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atr-8000 cp/m system disk atr-8000 cp/m system disks

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#176 Caterpiggle OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:55 AM

Oh, I see.

#177 ricortes OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:19 AM

I tried all 3 of the New FDC's that I bought and all 3 work the same, so I must have a weak TTL chip in-line with the FDC...

What error messages are you getting during the format?



#178 AtariGeezer OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:22 PM

What error messages are you getting during the format?

173 - Bad disk or drive.  The XF551 mech still works as normal in it's own setup and the SF314 still works on the ST and the floppies format on a PC with no bad sectors.  Using SDX, it reports the format is complete, but can't write afterwards...  Weird...



#179 AtariGeezer OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:13 AM

173 - Bad disk or drive.  The XF551 mech still works as normal in it's own setup and the SF314 still works on the ST and the floppies format on a PC with no bad sectors.  Using SDX, it reports the format is complete, but can't write afterwards...  Weird...

Did some further testing and after the format I see that the 1st sector of the first 9 tracks is readable.  I'm thinking that the 7406's might be at fault?

I'll desolder those two and pop in a socket, then use some new 7416's and see what goes...



#180 ricortes OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:25 AM

Not trying to oversimplify it, but you checked all the other possibilities<except for LS chip replacement which is on your hit list>. Could you try a new drive cable? Reason I say that is all the 1797 seem to be getting the commands right, they run off and try to format the disk, but fail on using it. Kind of implies everything between the Atari and 1797 is agreeing but raw data from the read may be munged: Anything from spin to bits screwing up. The two cables I had, hadn't been used in maybe twenty years and both gave errors so I had to buy new ones and clean edge connectors on the ATR.

 

I did buy some standard 34 pin connectors Monday will install them on my MB today. I have some other mischief of dubious value I am up to that I should get done.



#181 AtariGeezer OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:36 PM

Kind of implies everything between the Atari and 1797 is agreeing but raw data from the read may be munged: Anything from spin to bits screwing up. The two cables I had, hadn't been used in maybe twenty years and both gave errors so I had to buy new ones and clean edge connectors on the ATR.

 

The cable I made for the SF314 still rings out from end to end with no shorts between between adjacent wires.  It uses the ST drive cable spliced to a ribbon cable soldered to a edge card connector and is about 2 feet long.

 

The 34 pin cable I'm using with the XF551 drive mech is from a pulled working Win98 PC,  I tried the 34 pin cable from a working Win95 desktop too with the same results...

 

The 7406 Hex Buffers connect between the 1797 and floppy port which I think are the problem as the original 1797 was foobar.  The 7406's have a output rating of 30 volts, where the 7416's have an output of 15 volts.  This is why I'm going to swap those out and it just might be the problem...



#182 tregare OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:05 AM

is there information anywhere as to what addresses the various ports on the atr 8000 are at.



#183 ricortes OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:18 AM

If you mean in an Atari level of documentation with books like Mapping the Atari or DeRe Atari, no. You aren't completely flying blind since CP/M itself is available as source code as well as the ATR8000 ROM. The processor does follow the Intel/Zilog format for talking to hardware vs. memory mapped like the 6502.

 

Lot's of things are familiar outside of that. They use something equivalent to Atari CIOV so you set up the ~device control block in RAM to do what you want i.e. load a specific sector into a specific memory area, and just jump to<CALL> the vector that does the grunt work. Most of the routines can be found in either the source code for the ROM or in the ATR8000 manual.

 

I don't think the lack of documentation is due to a shortage of Z80 or CP/M experts. It's more of a problem with timing and the way the market was fragmented with literally hundreds of different CP/M designs. So now we have maybe six ATR8000 in the world that are ~mostly running? Those aren't the kind of inspiring numbers that would encourage someone to write a book. :)



#184 sup8pdct OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:20 PM

                    ; OUT
     $20                ; printer data out (pin 13)

                    ; IN
                    ; printer control lines
                           ; BIT 7 Busy
                           ; BIT 6 Paper out?
                           ; BIT 5 Select?
                           ; Bit 4 Ack?
                    
                    ; OUT
     $30                                ; floppy control lines
                           ; Bit 0 DSEL 1
                           ; BIT 1 DSEL 2
                           ; BIT 2 DSEL 3
                           ; BIT 3 DSEL 4
                           ; BIT 4 Master reset fdc ?
                           ; BIT 5 Sidesel
                           ; BIT 6 5-1/4" - 8" select?
                           ; BIT 7 DD ENable

                    ; IN  OUT
                    ; FDC
     $40                ; Command/status
     $41                ; Track
     $42                ; sector
     $43                    ; Data
        
     $50                                ; In
                           ; Bit 1 CTS/DSR or pin 11?  Set by jumper
                           ; Bit 2 Ring Ind
                    : Bit 4 Printer enable/disable jumper
                           ; Bit 7 RS232 serial in
                    ;------------------------------------------

                    ; OUT
                       ; Bit zero used to switch states.
     $50                ; Atari serial output
     $51                ; Rs232 serial output
     $52                                ; Rom enable/disable
     $53                                ; Printer strobe
     $54                ; Index control flop set
     $55                                ; Rs232 out line. RTS/DTR Set by jumper
     $56                                ; Index control flop clear
     $57                                ; Atari cmd/data mux control

                    ; IN
     $70                                ; Atati sio buss Z80 in
                           ; BIT 1 Command
                    ; Bit 3 +5v - Atari on
                           ; BIT 7 Serial out, recieve data from consol

                    ; CTC
                    ; Bit 1 Start/stop count. =1 stop
                    ; Bit 2 Time constant will/wont follow. 1= will follow
                    ; Bit 3 When to start timer. Int t2 or external trig 1= trig
                    ; Bit 4 Pos/Neg edge trigger. 1= pos
                    ; Bit 5 16/256 divider. 1= /256. timer only
                    ; Bit 6 Counter/timer mode. 1= counter
                    ; Bit 7 channel int enable =1
     $80                ; Channel 1  Tigg on SIO command and data?? Schematic correct?
     $81                ; Channel 2
     $82                ; channel 3  Trigg on rs232 data in
     $83                ; channel 4

 

james



#185 Jim Patchell OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:23 PM

I am sort of jumping into this thread in the middle, but does anybody actually know what the bit pattern is in the 74S288 prom (u46) in the data seperator?  Need this info for a hacking project I am considering (implementing the ATR8000 in an FPGA).  Thanks.

-Jim



#186 a8isa1 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:53 PM

Here is a ZIP archive of files etc that i have created that may interest people and includes files and instructions on how to create a bootable CPM disk on/for the ATR8000. I have included quite a bit. except for the ATR8000 manual. I would like the CPM manual for the ATR8000 but noone has scanned it yet.

 

James

Sorry, James!

 

I never realized you brought your project to the point where a complete distribution disk is built.  I thought you left it to the user to add the files after building a bootable disk.

 

Here's my results, almost 3 years late  :o

 

Format and build the disk on a genuine 180K drive - Success

Format disk on 180K drive build using 360K drive   - Success

Bulk erase disk, format and build w/ 360K drive, SSDD - BIOS, Bdos, and bad sector errors

 

I checked that last one four different times with always the same result.

 

-SteveS


Edited by a8isa1, Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:54 PM.


#187 sup8pdct OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:14 PM

I have to revisit this as it was some time ago.

 

 

Am unable to explain what is happening in your 3rd option.

Maybe atr is picking up something on 2nd side and creating an error??

 

I assume you have created a working system disk from what is in the archive and a files disk to create more CPM disks with its default format?

I do remember an error i created on a disk on a large text or source file. It spans 2 directory entries and i messed up the linking or something.

 

My ATR isn't working properly so unable to test. Need to find the correct FDC.

 

James



#188 Kyle22 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:34 PM

Sorry, James!

 

I never realized you brought your project to the point where a complete distribution disk is built.  I thought you left it to the user to add the files after building a bootable disk.

 

Here's my results, almost 3 years late  :o

 

Format and build the disk on a genuine 180K drive - Success

Format disk on 180K drive build using 360K drive   - Success

Bulk erase disk, format and build w/ 360K drive, SSDD - BIOS, Bdos, and bad sector errors

 

I checked that last one four different times with always the same result.

 

-SteveS

 

How about taking one of your good 180K builds and modifying the DPB for 360K? Patch in the new numbers and write it using SYSGEN (or the ATR equivalent).

 

DPB info (NOT ATR specific) here: http://www.gaby.de/c....htm#Figure_6-4

 

More good stuff: http://torlus.com/fl...c.php?f=2&t=899



#189 sup8pdct OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:55 PM

The native atr8000 disk format is 2048 byte sectors (memory is a little fuzzy here). a system disk has the 1st 2 tracks of side 0 at 512 byte sectors except for the 1st sector of 1st track and last sector of 2nd track which are 128 bytes regardless of what rest of disk is formatted at.

Once you have system booted and a working data disk, simply create a disk at default settings, copy data to it and create a system dsik on it.

 

James



#190 a8isa1 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:47 PM

I have to revisit this as it was some time ago.

 

 

Am unable to explain what is happening in your 3rd option.

Maybe atr is picking up something on 2nd side and creating an error??

 

I assume you have created a working system disk from what is in the archive and a files disk to create more CPM disks with its default format?

I do remember an error i created on a disk on a large text or source file. It spans 2 directory entries and i messed up the linking or something.

 

My ATR isn't working properly so unable to test. Need to find the correct FDC.

 

James

I don't understand what you are asking.

 

The disks formatted and built in the 360K drive actually will boot but all of the files contained within seem corrupt.   The commands TYPE and DIR work.   I couldn't remember any other CP/M intrinsic commands or I would have tried them. However, the command processor seemed OK.


Edited by a8isa1, Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:48 PM.


#191 Kyle22 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:36 PM

If you TYPE a text file, do you see the text?  Or, do you see garbage?

 

Edit: ATR-8000 CP/M manual attached. Look at pages 18-19 for DPB info.

 

Attached File  ATR8000.pdf   2.16MB   55 downloads

 

 

 


Edited by Kyle22, Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:48 PM.


#192 a8isa1 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:43 PM

If you TYPE a text file, do you see the text?  Or, do you see garbage?

 

Edit: ATR-8000 CP/M manual attached. Look at pages 18-19 for DPB info.

 

attachicon.gifATR8000.pdf

 

 

 

I see about 5 lines of text then BIOS error, Bdos error,  and bunch of Sect errors.  (Something like that).  The same kind error I get if I try to run any program in the directory listing.  None load successfully.



#193 Kyle22 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:17 PM

It sounds like the BIOS is confused about the disk format.  The closest example I can quickly think of is Sparta 1.x.  It is not visible as a file.  It resides on, and is booted from the boot track(s).  That has nothing to do with the main file system.  You could corrupt the file system bitmap and still boot DOS, but you'd get errors on any attempted disk access to load or run a file.

 

This (again) is directly related to the DPB.

 

Why not just make a 180K working, bootable disk and let the end user use the tools provided by SWP to modify the disk parameters?



#194 sup8pdct OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:44 AM

sounds like the version of cpm booted doesn't properly see the 256 byte sectors or expects 1024 bytes of sector data. sounds like a drive parameter isn't set up. i haven't looked at or decoded the drive paramater table  so it will take some work.

I assumed the deblocking code could read the 256 byte sectors without a problem as it is one option within the format program.

Digging through the source shows a setting for 256 byte sectors!??!

 

Maybe more code needs to be downloaded to the atr to format the diisk or somehow get a cpm version that has the 256 byte sector tables built in.

 

Does it throw up an error number? or just error??

 

James



#195 a8isa1 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:16 AM

I'll probably have to recreate the disk one more time to answer

 

sounds like the version of cpm booted doesn't properly see the 256 byte sectors or expects 1024 bytes of sector data. sounds like a drive parameter isn't set up. i haven't looked at or decoded the drive paramater table  so it will take some work.

I assumed the deblocking code could read the 256 byte sectors without a problem as it is one option within the format program.

Digging through the source shows a setting for 256 byte sectors!??!

 

Maybe more code needs to be downloaded to the atr to format the diisk or somehow get a cpm version that has the 256 byte sector tables built in.

 

Does it throw up an error number? or just error??

 

James

I'll probably have to recreate the disk one more time to answer any questions.  I was making sound samples of disk drives for Phaeron.  I'm sure I kept the good disk and used the corrupt one for the sounds of formatting.

 

I have one thought.   Could something have gone wrong at the formatting or sector copying stages?

 

In my second test I used a disk formatted on the 180K drive but did the sector copying of CPMFILES.atr and let CPMBOOT.EXE do it's manipulating using a 360K drive.  This worked fine.

 

In my third test I bulk erased a floppy.   Using MyDOS I configured the drive as single sided and formatted it and then the rest all on the 360K drive.

 

In my mind these two tests should have produced similar results.

 

I also repeated the third test but I let the sector copier do the formatting and I used each method twice.  Four times I had the same result.

 

I didn't bother trying other sector copiers or other DOSes.  Should I?

 

-SteveS



#196 ricortes OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:02 AM

We probably should just give up the ghost and start working in 128 byte, FM, 90k disks. I never got around to doing it, but I should look at using the original format disk program for the ATR that produced 128 byte sector boot disks. I'm not sure if it was 8" only but at least we could stand a chance of making a boot disk that could be archived and transferred with a stock Atari drive like an 810 or 1050. Should'a, could'a would'a, made a CPM disk that could be copied with ~ANADISK instead of erroring out. I have a slightly busted 8" drive that I could get started on seeing if it is within my limits for repairing to work with. No power supply for it but the only thing I am missing is the 24V head load supply.



#197 sup8pdct OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:25 PM

We probably should just give up the ghost and start working in 128 byte, FM, 90k disks. I never got around to doing it, but I should look at using the original format disk program for the ATR that produced 128 byte sector boot disks. I'm not sure if it was 8" only but at least we could stand a chance of making a boot disk that could be archived and transferred with a stock Atari drive like an 810 or 1050. Should'a, could'a would'a, made a CPM disk that could be copied with ~ANADISK instead of erroring out. I have a slightly busted 8" drive that I could get started on seeing if it is within my limits for repairing to work with. No power supply for it but the only thing I am missing is the 24V head load supply.

Doesn't matter what the disk is formatted at. DDsysgen will reformat the 1st 2 tracks on side 0 to what is said above.

I have messed around with anadisk a lot. I found i could recreate a disk except for the 1st 128 byte boot sector. for some reason, either anadisk or the disk controller in the pc couldn't handle it properly. Only way i could get it to work was to recreate the disk with anadisk, then go to atr8000 with disk and manually write sector 1 only despite it being MFM. Also be careful with some anadisk images that are around. some are corrupted.

I will have to think about creating a disk with the atr8000 formatted with 1024 byte sectors and write them out.....

 

 

Just reading the cpm manual and found something interesting.  Do you have 2 drive mechs to hook up to your ATR? If so try the disk created above in the 2nd mech,

 

James



#198 a8isa1 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:24 PM

Doesn't matter what the disk is formatted at. DDsysgen will reformat the 1st 2 tracks on side 0 to what is said above.

I have messed around with anadisk a lot. I found i could recreate a disk except for the 1st 128 byte boot sector. for some reason, either anadisk or the disk controller in the pc couldn't handle it properly. Only way i could get it to work was to recreate the disk with anadisk, then go to atr8000 with disk and manually write sector 1 only despite it being MFM. Also be careful with some anadisk images that are around. some are corrupted.

I will have to think about creating a disk with the atr8000 formatted with 1024 byte sectors and write them out.....

 

 

Just reading the cpm manual and found something interesting.  Do you have 2 drive mechs to hook up to your ATR? If so try the disk created above in the 2nd mech,

 

James

Same error with disk as A: or B:    Second mech is the same model Chinon.

 

I took a picture earlier today.  laptop webcam photo application (Cheese) is bad for photographing a CRT.

 

[attachment=496570:2017-03-11-184044_1.jpg

Attached Thumbnails

  • 2017-03-11-184044_1.jpg


#199 sup8pdct OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:12 AM

hmmmm.looks like it is trying to read second side.

 

Have to be very careful setting up double sided disks with atari. Xf551 reads side 0 from track 1 to 40 then side 1 from track 40 to track 1.  Not sure what atr does for atari disks. A percom? would do the 2nd side from track 1 to track 40. std double sided on atr cpm does side 0 then 1, step then side 0,1 etc.  will need to setup a disk that is double sided. Need to do some major figuring out.

 

James


Edited by sup8pdct, Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:12 AM.


#200 Kyle22 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:53 AM

Doesn't matter what the disk is formatted at. DDsysgen will reformat the 1st 2 tracks on side 0 to what is said above.

I have messed around with anadisk a lot. I found i could recreate a disk except for the 1st 128 byte boot sector. for some reason, either anadisk or the disk controller in the pc couldn't handle it properly. Only way i could get it to work was to recreate the disk with anadisk, then go to atr8000 with disk and manually write sector 1 only despite it being MFM. Also be careful with some anadisk images that are around. some are corrupted.

I will have to think about creating a disk with the atr8000 formatted with 1024 byte sectors and write them out.....

 

 

Just reading the cpm manual and found something interesting.  Do you have 2 drive mechs to hook up to your ATR? If so try the disk created above in the 2nd mech,

 

James

 

Is it *ONLY* that one sector that is the problem?

 

Can't you just write some easy BASIC code that sets up the DCB at $300, points destination to sector one, points source to your buffer in a string ADR(SECTORDATA$) and calls SIO?






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