Mendon Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 As it quite obvious, the Wii U is having trouble getting 3rd party support, with many companies totally skipping the console with their upcoming games. The latest situation regarding Watch Dog's is a great example: rumors started floating around that the Wii U version was cancelled based on some GameStop release lists not showing a release date; then rumors started floating around that it wasn't cancelled at all and that the GS lists were false; then UBIsoft announced that the Wii U version would be released but with an unspecified date and delay after every other console version is released. Right now, many believe that Watch Dog's on the Wii U will follow the path of Aliens: Colonial Marines, in that it was announced for release, then delayed, then cancelled. I've been sitting here reading the various stories on various web sites concerning the Wii U problems, but I'm not sure what an answer is to 3rd party support. Look at these examples: Batman Origins was released and pre-pays were taken on the Season Pass for DLC. Suddenly WB announces that there will be no DLC for the Wii and is refunding the pre-pays. Call of Duty Ghosts is released but no DLC is being released or planned. Assassins Creed Black Flag is released but no DLC is being released or planned. Splinter Cell Blacklist is released but without the multi-player mode that all other versions got. UBIsoft said they didn't even make back their development costs on ZombieU, a system exclusive and launch title, so a sequel has been rejected. EA reworked Need for Speed Most Wanted for the Wii U and many gave it extremely positive reviews; some said it was the best version for any system. Yet it only sold approx. 20,000 copies and EA said "Enough; we're done". So for me, it sort of poses the question: On the one hand, if Wii U owners won't buy games, why should a company support that platform? On the other hand, if Wii U owners get versions of games that are incomplete and unsupported, why should Wii U owners buy that game or the Wii U version of the game? How can either Wii U owners or software companies win in a situation like this? Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory DG Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Sounds like 3rd Party support for Wii U is done. Nintendo really dropped the ball with this system. They launched it too early trying to get ahead of PS4 and XB1. Naming it "Wii U" was also a huge mistake and confused buyers. Including a tablet "controller" that drove up the cost of the system was another mistake. Not having a compelling Nintendo title to drive Launch Day sales (other than maybe New Super Mario Bros.) was another mistake. They needed to have Mario Galaxy 3 and Zelda ready on Day One. (And also have Mario Kart Wii U and Metroid ready a few months after.) I think it's too late for this system. I predict Nintendo will discontinue it within 2 years. They are probably fast-tracking the next system already. Maybe they will learn from their mistakes next time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atariboy Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) Even if it could be saved, the 3DS turns five in two years. Unless a miracle turnaround happened, even if it started selling in GameCube style numbers, evidence points towards a merging of the two lines. That means replacement fairly early. Short of blockbuster success, they wouldn't drag the 3DS past it's prime just to extend a modestly successful console's lifespan. I just hope we get Zelda U, another surprise or two, and maybe some more HD remasters. Edited February 12, 2014 by Atariboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Here's my take... We all knew there was a serious issue one year ago with the platform, well before the release of the PS4 and Xbox One, and Nintendo did nothing at that time or since to address the issue. Now that the PS4 and Xbox One are selling in the types of numbers that the Wii U can only dream of, Nintendo's situation from a year ago will only continue to get worse. I think the time for positive corrective action has passed. Now Nintendo needs to focus on making the platform profitable and figuring out a way to release first party games on a more regular basis in order to keep the profits flowing. It's irrelevant at this point how far in third the Wii U is going to be or how many units it's going to sell. There's really no recovery scenario. I also echo the sentiments expressed here about the 3DS. That's what's keeping Nintendo going, but the clock is ticking on the platform, particularly as more and more people continue to turn to smartphones and tablets. The thoughts around Nintendo's next generation platform being a combination handheld/console - essentially a merger of the 3DS and Wii U - makes the most sense for what Nintendo can do next. In the mean-time, they need to continue to succeed with the 3DS/2DS and continue to tread water with the Wii U. They can probably start seriously making noise about the next platform in 2015. Any sooner and they risk pissing off those who invested in the Wii U. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimerians Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) I agree. They have another problem: People with multiple systems who also own a Wii U will probably STILL by the Xbox 360\PS3 versions of 3rd party titles. Now that the XBoxOne\PS4 is out its even worse. The problem with the console vs. a handheld like a 3DS is it seems development time is much slower on console meaning we wont see many sequels to Nintendo games on the Wii U. I can only expect maybe one Zelda game on the Wii U (not remakes) and maybe one or two Mario games if they are lucky. Animal Crossing and even Metroid may be longshots but they could still happen. When I look at the Wii U release list this year it looks abysmal. Other than a few games that I want, I can't ever see having a library of more than a dozen games for this system. Its pretty shocking that I'm not seeing anything like a Fire Emblem or any Japanese RPG's in the works. You would think with a tablet they can do some creative stuff but I haven't seen anything out there that says it will happen soon. Edited February 12, 2014 by cimerians Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Its pretty shocking that I'm not seeing anything like a Fire Emblem or any Japanese RPG's in the works. You would think with a tablet they can do some creative stuff but I haven't seen anything out there that says it will happen soon. That's certainly been one of the myriad problems--there's been no really great use of the gamepad screen. We've had a few glimpses here and there of its potential, but other than for off-TV play, there really hasn't been a compelling use for the thing to this point. At this rate, we may never see one, which again, doesn't bode well for attracting non-Nintendo faithful to the platform. On a side note, it was particularly disturbing to me when Nintendo gave up on the 3D of the 3DS and released the 2DS, all but ensuring that there will never be a 3D game where the 3D is critical to the gameplay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atariboy Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) Here's my take... We all knew there was a serious issue one year ago with the platform, well before the release of the PS4 and Xbox One, and Nintendo did nothing at that time or since to address the issue. I don't think that's quite fair. I think they realized it and I think they've taken steps to fight it. It just hasn't had the desired effect which shows that in part, the Wii U's fate was likely sealed by the time trouble become obvious to everyone and that their steps throughout 2013 were ineffectual where the overall picture is concerned. But there are lots of things they've done that we know about over the past 12 months like dropping the price of the system, attractive bundles, etc. Sadly, some of these fixes like Super Mario 3D World just didn't have the effect they were after in righting the ship. But they did try. I also echo the sentiments expressed here about the 3DS. That's what's keeping Nintendo going, but the clock is ticking on the platform, particularly as more and more people continue to turn to smartphones and tablets. The bleeding seems to have stopped after a rough start. The casual handheld market has already left Nintendo. What's here today that's still making it a success based on its own merits are those that want to play console quality games in a handheld with proper controls. The mobile environment isn't nearly as huge of a risk where that group is concerned. They need to protect that and while there are still signs it's not as well off as it should be (Significantly lowering their 3DS projections recently, for instance), there are also lots of positives here like the 3DS being about halfway between the GBA & the DS at this point in its life where Japanese sales are concerned. So I think they've stopped the bleeding and have stabilized this segment. But that's also why they can't string the 3DS along or risk having a gap where it's left to wither on the vine for a year or more as they prepare next generation software. They need a seamless transition replacing the 3DS which enjoys good support until replacement (And a respectable period of halfway decent support afterwards) directly into a next gen system with a steady stream of quality software from the start. Lose this game and their hand just might be forced into 3rd party development. Get it right and it just might save their console side and also strengthen their mobile business at the same time. I can only expect maybe one Zelda game on the Wii U (not remakes) and maybe one or two Mario games if they are lucky. That's pretty much par for the course though. Wii only got one dedicated Zelda adventure, one Zelda port, one side scrolling Mario platformer, and just two 3D Mario platformers. Zelda U is all but officially announced, we already have a Zelda port, we already have a 2D Mario platformer (along with a significant expansion pack), and we already have our 3D Mario platformer. Toss in something relatively cheap and quick like a Super Mario Galaxy HD Collection and it's standing pretty good if not better in these categories than the 100 million + Wii. Animal Crossing and even Metroid may be longshots but they could still happen. Hard to imagine Animal Crossing being a long shot. They sell so well and I can't imagine they take nearly the development resources as something like Zelda U is requiring. More at risk is how innovative it might be if they're rushing to get it out and don't anticipate the Wii U having a long self life. Metroid though certainly isn't a guarantee. Frankly, it's hard to imagine Wii U getting its own 3D Metroid. Our best bet might be something more modest like Metroid Prime HD (Or if they're feeling extremely generous, Metroid Prime Trilogy HD) or perhaps a console Metroid return to 2D at long last. You got to expect that they will try to clone their success with New Super Mario Brothers with some other classic franchises eventually. On a side note, it was particularly disturbing to me when Nintendo gave up on the 3D of the 3DS and released the 2DS, all but ensuring that there will never be a 3D game where the 3D is critical to the gameplay. I think it was a wise move. Games already were mandated to be playable in 2D, a lot of 3DS owners kept it turned off, there were concerns about young children's eyes (which this is directly positioned towards I'd add rather than older gamers), and it got the price down while creating a much more robust system to sell to parents of young children. I think it was Nintendo at its wisest. If only their console business had a similar amount of thought behind it in recent years at correctly reading and gauging what the market wants and delivering. Edited February 12, 2014 by Atariboy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BydoEmpire Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) I agree with Bill - 3rd parties are a lost cause at this point. I don't think there's a winning situation here. They had a very small window at launch, and they missed it. They haven't been able to show a killer app for the touch pad in 2 years, so I'm skeptical one is on the horizon. They do need to get some blockbusters out, but I don't think they have the studios to do it. IMHO their development teams haven't learned to scale with the technology, so they're having a hard time getting the games done. In the mean time, they need to figure out what's next and make that killer. String the Wii U along as best they can and move on. The Wii had an amazing Metroid game, a Paper Mario, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, some 'updated' GameCube ports, Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Animal Crossing, Excite Truck... there was a lot of great 1st party software (and imho some really good 3rd party software as well). Edited February 12, 2014 by BydoEmpire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atariboy Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) They haven't been able to show a killer app for the touch pad in 2 years, so I'm skeptical one is on the horizon. I don't think they ever necessarily needed a killer app for the touch screen (Although one certainly would've been a great help). I know some perceive it as being positioned as Nintendo's main hook this generation and that's Nintendo's fault completely. But I at least have never been able to imagine any sort of scenario where it was little more than a supplement and apparently Nintendo's internal studios aren't much better off in thinking of compelling ways to take advantage of it. But it could be a valuable asset just the same like doubling the buttons and adding shoulder buttons as they moved from the NES to the SNES was. I think they were taking an early step to bring both lines a bit closer together that didn't pan out in the end and Nintendo's poor marketing department focused so much on it that now they're perceived as having not delivered on their promises. They had a very small window at launch, and they missed it. Imagine if they had managed what you described with the Wii. Good marketing and 1st party offerings to back it up. Instead, they've suffered long gestation periods for titles like Super Mario 3D World, didn't launch with anything that was a potential AAA release, and we still have people that think it's just an add-on for their old Wii. Had they had something like that at launch backed with a strong marketing campaign and had been able to deliver 3 or 4 big titles each year, I think Wii U would at least be looking like the new GameCube. Edited February 12, 2014 by Atariboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atariboy Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) I wonder how things would've been different if they had went the Vita route and designed the 3DS for remote play with the Wii U and vice versa. It would've allowed both lines to help drive sales of the other, provided off-screen play for console games, provided for a tv/out option by allowing the upper screen to be streamed to the Wii U for DS/3DS games, etc. Sony is failing where the Vita as a handheld is concerned. But where off screen console gaming is concerned, I think how the Vita interacts with the PS4 is the wiser model. It's a great feature but one that hardly needed to be standard out of the box. Edited February 12, 2014 by Atariboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Dart Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I don't know, guys.... how did the 7800 make that comeback & save itself when faced with superior competition? Oh **** Hey, maybe it'll have some clever homebrew titles in 30 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atariboy Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I don't think it's quite that bad. They've lost the battle since the Wii U will never be a success, but I don't think they've necessarily lost the war where succeeding and being profitable in the home console realm is concerned with their own dedicated hardware. A merging of the ways has a lot of potential I think for their next generation offerings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaperman Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) I'm sure nintendo's having this exact 'how to save nintendo' conversation right now, but theirs is probably going more like this: "3ds is old, we should focus our resources into the 'P-Wii'--a spherical handheld system with six evenly spaced screens, that is played by flicking it around like a baseball. This hardware will be perfect for letting gamers play the kinds of games that they want to play." Edited February 12, 2014 by Reaperman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I think it was Nintendo at its wisest. If only their console business had a similar amount of thought behind it in recent years at correctly reading and gauging what the market wants and delivering. While I'll agree with this, it just makes it all the more pitiful that it took all this time for Nintendo to realize it, rather than axing the 3d idea in the R&D room. Any design that depends on you not playing the system for more than 10-15 minutes to avoid eye strain is one that really shouldn't be encouraged. I'd wonder if the reason companies aren't too keen on doing the DLC on Nintendo systems stems from how much of a pain it apparently is with the way Nintendo handles it which encourages players that want said DLC to skip the Wii U version in favor of the other systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atariboy Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) A new Nintendo Direct is due today. While there won't be a magic fix, hopefully it at least offers a surprise like Wind Waker HD was last year. Edited February 13, 2014 by Atariboy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 A new Nintendo Direct is due today. While there won't be a magic fix, hopefully it at least offers a surprise like Wind Waker HD was last year. Thanks for posting that, I was unaware there was going to be a Nintendo Direct. I'll boot up the Wii U and see if it's up already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atariboy Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I think I read a few hours ago that it would be at 5PM. So still a bit of a wait if I'm right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimerians Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 That's certainly been one of the myriad problems--there's been no really great use of the gamepad screen. Hey Bill, they decided to just turn it off. http://kotaku.com/bold-move-nintendo-1522251610 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atariboy Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) After a disappointing string of 3DS titles, it looks like they showed off Mario Kart 8, Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze, Super Smash Brothers 4, Child of Light, Monolith's new game, and Bayonetta 2 for retail Wii U games (The second half of this thing where the Wii U content was didn't stream well for me). The two interesting Wii U bits for me are NES Remix 2 which will be available in April and features challenges based on the following games and a full Luigi themed adaptation of Super Mario Brothers. Really hope to see this paired with the original and released at retail later this year. Ice Hockey Wario’s Woods Zelda II: The Adventure of Link Super Mario Bros. 2 Super Mario Bros. 2 (Lost Levels) Super Mario Bros. 3 Dr. Mario Kirby’s Adventure Kid Icarus Punch-Out Metroid NES Open Tournament Golf And GBA games coming to the Wii U Virtual Console in April. First titles will be Yoshi's Island (So much for the hope of Super FX titles making their way out this generation), Metroid Fusion, and Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga. Kind of thought we'd at least get another HD remastering today. Edited February 13, 2014 by Atariboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimerians Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Where the hell is the RPG X??? Bayonetta I will hold off for a port, if not I wont miss it. Child of Light I'll get on PS4 if its any good (I don't buy Ubi games on PC) and the three Nintendo games will be overpriced (for my budget) for very long time so the only game on release day I'm buying is Mario Kart. Smash Brothers is a possibility next christmas but I'm definitely holding off on DK since those games are too hard to play in my home by anyone other than me. The GBA games will probably be released once month, slow as molasses and no word yet on changing the games --> console policy. Rrrrrr..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 What to do? Stop supporting companies that make beta testers and market research analysts out of all of us. All the while charging us for the "privilege"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Where the hell is the RPG X??? Um.. They showed it towards the end of the Nintendo Direct feed. It's looking pretty good, actually. http://youtu.be/BdQg43n2OaM?t=35m15s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGameCollector Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Wow the 7 Koopalings will be playable for the first time ever in Mario Kart 8. That should help some hardcore Mario fans really want to play that game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimerians Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Um.. They showed it towards the end of the Nintendo Direct feed. It's looking pretty good, actually. http://youtu.be/BdQg43n2OaM?t=35m15s I meant that it wasnt coming out here till maybe next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendon Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) I watched the Nintendo Direct yesterday and found it to be very unimpressive. Yes, Mario Kart and Donkey Kong look great. But other than those two, they showed nothing to me that hasn't been showed before or was a title I have no interest in. Kirby & Yoshi: nothing new that hasn't been done before. Mario Golf: looks good and I'd get it if it was on the Wii U but not interested in a 3DS version Rusty Baseball: no interest Steel Diver: doesn't interest me in the least X and Bayonetta 2: not interested in either title since I'm not into "huge sword" type of games NES Remix: again, nothing new or exciting. Left to Right Luigi: Yawn Indie games: they were almost identical, all 8bit platformers I really enjoy my Wii U system and have found multiple great games for it. But since 3rd party titles are almost completely non-exsistant on the system, I wold like to see some diversity in Nintendo releases.... something more than another Mario platformer (3 so far since the system released), or another "collect the stars/coins" game like the upcoming Donkey Kong - Kirby - Yoshi games, or another Lego game. How about something different, Nintendo: an Eternal Darkness or Golden Sun or a Pokemon Snap Wii U? Try something other than "the usual". And finally, how about making the Gameboy titles cross platform, i.e. I can play Metroid Fusion on both the Wii u AND 3DS? Edited February 14, 2014 by Mendon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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