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s-video mod 9 vertical lines on left side


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#1 grips03 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 3, 2013 9:39 AM

I have s-video mod and I get 9 vertical lines on the left side of screen, right side is ok. The vertical lines are equally spaced. System is Atari 5200 4-port with power mod.  I should also note my 2-port Atari 5200 also has the same issue, they both have the same type of s-video board.  Best way to see the vertical lines is with Moon Patrol all blue screen, or if you wait long enough it will show a red screen and its even easier to see there.

 

What I have tried so far to fix:

 

1-shielded video cable between mod board and connectors = no change

2-different s-video cables (3) = no change

3-Removed 2 inches of wire from mod board to video IC, i.e. mod board now sits directly on the video IC pins = no change

4-Used another 5200 power adapter = no change

5-HP bench power supply = no change

6-HP bench power off UPS = no change

7-Adjust R8 - you can make the 9 vertical lines appear less if you adjust, but they are still there, i.e. you might make them mostly disappear on blue screen, but they will show up on red screen

8-Lines are still present with composite cable

9-Removed RF module = no change

 

Any other ideas to try?

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Edited by grips03, Sun Nov 3, 2013 10:20 AM.


#2 grips03 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 3, 2013 2:03 PM

vertical lines do not appear on 25" and 36" Sony CRT TVs. Vertical lines show up on Sony 52" LCD "W" model

 

I switched to Atari 7800 and I still see the lines. Looks like 5200 might not be to blame. Going to upscale s-video to hdmi and see if issue remains.



#3 5-11under OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 3, 2013 2:16 PM

You could try a capacitor (in the pF or maybe low nF range?) from the signal to ground, to see if that helps. Too big of a capacitor and the display won't be as sharp.

#4 Mitch OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 3, 2013 4:00 PM

Sound like the problem is your LCD TV. Sadly not an uncommon problem.

 

Mitch



#5 grips03 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 3, 2013 6:18 PM

I put the Sega Saturn on the same LCD via s-video and no issue.



#6 grips03 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 3, 2013 6:53 PM

You could try a capacitor (in the pF or maybe low nF range?) from the signal to ground, to see if that helps. Too big of a capacitor and the display won't be as sharp.

 

I tried 4.7pf and it was the same. I then switched to 1nf and it had vertical banding (I think that is the name for it).



#7 ApolloBoy OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 3, 2013 7:29 PM

I put the Sega Saturn on the same LCD via s-video and no issue.

It's not uncommon for modern TVs to have issues with some systems but not others.

#8 grips03 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 3, 2013 8:15 PM

Vertical lines are in the 'Y' luma wire.

 

I removed Chroma 'C' wire and picture turns black and white, but 9 vertical lines are still there



#9 grips03 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 8, 2013 6:38 PM

I tested with Micomsoft XRGB mini Framemeister tonight and the 9 vertical lines are still present. I think this is just how the s-video mod works. Its still better than RF.

 

XRGB mini settings:

IMAGE_MODE = Standard   - has low pass filter, helps clear up vertical lines, they are still there but reduced

SCREEN_SET = Standard

HDMI_OUTPUT= 480_60p


Edited by grips03, Fri Nov 8, 2013 6:48 PM.


#10 Lynxpro OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:14 AM

What SVideo mod do you have?

And does anyone have a link to anyone offering their services for the 4-port power mod? Thanks.

#11 grips03 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:15 PM

What SVideo mod do you have?

And does anyone have a link to anyone offering their services for the 4-port power mod? Thanks.

 

power mod is pretty easy, contact Joe for the s-video mod



#12 grips03 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:43 PM

I test an Atari 800XL with composite video (100% stock) no mod and it does the same thing, 9 lines on left hand side. I think this is just how the Atari is designed, i.e. designed for forgiving CRT based TVs and not modern LCD sets



#13 FABombjoy OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:35 AM

If you have some spare 1uf or 10uf caps, place a couple in parallel with the existing ceramic bypass caps connected to the system RAM. Just add a couple and see if they begin to diminish the effect.

#14 grips03 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:36 PM

If you have some spare 1uf or 10uf caps, place a couple in parallel with the existing ceramic bypass caps connected to the system RAM. Just add a couple and see if they begin to diminish the effect.

 

Is the system ram the 8 chips is a row on the left?  I see some small bypass caps (blue in color, 104s I think), you mean those?



#15 FABombjoy OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:17 AM

These would be the little .1uf caps on the right side of the RAMs.  C26, C139, etc.  I've done the S-Video mod before and added electrolytics in parallel with these to diminish the lines.

 

With it running, you should be able to just touch an electrolytic cap to the existing ceramic and see an immediate change.

 

Also check that your ANTIC, S-video circuit, and S-video connector grounds are at the same potential.  I try to ground & power my circuit directly from ANTIC to keep any ground loop issues at bay.



#16 FABombjoy OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:18 AM

The ceramics could be on the left too, I'm referencing a 4-port board myself.  Not sure if they are in the same position on the 2-port boards or not.  If in doubt, check the schematics :)



#17 grips03 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:10 PM

The ceramics could be on the left too, I'm referencing a 4-port board myself.  Not sure if they are in the same position on the 2-port boards or not.  If in doubt, check the schematics :)

i have 4 port as well.

 

I added qty 8 10uf cap in parallel, on c26, c139, c25, c27, c121, c28, c138, c29. This did not change much. I then switched to .1uf and got similar results.

 

now if I paused the 5200 the 9 vertical lines when mostly away

 

Perhaps I need to remove the caps on the motherboard vs. adding in parallel?

 

I'm powering the s-video board from gnd (pin 1) and +5 (pin 21) on the ANTIC



#18 ClausB OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:46 PM

Try powering the video board from the same supply as the original 4050 chip, which is +5F on the schematic, across L14 and C51.



#19 grips03 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:59 PM

I connected power and GND for the s-video board to 4050 chip (just to the north of the GTIA).

 

Same 9 lines :(



#20 ClausB OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:18 AM

Wow, stubborn! Maybe directly across C42 or C51?


Edited by ClausB, Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:19 AM.


#21 grips03 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:04 AM

Wow, stubborn! Maybe directly across C42 or C51?

 

 

ok I'll try that today.

 

Do you know why the 9 lines go away when I pause the game?



#22 FABombjoy OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:42 AM

I hate to recommend a shotgun approach, but all the chips could probably use bigger bypass caps. Haven't tried this myself but it has cured similar problems with other consoles.

I don't know how pause is implemented programmaticly, but if it puts ANTIC in a lower power mode, that could be why the refresh lines disappear. E.g. the chip consumes less power and the +5v becomes more stable.

#23 ClausB OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:36 PM

Well, no, ANTIC is still working away doing screen DMA and DRAM refresh. I don't know why the lines go away.



#24 FABombjoy OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:02 PM

Maybe the CPU draws less power when paused, you know, that's just the theory I'm working on. That the lines become visible during higher power consumption because there is a lack of reserve capacity current-wise off of the regulators. I will try to get some measurements over t'giving break. What game do you observe the pause phenomena with?

#25 grips03 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:05 PM

Maybe the CPU draws less power when paused, you know, that's just the theory I'm working on. That the lines become visible during higher power consumption because there is a lack of reserve capacity current-wise off of the regulators. I will try to get some measurements over t'giving break. What game do you observe the pause phenomena with?

 

Moon Patrol is the game I'm testing with

 

What size caps should I use to replace the 104s?






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