "Original" and "Rev. A" because of the chip part numbers, which are C019156 and C019156A respectively.

Note that the 400/800 rev. A OS is not the first version either - after all it's a revision, ie. a modification of something earlier - in this case, the OS 255.
 

The Hebrew ATARIXL.ROM has simply a font replacment plus an irrelevant minor change to the self test start. Checksum are wrong.
The other Hebrew ROMs are patched versions with correct checksums created with PATCH20.MAE, which obviously evolved over time.
Heaven knows why somebody would create a patch like this... or a Java tool to find that out years later :-)


There were several verions then. Kevin Savetz' Arabic 65XE website contains an account of one Israeli guy, who had a Hebrew ROM with right-to-left text entry among other things.

Edited by Kr0tki, Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:43 PM.






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