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Intellivisionaries ep3 is up!


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#26 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:17 PM

Maybe the hacking/modding community comes from an end-user standpoint.  End users don't have to worry about copyright or infringement until someone puts a license key or DRM into the product.  The very act of altering someone elses work requires a broader interpretation of intellectual property.

 

Most Atari/Coleco/INTV efforts are original works by developers.  Protecting your rights and respecting those of others is key.



#27 Rick Reynolds OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:24 PM

 

Again, sorry for derailing the thread Rick!

 

You should make this a topic on your podcast!

 

 

No worries!

 

And I do think this would make for an interesting segment.  It's definitely something that gets the attention of the community.  I can't claim to be much of an expert in this area, of course.  But you do have me thinking of how to have a reasonable segment about it.



#28 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:28 PM

Thankfully the IP drama on INTV has been mostly companies dismissing permission.. right?   Not sure if that'd make a whole segment.



#29 intvsteve OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:02 PM

This is an interesting topic. I think most of the concern expressed here is genuine FUD regarding copyright law, IP ownership, blah blardy blar. DZ had an interesting summary of some of this kind of material in another thread. Maybe it really is old hat, but new to the Intellivision scene, what with the recent renaissance of the system with so many new games and projects bubbling the last several years.

 

I think aspects that make the INTV history and community more sensitive/curious/cautious regarding this topic are:

  • Intellivision has had a continuous ownership chain from 'back in the day' to today that involves original developers / management passionately involved with the system, unlike others that have been abandoned, bought / sold numerous times purely for profit motive by uncaring parties, et. al.
  • The EXEC and GROM binaries are still owned by IntellivisionLives, I think, which is an active business concern.
  • All of us who've read the BSR site and elsewhere are perhaps more sensitive to this topic given how Mattel always seemed to walk on eggshells, constantly fearing lawsuits to the point of it influencing the pack-in game, killing projects, hiding games, etc. Perhaps this has been blown out of proportion, but the history we read is replete with abject fear of the dire threats / expense of lawsuits. It rubs off, even though it may be irrational.
  • Many of the beloved properties from the original days are still owned by large, active concerns (e.g. Disney -> owns most of the entertainment our demo seems to love : TRON, Star Wars, Marvel...); D&D is also still actively developed, though not as up-to-date on how that whole scene is rolling now.
  • IMO the 'quality density' of the INTV library is high, by which I mean as a percentage, the number of absolute stinkers in the library is small. So, call the community snobbish, but I think the bar is set high regarding expectations for new releases. One of the distinguishing characteristics at the system's launch was that so many titles had these official licenses (NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, USCF, ABPA, NASL, PGA...). So being "official" brings extra cachet and it's almost an unconscious expectation.

OK, enough blathering. Like I said, I think this is an interesting topic, and it would be good to have parties truly in the know "clear the air" and help us get a better sense of what should be legitimate concerns and what's rubbish.


Edited by intvsteve, Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:04 PM.


#30 nurmix OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:08 PM

We will discuss this in a future episode, for sure.  Excellent points made, Steve.  For the record, yes Intellivision Productions do own the rights to the EXEC, GROM, and the name Intellivision itself.

Here's my 2 cents.  Something like the TRON compilation could only be done this way (homebrew).  I have spoken to Keith Robinson numerous times, and I know that he is a huge TRON fan (hell, as we know, he programmed Solar Sailor).  And I also know he would love to put something like this out through Intellivision Productions.  But the reality is, he can't... well, not without losing his shirt, or being sued into oblivion.

When I was putting together the idea to do The Intellivisionaries Podcast, I had a lunch meeting with Keith.  I told him what I wanted to do, and asked him if he was OK with the show name, using an image of the Master Component, and taking game sounds and music from the console, and his "Intellivision In HiFi" CD.  He gave me verbal permission to do so.  You will also notice that during the outro music of each episode, it is stated that "Intellivision is a trademark of Intellivision Productions".  Do I have to do this?  No.  But I do it as a courtesy, and in recognition of his ownership of the brand.

From Keith's perspective, he is legally hamstrung when it comes to putting out new products that have (or HAD) a license attached to them.  As an example, I spoke to him at Classic Gaming Expo a few years back about Joe Z's Space Patrol.  He said he would love to get behind a homebrew game, but the fact that Space Patrol was a variation on Moon Patrol would likely put him at risk for a lawsuit.

And you may not think so, but even using the commercials can be a problem for Intellivision Productions.  They own the rights to them, and are doing their best to get high quality versions of them to use on their website, etc.  But the commercials that feature Henry Thomas of "ET" fame have not been released to them, as the management for Mr. Thomas wants a license deal in order to use them.

Getting back to TRON... renewing the long expired TRON license with Disney would be prohibitively expensive for Intellivision Productions, if Disney would even agree to their IP being used for something so "retro" (doubtful).  And if Keith decided to proceed WITHOUT a license, bye bye Intellivision Productions.

This is true for all the other licensed Intellivision games, should Intellivision Productions, or a company that is not "homebrew" in the typical sense of the word, like Elektronite, decide to release a licensed game.  In the case of Elektronite, they have license deals with First Star Software, Apogee and Cinemaware for Boulder Dash, The Lost Caves of Kroz, and Defender Of The Crown, respectively.  They are a legal business, and as such, obtained the licenses to remake these games legally, without fear of a lawsuit.  This, of course, adds to the cost of a game... a cost that a typical homebrew developer does not have to deal with.  Technically and legally, they SHOULD have to deal with this, but the reality is that the chances of being sued by the license holder when you're a one man operation dealing in very small quantities is highly unlikely.  If you're a large / legal business, regardless of how small you may be, you will be sued (assuming the copyright holder is still an active business, and/or cares to go after the copyright violator).

So a small homebrew developer gets away with things that a larger company can't.  I know from discussions with him that Keith is disheartened by many of the homebrew games being released because he would like to get involved and help promote them, but the legal environment prevents that, when it's a game that uses a long expired license, or a license that couldn't easily (and affordably) be renewed.  This is why INTV dropped all the licenses and started calling everything "Super Pro" with the sports games, for example.

And in Intellivision Productions case, when it comes to homebrew developers releasing games they don't own the rights to, legally, Intellivision Productions could sue those developers.  But legal costs, and being perceived as the "big bad corporation going after the one man operation" makes the likelihood of that happening pretty much nonexistent.

In summation, from an Intellivision fan's perspective (MY perspective), I LOVE the homebrew support and scene.  I really appreciate all that is being done, and support the scene as often as I can.  I want to promote it on the show, but at the same time, being sympathetic to Intellivision Productions / Keith's position, I feel we HAVE TO mention the legal issue when it comes to the games.  It's not a jab at the small developers at all.  It's just something that I feel needs to be talked about, and I hope that the listeners of our show can see it that way.

 

 



#31 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:14 PM

Another IP related mystery is:  where did the Aquarius assets go?  I've been trying to contact Intellivision Productions for years without a single response.  Radofin is fin.  Are far as I know no one has tried to renew the trademarks either.



#32 nurmix OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:02 PM

Another IP related mystery is: where did the Aquarius assets go? I've been trying to contact Intellivision Productions for years without a single response. Radofin is fin. Are far as I know no one has tried to renew the trademarks either.


Not sure, but the next time I talk to Keith I will ask him.

#33 wolfy62 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:31 PM

wow Nurmix! 

 

 Thanks to you for all the great history and information, I just learned a lot there!



#34 DZ-Jay OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:18 AM

OK, seriously now... Nurmix, post the darn MP3 for the intro song!

 

I'm listening to the Ep.3 of your podcast and I find myself--once again--listening over and over to that part.  I haven't even gotten around to the content yet!  It reminds me of my favourite type of music, the ones I used to DJ back in high-school, space-synth and Italo Disco tunes from the 1980s--very reminiscent of Laser Dance and Koto.

 

I GOTTA HAVE IT!  (please...?)  :)

 

     -dZ.



#35 Rick Reynolds OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:52 AM

An AA admin finally saw my request to change the posting title here - it now represents the right episode number.  Thanks Sauron!

 

I can't seem to edit my original posting anymore, maybe there is a timeout on that kind of thing.



#36 nurmix OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:20 AM

OK, seriously now... Nurmix, post the darn MP3 for the intro song!

I'm listening to the Ep.3 of your podcast and I find myself--once again--listening over and over to that part. I haven't even gotten around to the content yet! It reminds me of my favourite type of music, the ones I used to DJ back in high-school, space-synth and Italo Disco tunes from the 1980s--very reminiscent of Laser Dance and Koto.

I GOTTA HAVE IT! (please...?) :)

-dZ.


Haha, thank dZ. You know I used to DJ in the mid to late '80s as well (that's where 'Nurmix' came from - when I made my own mix/remix of a song).

I am working on the extended mix of "The Intellivisionaries Theme", and was going to wait until I finished that before posting the song, but since that may take a little while for me to finish, I will honor your request and make the original mix available on the website by the weekend.

I'll post here, on Facebook and Twitter when it's up.



#37 Intellivisioner OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:07 PM

I am working on the extended mix of "The Intellivisionaries Theme", and was going to wait until I finished that before posting the song, but since that may take a little while for me to finish, I will honor your request and make the original mix available on the website by the weekend.

I'll post here, on Facebook and Twitter when it's up.

 

YES!!! Please do so!

I am also fascinated by this great intro song :music:



#38 JasonlikesINTV ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:21 PM

I like it too. I would buy Intellivisionaries S01 Soundtrack ;-)

#39 nurmix OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:47 PM

Alright then.. coming soon to the website..


#40 DZ-Jay OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:40 PM

Haha, thank dZ. You know I used to DJ in the mid to late '80s as well (that's where 'Nurmix' came from - when I made my own mix/remix of a song).

I am working on the extended mix of "The Intellivisionaries Theme", and was going to wait until I finished that before posting the song, but since that may take a little while for me to finish, I will honor your request and make the original mix available on the website by the weekend.

I'll post here, on Facebook and Twitter when it's up.

 

Well, an extended mix would be more than cool! :)

 

     -dZ.



#41 nurmix OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:37 PM

Well, an extended mix would be more than cool! :)

-dZ.


That will be done too, don't worry. The original version is only about 1 minute, so I have to make a longer version!

#42 Lathe26 ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:29 AM

.. DZ had an interesting summary of some of this kind of material in another thread....

 
Here's DZ-Jay's summary from a thread (in response to my question).  Thought I'd share it
http://atariage.com/...nnel/?p=2872002



#43 DZ-Jay OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:49 AM

I'm listening to the podcast right now, and I just wanted to say that this is your best episode yet!  The interview with Rick Levine was just mind-blowing.  I'm loving it (it's still playing)!

 

He sounds like such a nice man, and his anecdotes of the production of Microsurgeon were awesome.  I also enjoyed very much the in-depth discussion of Microsurgeon, which is one of my all-time favourite Intellivision games.

 

Thanks again for doing this--keep it up!

 

       -dZ.



#44 DZ-Jay OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:41 AM

Phew! I just made it all the way through.  FANTASTIC!

 

Oh, and before I forget:  Nurmix, include the closing song when you publish the intro! ;)

 

Great work.

 

      -dZ.



#45 nurmix OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:35 PM

Thanks Dz. I really enjoyed talking to Rick Levine too. We intend to keep going for quite some time. And we're lining up more "alumni" interviews as well.

Re: the outro tune... Consider it done.



#46 IntyPod Burgertime OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Dec 2, 2013 12:13 AM

I'll be getting around to playing the game for episode 4 and recording my solo segment hopefully soon. So glad that everyone has been enjoying the shows so far! It's been great hearing from different people about what they think of it. I've had a couple family members who aren't that computer savvy how they could listen, and a new co-worker added the show to his iPhone the first night we worked together. He overheard me mentioning the show to another co-worker who's worked with me for a couple years now, and he got curious.

 

And coming from inspiration from William's interview, I may even have my own game idea to put out there ;) 



#47 bikeguychicago OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Dec 2, 2013 11:03 PM

Just an FYI Nurmix: Your podcast is not returned when searching on the word 'Intellivision' in iTunes.



#48 nurmix OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 3, 2013 9:53 PM

Just an FYI Nurmix: Your podcast is not returned when searching on the word 'Intellivision' in iTunes.


Thanks for that, bikeguychicago. It shows up for me.. strange.

#49 nurmix OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 4, 2013 12:57 AM

OK, my original Intellivisionaries intro and outro music tracks are available on our Libsyn page (stream or download the high quality mp3):

 

http://intellivisionaries.libsyn.com/

 

 

I also started a new thread about it (just in case anyone wants to know who isn't reading this thread):

 

http://atariage.com/...s-outros-music/

 

 

Enjoy!

 

 

-Paul



#50 DZ-Jay OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 4, 2013 4:28 AM

w00t! THANKS!!!! I'm looping it here to hear more than a minute of each. :)

 

I can't wait for the extended mix.






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