KC Munchkin Monster Maze (Atari 2600)

[high voltage]

wow please count me in for a version if still avalable or doing a second run

Edited March 25, 2014 by high voltage

[Mr SQL]

wow please count me in for a version if still avalable or doing a second run

PM sent!

[Serious]

Very interesting looking game.

 

Does this game have a way of keeping score? (I didn't notice a score in the video.)

[Mr SQL]

Very interesting looking game.

 

Does this game have a way of keeping score? (I didn't notice a score in the video.)

Thanks Serious!

 

Excellent question about the score in the video - there is an abstract binary score, comprised of 8 large blocks in KC's home.

 

You can read it anytime and KC is also sent home whenever he is caught and you have a chance to read the score again before it is reset (you only get one life).

 

You can also pause KC right next to the score to take your time reading it as well, and to keep it from immediately vanishing when KC is caught.

[walter_J64bit]

I like to get a copy too!

[Mr SQL]

I like to get a copy too!

PM Sent!

[Mr SQL]

Announcing KC Monster Maze Revision2!
With enhanced graphics and additional artifact colours!

 

Here are some high resolution screenshots to show some of these effects; they are overexposed due to the fast animation but you can see details in them that aren't clear in the demo vid:

 

Enhanced 3D maze effects:

The mazes feature bigger 3d effects with thicker artifact colours.

 

Multicoloured sprites and lighting effect on KC:

Sprites are multicoloured in a way not normally possible on the Atari (not striped!)

 

Lighting effects - KC's shadow faces the same direction even when he changes orientation.

 

Note: The multicoloured sprites and the lighting effects on KC require a Vader or earlier model and will not show up on the Atari Junior or 7800.

 

This version replaces the original, I will have a new demo video up soon!

 

I will be sending the Harmony backup ROM and a .wav recording to everyone who already has the original! you can put the .wav recording on the B side, or just after or in place of the original if you wish

 

[TrekMD]

This is cool. Unfortunately, I have a 2600 Jr so it won't work for me. Looking forward to getting the files, though.

[AtariBuff]

Cool, Mr. SQL. Awaiting Rev. 2

[Mr SQL]

New demo vids for KC Monster Maze Revision2

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3IlUdxMbJo

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aghqgf6qqRw

 

 

[iesposta]

New demo vids for KC Monster Maze Revision2

 

 

 

1st YouTube video does not work. "Video is private."

 

Thanks for an update to this! Much improved with less "ghost dots" that are now gone from the bottom.

 

First time I loaded it, KC was going off screen and it was not scrolling.

Second time it played fine. Maybe I needed to warm up the Supercharger?

 

I'll have to try on A/V modded 2600 on LCD.

 

My Heavy Sixer on a Zenith 32 inch with direct connect RF does not show "artifact colors" or moiré swirls. Just a slight shadow on the red colors, but otherwise it is almost as clear as S-Video. I am sure on my Sony WEGA 27 inch that I got for free it will have an even clearer screen because even with the sharpness off and blur on it is razor sharp.

I'm just saying that people with properly adjusted sets will not see "artifact colors."

[Mr SQL]

1st YouTube video does not work. "Video is private."

 

Thanks for an update to this! Much improved with less "ghost dots" that are now gone from the bottom.

 

First time I loaded it, KC was going off screen and it was not scrolling.

Second time it played fine. Maybe I needed to warm up the Supercharger?

 

I'll have to try on A/V modded 2600 on LCD.

 

My Heavy Sixer on a Zenith 32 inch with direct connect RF does not show "artifact colors" or moiré swirls. Just a slight shadow on the red colors, but otherwise it is almost as clear as S-Video. I am sure on my Sony WEGA 27 inch that I got for free it will have an even clearer screen because even with the sharpness off and blur on it is razor sharp.

I'm just saying that people with properly adjusted sets will not see "artifact colors."

Thanks! The first vid is active now - cool you got them to show up directly in your post instead of the hyperlinks!

 

I see thick artifact walls with the older Atari's, particularly on the second level showing (green with blue borders). On my Jr this level shows as a slight shadow artifact instead of the thicker blue and no shadow effects at all on KC.

 

How does the second level show up on your Zenith? Do you see a darker green shadow on green instead of the thick blue on green?

 

I used all standard settings (colour, tint levels, etc) and a clean RF connection with ferrite for the fist vid - the moire swirls are tougher to get (RF) but the other effects are showing up even on a plasma display with the Vader, though not as strongly as on CRT.

 

Really interesting that there is such a difference in the intensity and variety of these effects!

[RayXambeR]

count on me for one copy! Just let me know when you'll need payment.

[iesposta]

Here is a video [removed] using: Supercharger, Heavy Sixer 2600, Zenith CRT.

This is the R2 version.

The first level doesn't scroll correctly.

In the video it quickly switches to the green level which works just fine from then on.

Good news is the .bin on Harmony works perfect with the AV mod 6-switch on LCD TV.

 

You asked to see what it looked like on the Zenith, so I posted a video, and commented something was wrong - which turned out to be "can't use Genesis controller."

[Mr SQL]

count on me for one copy! Just let me know when you'll need payment.

PM Sent!

[Mr SQL]

Here is a video using: Supercharger, Heavy Sixer 2600, Zenith CRT.

This is the R2 version.

The first level doesn't scroll correctly.

In the video it quickly switches to the green level which works just fine from then on.

Good news is the .bin on Harmony works perfect with the AV mod 6-switch on LCD TV.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3u8vbxy7eew2oby/TL63U-6LcG/Video%20Apr%2006%2C%202%2039%2012%20PM.mov

 

Interesting!

 

I wonder if the RIOT chip in your heavy sixer could be going - does your SuperCharger have the chip mod and can you reproduce this bug on your other Atari with it? KC continuously streams updates to RIOT and SuperCharger RAM; it looks like an update is failing on one side.

 

Watching the vid at 1:10 and 1:14 there are extra blocks on the lower level that should not be on the screen - I am able to reproduce a similar bug like this on my Jr using either the Harmony or the SuperCharger, but only after leaving the game running for 20 hours. I can leave it running for days on my Vader and it never happens.

[Mr SQL]

Here is a video using: Supercharger, Heavy Sixer 2600, Zenith CRT.

This is the R2 version.

The first level doesn't scroll correctly.

In the video it quickly switches to the green level which works just fine from then on.

Good news is the .bin on Harmony works perfect with the AV mod 6-switch on LCD TV.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3u8vbxy7eew2oby/TL63U-6LcG/Video%20Apr%2006%2C%202%2039%2012%20PM.mov

 

iesposta,

I've tracked down the bug you found and it's not a bug. It appears you are using a Sega Genesis controller or a paddle/joystick combination.

 

KC Monster Maze does not support paddles or the Sega Genesis Controller because it uses every last byte of RAM - there are more than 128 bytes inside the VCS!

 

Some more interesting info about Memory Management and KC:

 

KC is larger than 6k! It is the only SuperCharger game larger than 6k via the use of a custom memory doubler written in highly optimised Assembly!

 

Neo used just such a device in the movie Johnny Mnemonic, but it caused synaptic seepage which isn't any fun; you must use a real Atari joystick when playing KC:

 

[iesposta]

 

iesposta,

I've tracked down the bug you found and it's not a bug. It appears you are using a Sega Genesis controller or a paddle/joystick combination.

 

KC Monster Maze does not support paddles or the Sega Genesis Controller because it uses every last byte of RAM - there are more than 128 bytes inside the VCS!

 

Some more interesting info about Memory Management and KC:

 

KC is larger than 6k! It is the only SuperCharger game larger than 6k via the use of a custom memory doubler written in highly optimised Assembly!

 

You are 100% correct. I was using a Sega Genesis controller! (You have installed a camera in your Supercharger code? )

[Mr SQL]

 

You are 100% correct. I was using a Sega Genesis controller! (You have installed a camera in your Supercharger code? )

LOL! I used the extra system RAM reserved for the paddle - the Sega controller registers as a paddle which messes up the game.

[iesposta]

I have been nothing but honest and helpful, yet here you have taken it as constructive criticism, and in another thread you are saying I am making things up and trying to kill this game?!

My reply to, "How does the second level show up on your Zenith? Do you see a darker green shadow on green instead of the thick blue on green?" was to post a video. Did you comment anywhere?

I bought your game.

I bought the box for your game from Germany.

I like playing it on my Supercharger.

Sorry I was the only one to publicly comment, you seem to read them both positively and negatively.

 

My first comment was posted playing on a real 6 switch 2600 with real Atari Paddles. I just reported my experience of trying to get the game to load on the Supercharger for more than an hour, and finally experience gameplay different from your video, the only thing to base the game play on as a demo ROM or the actual ROM was not offered before purchase.

[Mr SQL]

iesposta,
I welcome all feedback but am entitled to give my own developer feedback as well!

 

My post on the critical homebrew thread pointed out that I think you are an excellent developer and indeed I really like your game and the awesome Popcorn arrangement you created - it is on my Harmony cart!

 

Since you are not just a gamer but a developer and technically inclined you have a responsiblity to provide accurate technical information for other gamers and collectors, particularly if you are posting it "so people will know what to expect", as you explained was your motivation.

 

Your claims about needing a Television set that isn't properly adjusted are misleading, but since you are a developer they carry more clout when you leverage them:

 

If you read page 50 of Boisey and Bill's most excellent CoCo book you will see that you are misinformed and perpetuating misleading claims (and more interestingly, that you can actually build a composite mod that allows and even enhances the artifact colourset past what a 4-switch can do!).

 

Likewise for your initial claims the game malfunctions and didn't match the videos I had posted - following these claims by releasing your own videos alongside my videos of the enhanced versions of KC seems a bit much, particularly when you are again (and repeatedly) incorrect with your technical assertions and claims about the game not matching the videos I posted.

 

As an excellent and technically inclined developer (who does awesome stuff no less, like digitised speech in games!) those continued claims backed up with videos to prove it go along way towards letting people know what to expect, but they are wrong and a gamer or gamer/collector may easily be influenced by your technical clout.

 

You've doubtless turned the Harmony cart on with the Sega pad plugged in and watched it malfunction so you are aware it can cause complex asm to go haywire and have the instructions which say quite clearly to use a Joystick - it's a 1982 dream release, there were no sega pads but you claimed to be using retro equipment.

 

You have also left your misleading videos up instead of taking them down or putting a proper label on them. That doesn't seem like you want people to know so as to be helpful, and other technically inclined developers are beginning to comment on your vids that they are in poor taste and you should take them down.

 

The cricital thread on homebrews that suck seems like a fair place to discuss your assertions, and my own feedback as well; In your opening post you had initially pointed out I had ripped people off before with another game with no indication what game that was; perhaps we could discuss that other game on the cricital homebrew thread to explore weather this claim is true or fake too - it's a fair assertion and gamers, collectors and developers have a right to explore it

 

[iesposta]

I understand what you are saying, and I see now how the videos are misleading. They were posted to show what I was seeing.

Now that everything is explained I have removed the videos from YouTube and Dropbox.

 

I had made my first post when I was quite frustrated.

I changed it when I had some perspective, but you had already quoted the end.

Lesson learned not to be so quick to judge.

[Mr SQL]

I understand what you are saying, and I see now how the videos are misleading. They were posted to show what I was seeing.

Now that everything is explained I have removed the videos from YouTube and Dropbox.

 

I had made my first post when I was quite frustrated.

I changed it when I had some perspective, but you had already quoted the end.

Lesson learned not to be so quick to judge.

Very cool, I appreciate it - thank you iesposta

[+stephena]

"The game plays much worse than the video shows with monsters flickering all over the place, and your character going off screen and disappearing ..."

 

You were playing it on your computer instead of a real Television - Stella needs the glide wrappers on windows to better display the game because it is double buffered, but even then it's not going to look as nice as a tube television because KC also takes advantage of both phosphor and artifacting as shown in the video.

 

Stella DOES NOT NEED Glide wrappers. Glide has been obsolete for about 10 years, and you can't even install it on recent systems.

 

We've talked about this before; you need to install OpenGL to get proper double-buffering support, and you can turn on phosphor mode and Blargg effects to simulate a real console and TV. Now granted, it may not look as nice as the real thing, but it bothers me that false information is being spread about Stella. And now I find out that you're recommending users to 'use Z26 for a better emulation experience'. The problem is, if you want double-buffering to work in z26, you STILL NEED to install OpenGL, because it renders in exactly the same way.

 

If you don't want to use Stella or don't recommend users to use it with your ROM, then please state that up front. But don't state that the emulation is inferior for false reasons.

 

In any event, Stella 4.0 will have native Direct3D support, so you won't need to install anything extra. But in the meantime, installing OpenGL isn't a big chore. Simply go to the video card manufacturer website and download it.

[Mr SQL]

 

Stella DOES NOT NEED Glide wrappers. Glide has been obsolete for about 10 years, and you can't even install it on recent systems.

 

We've talked about this before; you need to install OpenGL to get proper double-buffering support

 

... In any event, Stella 4.0 will have native Direct3D support, so you won't need to install anything extra. But in the meantime, installing OpenGL isn't a big chore. Simply go to the video card manufacturer website and download it.

 

Stephena

Stephena,

many people just use the default settings and do not install extra software layers since most games do not require it; you understood this and agreed when we discussed it!

 

I am looking forward to the new release, but we talked about this years ago when I encountered the bug, and the new release simply isn't here yet.

 

It's easy for developers to get focused on supporting the latest platform in favour of the platform with market share, but doing so ignores the user base since that defines it. We see this with web apps breaking in IE8 all the time; I use IE8 for testing because that's the browser with market share. For the same reason I use Stella without whatever software must be added on top to support double buffering

 

Gamers reported better performance with Z26 and indeed I don't see the tile pixels tearing and falling apart with Z26's default install.

 

I had reported another bug during the development of KC Moster Maze where Stella fails to correctly implement the SuperCharger access protocols but didn't see a response from you; I hope you were not offput by my comparison of open source developers to ants in a terranium it's just that there are a lot of you and you can accomplish great things working together in tandem which is fantastic!

 

I think Stella is awesome but I wish you would forego the focus on bells and whistles like the debugger and support for 32-bit processors in favour of enhancing works-like-an-Atari basic functionality because I like to push the classic hardware. You are free to disagree, but please come up with a more rational argument