Omega-TI Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Has anyone here attempted << THIS >> project? What is your take on the completed project? Do you think it was worth the effort? Would you do it again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazoo Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Pictured is a bastardization of the original project and it is not recommended. The original project is just a replacement of the Proms with sockets and Eproms, no added wires. The original code and instructions are attached to this message, and the upgrade has been done by many with great success. Basically if you have a 3.5" drive connected to your TI, you're wasting half the space on the disk without this upgrade. Eproms are available from Bob Carmany. 80tktidc.zip Gazoo 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Not to mention the bending and soldering of the actual chips. Back when I installed a second SID in my C64 for the Stereo SID Player I read where the instructions said to bend the chip's pins and solder to the chip, I though, "oh, hell no!" I have always used sockets, instead, and the original chips go unharmed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary from OPA Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Well worth it, if you can't get an Myarc or Corcomp controller at good price. I also recommend ordering of epproms from Hummingbird (bob), I got my Myarc upgraded to latest 80track thanks to him, and it is good to know that he has TI 80track ones available. I also own an actual TI prototype of their replacement high-density controller that was never released. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Is your TI DSDD controller stable, Gary? I have two of them. One I built up from a parts kit that I bought on eBay in 2000 or so and the other was bought complete--but modified to allow it to remain stable over longer periods (apparently, they tended to overheat, which was part of the reason they hadn't been released yet). Which version of the DM-3 cart came with yours? One of mine had a TI Engineering User Group splash screen and the other was the standard release version. I also have the assembly instructions in one of my documentation books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 The original project is just a replacement of the Proms with sockets and Eproms, no added wires. The original code and instructions are attached to this message, and the upgrade has been done by many with great success. Basically if you have a 3.5" drive connected to your TI, you're wasting half the space on the disk without this upgrade. Eproms are available from Bob Carmany. 80tktidc.zip Gazoo Thanks Gazoo, I'll end up going this route. (I have a couple of other irons in the fire at the moment). 360K DSSD in 80 track will give me the same amount of space I used to have on my old 40 track DSDD CorComp card back in the day. I'm curious though, what is the physical barrier of the TI card that prevents double density? I'm assuming it's not the code. One more question - What program do you 80 track guys use to format your disks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 It's the controller chip FD1771 which does not support double density. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazoo Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Thanks Gazoo, I'll end up going this route. (I have a couple of other irons in the fire at the moment). 360K DSSD in 80 track will give me the same amount of space I used to have on my old 40 track DSDD CorComp card back in the day. I'm curious though, what is the physical barrier of the TI card that prevents double density? I'm assuming it's not the code. One more question - What program do you 80 track guys use to format your disks? From the docs: It is recommended that Disk Manager 2 or Disk Manager 2000 be used for formatting 80 track disks, many other disk managers do not allow the options necessary. When formatting 80 track disks, the user should select 80 tracks, double sided, single density. Some other disk managers may or may not work with 80 track drives, be certain not to use any disk manager not coded for 80 track drives, you may lose data on your disks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 It's the controller chip FD1771 which does not support double density. If that's all it is, it's pretty amazing that after 30+ years there has not been a functional replacement/upgrade or hack. It would be so cool to have 720K' or even a 1.44m drive capacity on the 'ol TI. From the docs: It is recommended that Disk Manager 2 or Disk Manager 2000 be used for formatting 80 track disks, Well I'm half-way there, I already have DM2K burned into cartridge. (Awesome program BTW). Thanks for the NFO guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 All later cards from third party used the more advanced WD1773 controllers from the same family. For an upgrade there are some problems to solve: - The MFM-capable controllers need a higher clock rate (8 MHz vs. 1 MHz for the 1771) - Also, data separation circuits may need modification. Apart from that, the 1771 and 1773 are quite similar. There are specs available; search for FD 1771. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 One of these days I'm going to have to try and mount one of the odd little daughter boards I have that combine a 1771 and a 1773 on the same board. they were designed for a TRS-80, but they are self-contained, so it might be possible to make them work with a TI controller. . . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 All later cards from third party used the more advanced WD1773 controllers from the same family. For an upgrade there are some problems to solve: - The MFM-capable controllers need a higher clock rate (8 MHz vs. 1 MHz for the 1771) - Also, data separation circuits may need modification. Apart from that, the 1771 and 1773 are quite similar. There are specs available; search for FD 1771. The Commodore 1581 3.5" drive was based upon the FD-1772, but ISTR there were some failure issues with either that chip or a specific run of that chip. Used to be able to pick up replacements on the cheap. Now I have a little more time to spend with my preciouses I wish I had snagged up bunch of replacement parts for various items. I remember seeing chips like 1770 through 1773 in catalogs, even in retail packs at Radio Shack! One of these days I'm going to have to try and mount one of the odd little daughter boards I have that combine a 1771 and a 1773 on the same board. they were designed for a TRS-80, but they are self-contained, so it might be possible to make them work with a TI controller. . . Holy cow! I remember seeing these. Are these old boards or fairly recent design? I cannot place them in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 Basically if you have a 3.5" drive connected to your TI, you're wasting half the space on the disk without this upgrade. 80tktidc.zip That sentence of your's has been bugging the hell out of me for days now. I'm going for it, no more waiting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 The daughter boards were an old-time mod for the TRS-80 Model I machines. The ones I have are from the mid-eighties. @ MZAPF Actually, TI disk contolllers used a lot of different chips, Michael. Early CorComp cards use the WD2793; Myarc used the WD 1770 or WD1772 on their floppy controllers (varied by manufacturing date); CorComp, Atronic, and BwG used the WD1773; Percom Data and TI both used the WD1771; and TI used the NEC765 on their unreleased DSDD controller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 All later cards from third party used the more advanced WD1773 controllers from the same family. Ah yes, what I actually wanted to say is that more advanced chips like the WD1773 were used. It's not correct to say that all other cards used the same WD1773. (I wrote that message on a tablet while sitting in a train, so I was actually glad to have somehow completed and submitted that message ... :-) ) I just checked the photograph of my DDCC-1 controller from Myarc, and it shows that the WD1770 was used. It is a bit confusing to see that the WD1770 had more capabilities than the WD1771 (aka FD1771). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 I'm curious, since the CorComp card is already DS/DD, has anyone ever explored an 80 track update for that card? Is it or was it possible? You have to admit, having 720K drives in the TI would be neat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazoo Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) I'm curious, since the CorComp card is already DS/DD, has anyone ever explored an 80 track update for that card? Is it or was it possible? You have to admit, having 720K drives in the TI would be neat. Well, you can have 720k drives on the TI with the Myarc FDC or HFDC. There was some discussion a while back on the old Yahoo TI group about obtaining the source to the Millers Graphics Corcomp FDC eproms so 80 track capability could be added. I volunteered for the task if someone could come up with the source, but alas it was not to be found. BTW, which set of 80 track eproms did you install on your TI FDC? It's neat that people are still doing this upgrade 13 years later. Gazoo Edited February 19, 2014 by Gazoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
am1933 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 People laughed at me back in 95, I went into an office supplies store and seen a load of boxes of five/quarter inch disks priced at 50p for a box of ten(about 80 cents)-Hmmmmmm I thought, I may as well buy them-you never know when they will come in handy. I have used quite a few already and still have about ten boxes of 3M and Maxell left(still sealed). HaHa-who's laughing now. I may go for the 80 track upgrade when I get down to my last box. P.S-is the upgrade switchable between 40 and 80 track? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazoo Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 People laughed at me back in 95, I went into an office supplies store and seen a load of boxes of five/quarter inch disks priced at 50p for a box of ten(about 80 cents)-Hmmmmmm I thought, I may as well buy them-you never know when they will come in handy. I have used quite a few already and still have about ten boxes of 3M and Maxell left(still sealed). HaHa-who's laughing now. I may go for the 80 track upgrade when I get down to my last box. P.S-is the upgrade switchable between 40 and 80 track? There are a number of options. Most people seem happy not reading the docs. Nearly everyone ignores the last paragraph. Docs below. TI DISK CONTROLLER 80 TRACK MODIFICATION This modification for the TI Disk Controller card allows for the use of two 80 track drives. The user may select, via Eprom set, either the pair of drives 1 & 2 or the pair of drives 2 & 3 to be 80 track drives. The 3rd drive not selected in the pair will operate as a 40 track drive so the user can copy his existing 40 track disks to 80 track disks. The usual disclaimer is in effect. I am not responsible if you damage your card doing this modification. Parts included in each kit: Two 2532 eproms, Two 24 pin sockets. The modification is done as follows: *Remove the clamshell from the TI Disk Controller Card. *Remove the two rom chips on the TI Disk Controller Card. They are the only 24 pin chips the size of the two Eproms in your kit. They are labeled U26 and U27. Note the direction that the notch at the end of each chip faces. My best success at this part is to: -Clip the leads of the chips, pulling the chip portion away. -Heat the connections one at a time with a low wattage soldering iron, removing what is left of the chip lead from each hole with a tweezer. -Heat each connection and remove the solder from the hole, either with a solder remover or by blowing through the hole. (Don't blow the solder on anyone if you choose that method!) *Install the sockets with the notch pointing the same way as the original roms. If you don't remember, look at the direction that the largest chip (1771)on the board faces. Solder all connections on the sockets. I've experienced better success with these sockets when they are not quite all the way in when soldering, about the thickness of two sheets of paper above the board. *Install the Eproms in the sockets with the notches pointing in the same direction again. The Eprom labeled U26 is inserted closest to the largest (1771) chip. The U27 Eprom is inserted in the other socket. Be careful not to bend the pins over when inserting the Eproms in their sockets, they could quite easily be broken off. *Put the clamshell back on the card. It's a good idea to mark the card in some way so you know it's been modified. Try out the disk controller card with just a 32k card and firehouse card. That way, if you've made a mistake, you'll cause the least amount of damage. It is recommended that Disk Manager 2 or Disk Manager 2000 be used for formatting 80 track disks, many other disk managers do not allow the options necessary. When formatting 80 track disks, the user should select 80 tracks, double sided, single density. Some other disk managers may or may not work with 80 track drives, be certain not to use any disk manager not coded for 80 track drives, you may lose data on your disks. The 80 track drives will function properly with all the functions like SAVE, LOAD, DELETE, OPEN, CLOSE, ... etc. There are several additional options for the user. If both sets of eproms are owned, the user may mix the sets to put all 3 drives in the same mode. Examples: If the U26 eprom that chooses DSKl as a 40 track drive is matched with the U27 eprom that chooses DSK3 as a 40 track drive, all drives will be 40 track - the original state of the card. The opposite pairing of the eproms would create a card with all drives being 80 track, the U26 eprom that chooses DSKl & 2 as 80 track drives matched with the U27 eprom that chooses DSK2 & 3 as 80 track drives. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 There was some discussion a while back on the old Yahoo TI group about obtaining the source to the Millers Graphics Corcomp FDC eproms so 80 track capability could be added. I volunteered for the task if someone could come up with the source, but alas it was not to be found. BTW, which set of 80 track eproms did you install on your TI FDC? Bummer that the source could not be found, that might have made some people very happy. I got the chips from Dano, but I have no idea where he got them from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazoo Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Bummer that the source could not be found, that might have made some people very happy. I got the chips from Dano, but I have no idea where he got them from. By set, I meant: A. Drives 1 & 2 = 80 track, drive 3 = 40 track. B. Drive 1 = 40 track, drives 2 & 3 = 80 track. C. All 3 drives = 80 track. Sorry if the question wasn't clear. Gazoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 By set, I meant: A. Drives 1 & 2 = 80 track, drive 3 = 40 track. B. Drive 1 = 40 track, drives 2 & 3 = 80 track. C. All 3 drives = 80 track. Sorry if the question wasn't clear. Gazoo Oh, okay, that question I can answer. It's setup as 80/80/40. I never plan to hook up a third drive, so the last one being 40 track only is no big deal to me. If I ever did hook up a third drive, I'd probably want it to be a 5-1/4 just for compatibility with other possible systems, but now days, the chances of running into another TI'er with only a 5-1/4 drive and no other way of transferring files is slim to none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjt Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Yes, this is an upgrade worth doing! Ask if you have any questions. I can help with the eproms if needed. Steve 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Nice work, there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 Yes, this is an upgrade worth doing! I agree! BTW, can you guess my favorite number? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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