Retro gaming: HDTV or SD CRT?

[TaskenLander]

As I slowly but surely work to complete my mancave/game room, I'm faced with a new dilemma...

 

As my retro console gaming collection/obsession grows, I'm finding the image of some of my retro games jarring on my 32' LCD 1080p TV. I also have a PS3 in the room but am considering 'upgrading lol' my HD TV to a SD TV and putting the HD TV in the bedroom (which the wife would like) and move the PS3 downstairs to the bigger living room HDTV.

 

I'm leaning towards this tv. Someone is selling one on craigslist for $15.00.

http://www.mediacollege.com/equipment/sony/tv/kv/kv27fs320.html

 

I just want my retro games to look 'correct' and brighter/sharper.

 

 

Thoughts/suggestions?

 

 

Thanks in advance,

Mike

[akator]

The Sony Wega TVs have a very nice picture. Check for normal CRT things like burn-in and color problems, otherwise you should be very happy with it for classic gaming.

 

The biggest (literally) downside to that TV (and large CRTs in general) is the size and weight.

[Cobra Kai]

HDTV with a video up-convertor like this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003NS0UUQ/ref=oh_details_o08_s00_i02?ie=UTF8&psc=1\

 

I'll swear by that device when using S-Video as your input. It's not so great if you just use it with Composite video, however. I'm actually really wanting to get my really old stuff modified for S-video output, like the 5200 and 7800 etc.. because the upconversion of S-video is nothing short of amazing in my opinion.

[Algus]

Thanks for the link Nuclear Pacman. I didn't know a critter like this existed.

[Cobra Kai]

I play Tempest 2000 and Defender 2000 frequently on Jaguar using that thing, and I'm not lying when I say that I just glare at the screen with amazement at how crisp the graphics are now, and with the vibrant colors.

 

That device has a 50/60hz switch, and upconverts to 1080p despite the specs only listing it as a 720p upconvertor. You choose the ouptut resolution up to 1080p.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Nuclear Pacman

[108 Stars]

If you wanna keep your HDTV something like the Framemeister series is the best:

 

http://www.solarisjapan.com/xrgb-mini-framemeister-compact-up-scaler-unit/

 

It's pricey, but it definitely beats cheap upscalers and offers a great picture with optional scanlines and stuff. It's worth checking out reviews of different devices if you really want the best option that will serve you well for a long time.

[SiLic0ne t0aD]

I have a nice 36"Toshiba crt that I been using for a couple years now, works great. Hoping to get a nice HD flat-screen TV around income tax time, at least 42"

[roland p]

I would definitly get a SD CRT for retro gaming for the following reasons:

- 4:3 apect ratio (hdtv's are always 16:9)

- No fancy upscaling needed

- phosphor look (it's bright and can handle fast moving (scrolling!) stuff like no LCD does)

- better sound due to more space for speakers in the tv

Edited January 29, 2014 by roland p

[+GoldenWheels]

I would definitly get a SD CRT for retro gaming for the following reasons:

- 4:3 apect ratio (hdtv's are always 16:9)

- No fancy upscaling needed

- phosphor look (it's bright and can handle fast moving (scrolling!) stuff like no LCD does)

- better sound due to more space for speakers in the tv

 

There is no reason your 16:9 TV can't display a native 4:3 signal properly--unless this is something they have just done away with as unnecessary, but I doubt that. My 60 inch showing is 45 inch 4:3 inch equivalent running native, and tube TVs normally never even approach that size (I think there is a 40 out there somewhere a few companies made)

 

I find the sound one somewhat dubious as well. It's not all about size with speakers (how LOUD do these games really need to be played?) and for many retro systems we are talking mono here. Mono.

 

I will say I do like the phosphor look for Joust. Cool little trails, etc.

 

My advice, as always when this topic comes up--light guns aside--is play the games more and have fun, and worry less about the TV. It just isn't that important.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I actually have the exact same device that Nuclear Pacman talked about on my setup and love it! Like he stated it produces an amazing s-video to HDMI signal! And I have modified several of my older systems with s-video just because of this little guy and the excellent results its gives me.

 

I do want to state something regarding the 4:3 aspect however. On my LED flat panel I'm using, you do not have the ability to change the picture aspect when using any of the HDMI inputs on it. So... using the upconverter I'm still stuck with a stretched imaged. But after using it for over a year, I've gotten quite used to it and now find it odd when I power on the Dreamcast through the VGA connection and it comes up in 4:3 with the borders. I've even thought of putting the s-video cable back onto my Dreamcast just because of this.

Edited January 29, 2014 by -^Cro§Bow^-

[+GoldenWheels]

I actually have the exact same device that Nuclear Pacman talked about on my setup and love it! Like he stated it produces an amazing s-video to HDMI signal! And I have modified several of my older systems with s-video just because of this little guy and the excellent results its gives me.

 

I do want to state something regarding the 4:3 aspect however. On my LED flat panel I'm using, you do not have the ability to change the picture aspect when using any of the HDMI inputs on it. So... using the upconverter I'm still stuck with a stretched imaged. But after using it for over a year, I've gotten quite used to it and now find it odd when I power on the Dreamcast through the VGA connection and it comes up in 4:3 with the borders. I've even thought of putting the s-video cable back onto my Dreamcast just because of this.

 

Jeez I figured they'd do that eventually but already? There is really no way to just switch the TV to "Native"? On mine using native, my TV detects whatever I throw at it, does not need to be switched at all.

[TaskenLander]

I'm mildly temped to go with the converter box thing, but would it be worth it if all my systems are composite? Not really interested in doing any mods...

[godslabrat]

If you want to use an HDTV, just try it out first. Some are better than others for classic gaming, but that doesn't mean that HD sets are a pox on older systems.

[boxpressed]

I ordered the one Nuclear Pacman linked to. Just the right price point for the curious. Depending on how good it is, I may be able to move this 14" CRT off my desk and game on the 22" Samsung HDTV I use as my monitor. I use composite a lot more than S-Video, but I'll probably get my 5200 & 7800 modded for S-Video this year.

[Tempest]

For my systems I use one of these: http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?ff3=4&pub=5574883395&toolid=10001&campid=5336500554&customid=&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2FNEW-SCART-RGB-to-YUV-Component-Video-Converter-Scaler-%2F221156873851

 

I think it's technically called a CVS287, but everyone just calls them a SCART to Component converter. It works great with any system that can output RGB through a SCART cable (basically all your 16-bit systems on up). For my older systems that only do composite or RF I use a small SD TV or 1702 monitor as that looks the best (I've tried a lot of other options and always came back to the SD TV or 1702 monitor). At the moment I have my SNES, Genesis, SMS, Saturn, PSX, Neo Geo CD, and Dreamcast hooked up to it. You can also mod a N64 and TurboGrafx for RGB if you have the tools (great page about it here: http://www.chrismcovell.com/gotRGB/)

[+remowilliams]

I'll quote myself from another thread...

 

I use modern flat panels (LED LCD or plasma) with the XRGB-mini. It was the device that after searching for many years finally allowed me to pack away the CRTs. It's not cheap but it's the best, bar none and will eliminate most people's needs for CRTs.

 

http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/framemeister.html

[Tempest]

The XRGB really is the way to go, at least if you've got $350+ to blow.

[bikeguychicago]

One caveat to consider with the LCD/LED TVs is that if you have any light gun games, they will not work.

[108 Stars]

I'll quote myself from another thread...

Aah, another Framemeister-fan. Definitely beats the cheaper devices.

 

I don't own one myself, but a friend does, and I wouldn't play my retro systems on an LED with anything else after seeing it in action. Which is why I have a small LED and a CRT in my room.

Edited January 29, 2014 by 108 Stars

[bikeguychicago]

The XRGB really is the way to go, at least if you've got $350+ to blow.

 

Is there a recommendation for those of us who aren't Warren Buffet?

[Tempest]

 

Is there a recommendation for those of us who aren't Warren Buffet?

Depends on what your setup is. Can your TV natively do 480p? Does it have component inputs or is it HDMI only? This page has a lot of info on the subject, but almost all the devices he reviews are EXPENSIVE! http://scanlines.hazard-city.de/

 

There are two cheap ways to do this though, depending on your setup:

 

1. If you have a nice VGA monitor floating around you can use a GBS-8220 ($40) and some SCART cables ($10-$15) to output any system that can do RGB onto your monitor. Some systems require an extra device called a Sync Strike ($40) to strip out the sync signal. This is what I used until I got my new setup. Keep in mind that light gun games won't work with this setup. You also don't get any scanlines which is either a minus or a plus depending on your preference (you can add a scanline generator if you want though).

 

2. If you have a TV with component input and can do 480p then you can get the CVS287 ($45) and some SCART cables ($10-$15) and go that route. The nice thing about this method is that light gun games will work and you get some nice scanlines. Of course this looks nicer on a CRT than a LCD TV.

 

If you have a higher end HD TV then your options get a bit more expensive. Check out the page I linked to for options.

[PsychedelicShaman]

Devices like the XRGB and mini don't help with the latency issues with HDTVs right? I know some TVs allow a no processing Game mode, but sometimes the latency is still noticeable. Games that require twitch reflexes (Super Mario Bros 2 (jp) or Super Smash Bros. N64) become virtually unplayable on a 100-200ms LED TV. I remember playing SMB2 with a friend on his LED TV after playing it for like 3 weeks straight on a CRT at home, and I kept complaining about the delay not knowing it was the TV itself. Please let me know if I'm wrong, I'd like to ditch the massive CRTs:D

[+wood_jl]

The answer is simple. It depends on how much effort you're willing to devote to retro-gaming, and how much space you have.

 

If effort and space are constraints, plug it into the LCD HDTV and knock yourself out; it'll probably still be fun, but throw away the classic light guns.

 

If effort and space are NOT constraints, then an old CRT set is quite appropriate. I have a small collection of CRTs because I prefer them SO MUCH for classic gaming, but I'm willing to devote the time and space for such.

 

What looks best to me: (1) "classic" (before HD) consoles on CRT sets like they were intended to be used with, with the best-quality connection possible (RF < composite < S-video) , and (2) "modern" HD consoles on LCD sets through HDMI.

 

But if I had neither time nor space for it, I'd still play classic consoles on modern sets.

[Tempest]

You can search your local craigslist for large specialty RGB TVs/monitors like Sony made. I have a NetTV which is basically a 27" monitor that has RGB inputs on it. They're expensive as hell on ebay, but you can get them somewhat cheap on swap sites.

[Atariboy]

If that converter stretches everything, it would drive me nuts using it.

 

 

Jeez I figured they'd do that eventually but already? There is really no way to just switch the TV to "Native"? On mine using native, my TV detects whatever I throw at it, does not need to be switched at all.

 

So how do you go between pillarboxed 4:3 and 16:9 on a console like the Wii? No way for the tv to know that one game should be stretched because it's anamorphic widescreen and another should be displayed unchanged. Requires your intervention with turning stretch mode on and off on your tv as appropriate since they're identical to it.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Atariboy