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My classic computer is better than today's modern machines because..


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#26 ApolloBoy OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:41 PM

Not only are computers still fat-ass-at-the-gym slow, It takes hours to set up a printer and make it work right, that and all the dilly-dallying and lollygagging with adjusting settings and registering and installing drivers. And worse yet, once you get it going, it works for a few weeks or months, and then a steady stream of tweaks and updates seems to somehow creep into the situation requiring more and more attention as time rolls on. Heaven forbid you need to get new ink cartridges! Settings seem to magically de-adjust themselves from optimal.

I mean, like I got this wireless printer here, and the fucker still won't talk to the computer which is sitting right next to it. I mean WTF? Just tell it to look to the left and call it a day! For heavens sakes.. It's sitting right HERE!!!

I remember BITD my old Epson MX-80 F/T w/Graftrax III, a dot-matrix printer for you noobs (herin and thereafter referred to as "old Epson") was the best. I had it out of the box and running in like 20 minutes. Including the initial self-test! By the 30-minute mark I had learned the PR#1 command and how it "echoed" shit from the screen. My next task was to actually print something useful, before the hour was up! I made a banner or some sign or some shit with Print Shop. And I listed out my BBS code which was like 30 pages long.

Later on I got a Microbuffer (which we emphatically called the boofer). And this let the system do things like CATALOG a disk or play a game while printer banged out another 65 pages of BBS code listing. And best of all it took less than 5 minutes to set up! Unreal..

Dude, it was like glorious!

And all this included a huge-ass manual, a separate interface cable, a heavy box of paper, and a separate circuit board made by a totally different manufacturer! OMG! A circuit board?!?!? You mean you had to touch 'lectric parts? Isn't that dangerous? How could those consumer watchdog associations allow this??

And on this circuit board was the printer driver itself! A 2K-byte ROM. And it had like 16 options, 10 of which applied in niche applications. Incredible! And it worked!

(coming up next: My new rant on the PC's race to the bottom and how it won!) Should I make a new thread or post it here?


...

I think you might be getting senile.

Edited by ApolloBoy, Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:42 PM.


#27 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:03 PM

Doubt it. Next!



#28 AtariLeaf OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:19 PM

I've never had a problem setting up a printer. Are you sure you know what you're doing Keatah? Older generations do have trouble working new fangled technology. Maybe a pen and some paper would be more your speed, or perhaps a pointy stick and some dirt?



#29 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:10 PM

I should have mentioned I was pointing out some instances where printers are a pain in the ass. And I think you'll will agree that hp software from certain models/years is really top heavy with options and patches.

 

One time I was setting up an hp printer, C7280, and I needed something like 8 software executables to be run in a specific order. And only then did all the [already-installed-software, power-save, scanner, network printing, OCR, Printer-PC communication, and minimal nag-screens] work correctly.

 

hp 7280 New-1.png

 

Part (0) What you see here is the .exe equivalent of the original install disk.

Parts (1) through (5) are updates, manually done. And fix network and USB PC-to-Printer communication issues.

Part (6) is newer driver set for a different model, but it contains the latest control panel that works fully and completely across several other models. Recommended by hp tier-2 support that this be used to fix a nag screen that couldn't be disabled.

Part (7) is a browser plugin.

The last part, 8, is something I didn't install, but I grabbed it just in case. You can appreciate completeness.

 

Only then did the system become rock-solid, pass 100% of the diagnostics, have each option and check-box in the utility toolkit work the way it is supposed to, and work with all the user applications.

 

Also, the hp auto-update did not push 2 of the updates it was supposed to. +1 for manual updates! Woot!

 

Not shown is a text-file description of each file, what it does, when it was d'l, and all that.

And the () indicate what order these drivers and patches are to be installed.

Imagine having to find and d'l these drivers 5 years from now. If that'd even be possible.

 

There have been times when I've never needed to do all this, simply plug-in the printer and get rolling. It certainly wasn't with hp products. Anyhow, those times are becoming fewer and farther apart.

 



#30 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:47 PM

As a matter of fact, my annual summer tech-bash party was "overwhelmed" with hp trash. And mostly printers. This is a party where you bring your most troublesome piece of tech equipment with you. And we have all kinds of fun busting it up. My guests usually bring PC hardware almost universally. Extra brownie points if it is fully functional.

 

We all load up on Vodka (or pick your poison). And you try and find the most creative and violent way of destroying your stuff.  Burning, hydraulic crushing, exploding, melting, shattering, smashing, whatever works to make it never work again. And if I like how you destroyed it I replace it for you with a product that is less troublesome.  Anything goes!



#31 Osgeld OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:50 PM

so you cant install a 7 year old printer on a 14 year old OS? maybe you should just get rid of your rickety old garbage



#32 wood_jl OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:36 PM

I, too, miss the days of near-instant boot.   But that was before the days of the Internet and malware, and 3,000 attempts-per-day of your server being hacked from bots in  China.

 

Windows Updates suck, but I can't help but be grateful for them, for how much worse would it be, without them?

 

My only Linux experience is with Ubuntu  (I'm thinking of switching to MINT but know very little), which updates fairly-frequently, as well, although we all know it's more secure than Windows.

 

I wish I had some serious seat time with a Modern Mac; I really like them but they're just so expensive, now!   I'm guessing that they must update, too.  There's just no way around it, is there?  I liked my ST booting in a few seconds (as long as there was a readable floppy in drive A), but an automated Windows/Linux update (annoying as they are) is a whole lot easier than disassembling the machine and prying the TOS ROMs out of the sockets!



#33 edweird13 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:11 AM

I have to agree HP screwed the pooch with its early attempts at usb printing. I still don't trust usb over parallel printing on a local pc setting. I hate the MFP's too much software to get in the way. Give me network printing. I miss my hp laser jet IIIp.



#34 MarkO OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:21 AM

<< SNIP >>

I remember BITD my old Epson MX-80 F/T w/Graftrax III, a dot-matrix printer for you noobs (herin and thereafter referred to as "old Epson") was the best. I had it out of the box and running in like 20 minutes. Including the initial self-test! By the 30-minute mark I had learned the PR#1 command and how it "echoed" shit from the screen. My next task was to actually print something useful, before the hour was up! I made a banner or some sign or some shit with Print Shop. And I listed out my BBS code which was like 30 pages long.


My High School has an MX-80 on one of the Apples, but my Dad bought a Star Micronix 10 for our Apple....

Later on I got a Microbuffer (which we emphatically called the boofer). And this let the system do things like CATALOG a disk or play a game while printer banged out another 65 pages of BBS code listing. And best of all it took less than 5 minutes to set up! Unreal..
 
 
<< SNIP >>


I liked the MicroBuffer too... I "splurged" and got the Parallel/Serial Unit with 64K on board as my first Printer Interface... After using the MX-80 at school with a "dumb" Interface, I knew how it would Slow EVERYTHING DOWN... I wonder if my dad realized how much time I spent getting "good" equipment for our home system, rather than just buy "something" and live with it...

#35 MarkO OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:23 AM

<< SNIP >>
 
My only Linux experience is with Ubuntu  (I'm thinking of switching to MINT but know very little), which updates fairly-frequently, as well, although we all know it's more secure than Windows.
 
<< SNIP >>


MINT is a Ubuntu derivation, just like Debian...

The 64Bit version of MINT has a real nice Installer, that will take a Windows 7 system, and repartition it and install GRUB and MINT on the Drive, without reinstalling the Windows 7.. I did this to a Laptop I bought for my youngest Daughter..

Edited by MarkO, Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:29 AM.


#36 TPA5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:49 AM

My classic computer is better than today's modern machines because.........it isn't. Sorry, it just isn't. Whatever trivial advantages classic systems offer (instant boot-up, no need for virus protection since you won't be downloading things anyway, etc) are colossally outweighed by the advantages of newer systems.

As much as I enjoy my Commodores and Ataris and TRS-80s and whatnot, if it weren't for the games, there would really be no reason to ever touch one again.

 

Pretty much what BassGuitari. I love classic computers, and they're a ton of fun to play around with. But they don't hold a candle to the systems of today, and I don't see why that's a big deal. These threads bashing modern technology just don't make sense to me. You wouldn't be posting this thread to a forum talking about your gaming systems and computers from yester-year without modern technology. If we hadn't moved forward, than none of us would be finding out information on old consoles and computers, sharing software, hardware mods, collections, or any of that. It's like saying cars would be better if we hadn't ruined them with air conditioning and cruise control. Old tech is great amounts of fun, but today's technology surpasses the heck out of it. These threads of relatively unfounded modern tech bashing are beginning to sound like little more than complaints for the sake of complaints. I plug in a printer to my computer and guess what, 2 minutes later I was printing out documents on it. I plugged my DSLR camera into my computer and guess what? I was pulling pictures from it a few minutes later. I plugged in a game controller into my computer and guess what? I started gaming with it. It's the rare time I have genuine trouble with my computer. Alas, there are always people who tend towards the negative side of things. For those, may I direct your attention to: http://www.wikihow.c...dged-Curmudgeon



#37 Rex Dart OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:10 AM

My modern computer can run 50 of your classic computers in a window while running Skyrim on a second screen.   Microbuffer?  Sounds like hell.



#38 BydoEmpire OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:49 AM

Geez, some of you guys need to lighten up. This should be a fun thread.

1) I hit the power switch, and it's ON (ignore the 3 minutes it takes for my software to load off the 1541...)
2) Software doesn't just magically stop working one day for unknown reasons.
3) Better games!
4) I actually know how the system works, and that's comforting. There aren't 45 layers of stuff going on.
5) Still works after 30 years!

#39 desiv OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:58 PM

... it gets better reactions from visitor's.
Even when I've had nice new PCs, no one has really taken a look and said "Wow, that's great! I remember that!!!" or something similar.
The closest I've had is a "That's new, isn't it?"

;-)

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#40 5-11under OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:38 PM

It all fits in the keyboard (usually).

Silent... no fan.



#41 Aquaman OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:47 PM

You don't have to deal with Microsoft Windows on any computer, modern or classic.

Sure you are right if you have a choice! But at work most of us are forced to use Microsoft Windows computers. At least in The Netherlands that is the case and I doubt that we are very different from the rest of the world in this respect!

#42 Osgeld OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:46 PM

Geez, some of you guys need to lighten up. This should be a fun thread.

 would be if the op didnt make 3 a week



#43 Osgeld OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:48 PM

MINT is a Ubuntu derivation, just like Debian...

 

Debian is the base distro, which ubuntu made their distro on top of, then mint made theirs on top of debian and or ubuntu



#44 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:59 PM

Possible for one person to understand all aspects of the machine.

 

Time spend on a classical computer back in the day was more appreciated and more wisely used. Today there is so much wasted time and frivolity because of the internet. And not to mention people whom are using a computer who shouldn't be.



#45 JamesD OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:02 PM

Possible for one person to understand all aspects of the machine.

 

Time spend on a classical computer back in the day was more appreciated and more wisely used. Today there is so much wasted time and frivolity because of the internet. And not to mention people whom are using a computer who shouldn't be.

Learning to program them was so much easier.  Now you have reams of literature on the APIs and it can take months to wade through.



#46 The Usotsuki OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:21 PM

 

Debian is the base distro, which ubuntu made their distro on top of, then mint made theirs on top of debian and or ubuntu

Both in fact, as the regular Mint is an Ubuntu derivative but there's also LMDE which is directly based on Debian.



#47 AtariLeaf OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:33 PM

My classic 3-legged stool with a nail sticking out of it so it pokes my bum is so much better than my comfy soft new couch. Why? I built that stool myself, crafted it with my own hands. I know every inch of it and even though it isn't practical today, I still take it out once in a while if I want a good poke in the bum

 

Plus it boots instantly when I kick it. When I booted my couch I just got a broken toe. Stupid new comfortable and easy to sit in couches. Damn you!!

 

Oh my wife also informed me that the new couch isn't "compatible" with our other furniture so it all has to be replaced. My stool was compatible with everything I had before I was married, especially "milk crate book shelf 2.0"



#48 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:38 PM

I recall the Synertek version of the 6502 manual was like 100 or 150 pages. I still have my copy! The pages were as thin as toilet paper, one fart and they'd rip in two!

 

The equivalent x86 manual encompassing all (classic and modern) instruction sets and extensions is something like 5,800 pages depending upon exactly what you include. This is cumulative and culminates with Haswell at the top of the heap. I would venture to guess Skymont will be 7,000 pages long!

 

To be fair to intel (and the x86 camp), the 8086 + 8087 instruction set reference guide was about 200 pages BITD.



#49 Osgeld OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:09 PM

Learning to program them was so much easier.  Now you have reams of literature on the APIs and it can take months to wade through.

I would argue that point, having something more than a line editor and a book makes a world of difference, and there are plenty of simplified programming languages today that are quite powerful and functional



#50 Osgeld OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:11 PM

And not to mention people whom are using a computer who shouldn't be.

Like grouchy old farts who claim to be computer geniuses then whine it takes an hour to install a stupid inkjet in windows ;)






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