Jump to content

Photo

Sound list ripper


110 replies to this topic

#26 firepod OFFLINE  

firepod

    Star Raider

  • 75 posts
  • Location:Near Chicago

Posted Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:44 AM

I haven't advanced enough to use this tool yet, but I can see this being very handy thanks Rasmus!!!!



#27 OLD CS1 OFFLINE  

OLD CS1

    River Patroller

  • 4,060 posts
  • Technology Samurai
  • Location:Tallahassee, FL

Posted Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:30 AM

 

Oh dear, that's what I was supposed to have fixed. I have attached a new version to the first post Note that you can also copy/cut/paste multiple rows.

 

Damn it, Rasmus.  I was ready to go to bed.  It is 3:30am and I have to be up by 8am.  Curse your stark efficiency!!

 

(Roughly translated, "thanks a million, mate!")



#28 OLD CS1 OFFLINE  

OLD CS1

    River Patroller

  • 4,060 posts
  • Technology Samurai
  • Location:Tallahassee, FL

Posted Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:56 AM

One last problem (for tonight.)  I am using this to create sound lists.  To save my work I exported to a binary.  When I tried to import it reports no sound list found, though if I open the exported .bin file in a hex editor, the sound list is clearly present.



#29 Asmusr OFFLINE  

Asmusr

    River Patroller

  • Topic Starter
  • 2,494 posts
  • Location:Denmark

Posted Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:59 AM

One last problem (for tonight.)  I am using this to create sound lists.  To save my work I exported to a binary.  When I tried to import it reports no sound list found, though if I open the exported .bin file in a hex editor, the sound list is clearly present.

 

Did you see note 1 from the first post? You need to make sure that the last row has duration 0. If that's not the issue, please send me an example where it goes wrong.



#30 OLD CS1 OFFLINE  

OLD CS1

    River Patroller

  • 4,060 posts
  • Technology Samurai
  • Location:Tallahassee, FL

Posted Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:27 AM

I am certain I have followed directions.  Have a look.  Here is the screen shot of the sound list in the program, and the generated export to binary.

Attached Files



#31 Asmusr OFFLINE  

Asmusr

    River Patroller

  • Topic Starter
  • 2,494 posts
  • Location:Denmark

Posted Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:53 AM

I am certain I have followed directions.  Have a look.  Here is the screen shot of the sound list in the program, and the generated export to binary.

 

Well, the last row also need to contains some sound data. For instance you would usually end your sound list by settings the attenuation to 15 for all generators you have used. Attached is the patched file.

 

I think I will make a better Open/Save function that is robust to such issues.

Attached Files



#32 OLD CS1 OFFLINE  

OLD CS1

    River Patroller

  • 4,060 posts
  • Technology Samurai
  • Location:Tallahassee, FL

Posted Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:00 AM

Got ya.  It is not a big deal to put attenuations of 15s in the list.  Probably a good practice, anyway. Thanks.



#33 OLD CS1 OFFLINE  

OLD CS1

    River Patroller

  • 4,060 posts
  • Technology Samurai
  • Location:Tallahassee, FL

Posted Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:44 PM

Rasums, if you are interested in doing so, I have some suggestions for the editor part of this.  I have used it now to do up several sound lists for my game and it works great.



#34 Asmusr OFFLINE  

Asmusr

    River Patroller

  • Topic Starter
  • 2,494 posts
  • Location:Denmark

Posted Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:03 PM

Rasums, if you are interested in doing so, I have some suggestions for the editor part of this.  I have used it now to do up several sound lists for my game and it works great.

 

Don't know who Rasums is ;) , but I have posted a new version with a few changes. I'm always interested in suggestions.



#35 OLD CS1 OFFLINE  

OLD CS1

    River Patroller

  • 4,060 posts
  • Technology Samurai
  • Location:Tallahassee, FL

Posted Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:15 PM

 

Don't know who Rasums is ;) , but I have posted a new version with a few changes. I'm always interested in suggestions.

 

Rasums, you know, brother to Typeso.  :P  I am about to check it out.  I am working really hard on that one list -- I keep playing the original wav clip simultaneously to make sure timing and tone are accurate.  I have four others banged out and pretty much perfect.  I will play with it some tonight.

 

My first thought would be the ability to copy multiple lines for pasting.  Being able to remove a value (like removing a note or attenuation value) with just the DEL key would be handy.  I do like that paste inserts the row before the currently selected.  I have not checked to see if is possible but I would like to copy from one list and paste into another.  Also, I very much like the vertical orientation versus horizontal, comparable to a MOD tracker versus SID Editor.

 

Okay, long day working today, need dinner and a nap, then I get to play some more.  Thanks, again.

 

A few pointers for anyone using it for editing:

 

1) As mentioned in a previous post, if you enter a value into a field you MUST press ENTER before leaving that field or the value is not saved.

2) Pasting a row inserts it before the currently selected row.

3) You can export multiple lists to the same file (binary or assembler code) by clicking in the boxes to the left of the source file name in the left pane.  Otherwise just the currently highlighted list will be exported.

4) Exporting to a binary file, then importing that binary file in a later session is analogous to saving and loading.

 

EDIT: Another request: selectable channel muting during play-back.


Edited by OLD CS1, Sat Oct 25, 2014 1:04 AM.


#36 Asmusr OFFLINE  

Asmusr

    River Patroller

  • Topic Starter
  • 2,494 posts
  • Location:Denmark

Posted Sat Oct 25, 2014 1:31 AM

I think I have fixed the ENTER problem in the latest update (1.2.1).



#37 OLD CS1 OFFLINE  

OLD CS1

    River Patroller

  • 4,060 posts
  • Technology Samurai
  • Location:Tallahassee, FL

Posted Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:35 PM

If you leave the field without pressing ENTER, the value stays but you must leave the field or press ENTER to get the value stored for play-back.  I do not think that is a problem, it just keeps stumbling me up.  I change a value and then hit play.  What?  Oh, I forgot to "store" the value. hehehehe

 

Is there a way to indicate on the file list when a list has been changed?

 

In terms of the sound lists themselves, is it supposed to work to put >0F attenuation for all generators and a duration of >00?  When I try to play a sound list in Classic99 the generators do not shut off after playing.

 

A few operational things to note: it is possible to copy from the assembly window and paste into an editor (pretty useful.)  Copying a row from the table does not produce data usable for pasting anywhere else but the program itself.  Several rows of one list can be selected, copied, and pasted into another list.

 

A feature I think would be useful is pitch-bending, maybe by pressing "+" or "-" in a tone field (not certain if that is possible since you can either select from a drop-down or enter a value, and a text box may not have hooks for a specific key-press event.)  For some of the effects I am doing I need a real note value in Tone 1, but Tone 2 needs to differ by one value so I have to look up what the tone value for "B3" is, for example, and manually enter ">072" into Tone 2.


Edited by OLD CS1, Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:04 PM.


#38 OLD CS1 OFFLINE  

OLD CS1

    River Patroller

  • 4,060 posts
  • Technology Samurai
  • Location:Tallahassee, FL

Posted Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:53 PM

I am still using XB to test the sound lists but I am not getting playable results.  Can someone look at this and tell me what is going wrong?  The program hangs at 1500 so a BREAK will stop the list with the error tone.

 

Never mind.  It suddenly worked.... *sigh*

 

(As an aside, while testing in XB is easy and can give accurate representation of tone, it seems there is enough going on in the background for durations to be bent horribly.)


Edited by OLD CS1, Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:01 PM.


#39 OLD CS1 OFFLINE  

OLD CS1

    River Patroller

  • 4,060 posts
  • Technology Samurai
  • Location:Tallahassee, FL

Posted Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:18 PM

Okay, after working tonight I have three more requests: copy, paste, and delete columns.

 

Question: is there a maximum length to a sound list?


Edited by OLD CS1, Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:47 PM.


#40 OLD CS1 OFFLINE  

OLD CS1

    River Patroller

  • 4,060 posts
  • Technology Samurai
  • Location:Tallahassee, FL

Posted Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:11 PM

One last tidbit before I go to bed: you can work on separate lists as part of a whole if you delete the last row of all but the last list to remove the "0" duration row.  Select all of the lists you want to be part of the complete long list and export to binary.  Each list will fail validation with a warning asking if you want to exclude that list; select No.  Then when you import the exported file it will be one long list.

 

For example, you have five lists loaded, of which one through three and five are to be part of a bigger list.  Delete the "0" duration row of lists one, two, and three.  Now select lists one, two, three, and five, click on File and Export binary.  I did this to create a 1025-row list from four parts, each part which consisted of identical and different rows.

 

I have attached the complete list on which I am working to this message.  If anyone guesses the game I will post a thread detailing my first game project and its status so far. (I am very excited about it!) :)

Attached Files



#41 Kurt_Woloch OFFLINE  

Kurt_Woloch

    Stargunner

  • 1,224 posts

Posted Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:35 AM

I have attached the complete list on which I am working to this message.  If anyone guesses the game I will post a thread detailing my first game project and its status so far. (I am very excited about it!) :)

 

Phew... well, the melody sure is familiar to me, though I think it was played a bit slower in the version I know. But I don't know which game it belongs to... I think it was the title music of some Amiga game of which I played the C-64 version before, and the C-64 version had some epic music, and then on the Amiga version, it was replaced by this, which made me a bit angry. But I don't know which game it was... maybe later.



#42 OLD CS1 OFFLINE  

OLD CS1

    River Patroller

  • 4,060 posts
  • Technology Samurai
  • Location:Tallahassee, FL

Posted Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:53 AM

 

Phew... well, the melody sure is familiar to me, though I think it was played a bit slower in the version I know. But I don't know which game it belongs to... I think it was the title music of some Amiga game of which I played the C-64 version before, and the C-64 version had some epic music, and then on the Amiga version, it was replaced by this, which made me a bit angry. But I don't know which game it was... maybe later.

 

The Amiga conversion was called the most arcade-accurate of all of the conversions.  The tempo and tune itself is actually more true to the Commodore 64 rendition.  I finally extracted the tune from the arcade (a long play video, actually) and the tempo is MUCH slower, so I will have to make adjustments as well as remove a number of redundant notes from Tone 1.  And, you are correct: the Commodore 64 music is quite epic, and also included sampled "noise" played back on the SID.



#43 OLD CS1 OFFLINE  

OLD CS1

    River Patroller

  • 4,060 posts
  • Technology Samurai
  • Location:Tallahassee, FL

Posted Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:16 PM

Rasmus, more demands! ;)

 

1) ability to paste into the assembly window

 or

2) some kind-of search and replace

 

Use scenario: I need to change all >02 durations to >05, and all >03 durations to >06.  And there area lot of them.

 

3) ability to exclude the * tone,tone,tone,noise comments in the Assembly window.

 

This is not critical by any means, it would just make it easier for me to use the BYTE statements in an XB program.  What I do is paste the assembly listing into Notepad, replace BYTE with DATA, remove the * comments.  Then in Classic99 I start NUM 2000,10 and the hit Paste XB.  I guess I could use a Perl or Awk script, too.



#44 OLD CS1 OFFLINE  

OLD CS1

    River Patroller

  • 4,060 posts
  • Technology Samurai
  • Location:Tallahassee, FL

Posted Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:32 PM

@Kurt: This one should sound more like what you recall. Attached File  sound_list_theme_arcade.bin   1.27KB   10 downloads

This is almost beat-for-beat identical to the arcade game.  I cannot get it any closer due to the 60Hz resolution of the ISR sound list player.  It is much smaller as the original arcade played this same part over and over.

 

BTW, in regard to making a larger list from parts you can also abstract the equivalent of "patterns" in a regular tracker, with the exception that there is no pattern reference.  What you can do is export the individual parts as .bin pattern files, then import them in the order you need.  This sound list is built from three files: thus three patterns, the third of which repeats once for a total of four playing patterns.

 

This is the original arcade game sound clip for comparison. Attached File  theme_arcade.mp3   186.76KB   26 downloads

FWIW, the sound chip is an AY8910, or AY-3-8910, which is somewhat similar to the TMS9919. Well, except the 8910 has an ADSR envelope and greater range (the real song has its bass line one octave lower than what I can get from the TI.)


Edited by OLD CS1, Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:11 PM.


#45 Kurt_Woloch OFFLINE  

Kurt_Woloch

    Stargunner

  • 1,224 posts

Posted Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:36 PM

Now that's interesting... judging from the arcade music, it must be an earlier arcade game than I thought... maybe 1985 or earlier, because by 1986 nearly all companies were using FM chips for music. I'm pretty sure I've never heard that music in the arcade, though, so I must have played the C-64 and Amiga versions extensively, but not the arcade original. Or it was so loud in the arcade that I didn't hear the background music. The music sounds like the game could be by Sega or Konami. I'm pretty sure I recall the Amiga version of the music, not the arcade version. But I still can't remember which game it was. Anyway, I'm pretty sure I would like playing it on the TI-99 judging from how well I know the music, which means I must have played at least the Amiga version of it (and probably also the C-64 version) several times.



#46 OLD CS1 OFFLINE  

OLD CS1

    River Patroller

  • 4,060 posts
  • Technology Samurai
  • Location:Tallahassee, FL

Posted Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:35 PM

Now that's interesting... judging from the arcade music, it must be an earlier arcade game than I thought... maybe 1985 or earlier, because by 1986 nearly all companies were using FM chips for music. I'm pretty sure I've never heard that music in the arcade, though, so I must have played the C-64 and Amiga versions extensively, but not the arcade original. Or it was so loud in the arcade that I didn't hear the background music. The music sounds like the game could be by Sega or Konami. I'm pretty sure I recall the Amiga version of the music, not the arcade version. But I still can't remember which game it was. Anyway, I'm pretty sure I would like playing it on the TI-99 judging from how well I know the music, which means I must have played at least the Amiga version of it (and probably also the C-64 version) several times.

 

You are right on.  It is from 1986, and you have probably played it on the Amiga, Commodore 64, or both.  It was pretty much a staple game!  Anyway, I do not intend to hijack the thread and I plan to put everything together soon in my own thread.  If you happen to figure it out before then, let me know :)



#47 Kurt_Woloch OFFLINE  

Kurt_Woloch

    Stargunner

  • 1,224 posts

Posted Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:23 AM

OK, I think I found it, although I'm a bit unsure... also about what I said earlier. It's either Arkanoid or Arkanoid 2, but I haven't found a video of the C-64 or Amiga version playing this music. Instead, I found this video of the ZX Spectrum version of Arkanoid which seems to have your tune as the title music...

 

 

And here is the PC version of Arkanoid 2 playing the same tune (I've played it on that system for a long time, but on a PC without a soundcard!)

 

 

Then there's the Amstrad CPC version of Arkanoid 2 which also has that tune as the title music...

 

 

On the other hand, the CPC version of Arkanoid also has that tune as part of the introduction, which you can hear in the following video at 6:47:

 

 

However, I couldn't find a video of the Arcade or Amiga version that would include this tune... or maybe it's used as a high-score entry tune in those version or even in another game. However, I'm pretty sure I heard that tune on the Amiga, just can't remember on which occasion... but I did play Arkanoid 2 for a long time on the Amiga. I wouldn't say it's the best rendition of the game, however... that you could say of the original Arkanoid, but I don't know where your music would appear in the Amiga version of that.

 

Anyway... my guess is it's either Arkanoid or Arkanoid 2.



#48 OLD CS1 OFFLINE  

OLD CS1

    River Patroller

  • 4,060 posts
  • Technology Samurai
  • Location:Tallahassee, FL

Posted Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:03 AM

You got it.  I downloaded a long-play of the arcade from YouTube to observe the game logic and some of the physics.  There is also a good break-down of the game I found, and I have the Commodore 64, MSX, and NES versions in emulation (the C64 and NES on real iron, too.)  I am putting a good bit of effort into this.  It seems easy, but the collision detection is going to be a bear as the sprites are always over background and most game pieces are multiple sprites to start with.  I am working to make this as arcade-real as possible.  More later.



#49 Asmusr OFFLINE  

Asmusr

    River Patroller

  • Topic Starter
  • 2,494 posts
  • Location:Denmark

Posted Mon Nov 3, 2014 3:28 PM

Sound lists were played to slowly - every row had the duration increased by one.  New version in post #1.



#50 OLD CS1 OFFLINE  

OLD CS1

    River Patroller

  • 4,060 posts
  • Technology Samurai
  • Location:Tallahassee, FL

Posted Mon Dec 1, 2014 7:54 AM

Since upgrading to Java 7 R71, I have found that the last row of a sound list will get stuck playing continuously and I am unable to stop it or start another sound.  Oddly, it seems to affect only some imported lists and not others, but repeatedly.






0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users