Mystery Jag Project #1 ?

[Austin]

 

I'd like to see some new Jag games come out that I would like to buy and play.

 

Based on one of your posts, I think it's clear that you would enjoy some simplistic arcade classics ported to the system. That's totally reasonable. For others though (and it seems like some perceived this is your perspective as well--if it's not, then I apologize), it's clear that in order for them to have interest in and/or buy a new Jaguar release, it would have to be on-par with games released when the Jaguar was relevant.

 

The problem with this later train of thought is that, asides from unreleased, near-complete Atari-era games Carl Forhan might still have up his sleeve (not many these days, I am guessing), and perhaps an undiscovered prototype or two that's laying on a hard drive somewhere, you're not going get what you would like to see. It's just completely unrealistic. Unlike games from platforms like the 2600 and 7800, Jaguar games from when Atari was still in business often required full development teams to put together, and even then many of the releases weren't all that polished.

 

Those types of games some infer to and wish for is an unlikely proposition in this day and age. And don't get me wrong--I'm sure all of us would "like" to see games of an Atari-era caliber released, maybe something with polygons, something more complicated. I think the difference is that, these days, 20 years after the Jag's release, some of us are a little more realistic about the proposition than others. Anyone even remotely willing to take on that challenge with any form of seriousness would need a very, very good reason for doing so. It's a lot of time to invest in something they will get little out of, especially for those (i.e., a large chunk of Jag developers) that would have to juggle the project alongside their wives, kids, full-time jobs and personal lives, to complete a type of game that originally required hefty development teams working full-time back in the day. Anyone that decided to actually go through with this would be wiser to take their project to a different platform, one with a larger audience, with greater capabilities, better development tools, and a far less rabid fanbase that will be much more appreciative of their work (i.e., the Sega Dreamcast).

 

This reasoning above is also likely why many get annoyed with asinine posts from stubborn old-timers or ignorant posts from innocent newbies, wishing "someone would port Quake to the Jaguar", or that "someone should make a full polygonal platformer like Tomb Raider and push the 'limits' of the system". It's just not going to happen from the ground-up. Unlike the 2600 or 7800 where someone can pitch an idea that may have "pushed" the systems back in the day, and come back with an impressive, fully working alpha a week later, it's completely unrealistic to expect that sort of thing with the Jaguar. Perhaps things would become a little more constructive (and the feedback from current developers would become a little more receptive) if fans began requesting projects that are a little more manageable for groups of developers that more or less do this for fun in their minimal amount of available spare time.

 

Perhaps Sh3-rg's posts could have come across a little less abrasive. However, I think the guys at Reboot (and other Jag developers) have every right to take it a little personal. All things considered, whether you are into their style of games or not, they are among a small group of individuals that regularly release quality content for the Jaguar that's actually worth playing. That in itself is worth its weight in gold, if you ask me.

[NinSEGA]

I'd like to see this game ported to the Jaguar-

 

 

 

I'm sure System 3 would be lenient in terms of licensing it out.

[Brian R.]

Austin - I hear, understand and appreciate what you said.

[AtariORdead]

The instant jumping on of anyone even daring to mention that they are not interested in Hombrew really needs to top on this site. Not everyone wants to play them.

 

Truth is that all he said was he wished more games like Battlesphere would be released and to him personally that kind of game would be the only thing he would be interested in buying.

 

talk about an overreaction to an innocent comment.

Edited April 13, 2014 by AtariORdead

[Brian R.]

I'd like to see this game ported to the Jaguar-

 

 

 

I'm sure System 3 would be lenient in terms of licensing it out.

 

That looks interesting. That's one I'd consider picking up for the Jag, if it was done.

 

Not every game or homebrew has to be like Battlesphere to be worthwhile to me. I know they did start under Atari, and probably had more resources than a homebrew developer would have today (I say probably because while I suspect that to be true, I don't know to say so definitively.)

Edited April 14, 2014 by Brian R.

[Brian R.]

The instant jumping on of anyone even daring to mention that they are not interested in Hombrew really needs to top on this site. Not everyone wants to play them.

 

Truth is that all he said was he wished more games like Battlesphere would be released and to him personally that kind of game would be the only thing he would be interested in buying.

 

talk about an overreaction to an innocent comment.

 

That would be nice. I'm not holding my breath, given how easily some of them blow their tops.

 

Say you don't like their game - that it's not for you - and you get called "ignorant" and told to shove things up your rectum.

[+Gemintronic]

The instant jumping on of anyone even daring to mention that they are not interested in Hombrew really needs to top on this site. Not everyone wants to play them.

 

Truth is that all he said was he wished more games like Battlesphere would be released and to him personally that kind of game would be the only thing he would be interested in buying.

 

talk about an overreaction to an innocent comment.

 

Good luck in Electronic Arts making new Jaguar titles.

 

Aside from a few jabs and pokes I think everyone has been well reasoned in the end. No worries.

[NinSEGA]

You guys have to understand something. The guys at Reboot are doing this as more of a hobby and to see what they can do with the Jaguar hardware, not really to make a profit on it. I'm sure they already have full-time steady jobs that assist with paying for their families/food/clothing/etc. Otherwise they wouldn't be selling their games for just a little over cost of materials. CyranoJ brought up a good point in another thread: "When it becomes a job, it requires a salary."

 

On the other side, I can sympathize with the guys frustrated at these releases, though. I mean you have programmers with the ability to do good, but end up producing seemingly sub-par stuff. I brought up "Why not just port existing games like Putty Squad?", but then I guess that just leads to arguments because everyone wants their own 'insert favorite game' ported first. I mean, The Removers did port Another World, but who asked for that outside of a select few? It did bring up interest in the game and in the original programmer Eric Chahi, and no doubt brought in new fans. So I do feel that porting existing games is a better approach.

[+Gemintronic]

Seemingly sub-par to whom? What game? What aspect?

[sh3-rg]

You can't even be bothered to play a freely available game but think it's fine to criticise. Why go out of your way to be a wanker? That's the kind of attitude I find pathetic. You chose one game, Downfall, and compared it to a VCS game that it only resembles in passing (as it states on the website and in-game, it's inspired by Herb64's Man Goes Down). If you're big into VCS you should know that.

Remember what you said:

I don't make retro games, I play retro games. I grew up with Atari - in the 80s

But apparently not for the ossum 64-bit Atari Jaguar, that'd be just stupid, right? Who would want to play a fun, enjoyable, 60fps retro game on such a beastly machine? The fact is you have little idea what the Jaguar is actually capable of and which homebrews make use of the Jaguar's interesting capabilities, you just know they're all unworthy of you and the console.

That would be nice. I'm not holding my breath, given how easily some of them blow their tops.

Say you don't like their game - that it's not for you - and you get called "ignorant" and told to shove things up your rectum.

Go read what you wrote and what I wrote in order. I didn't "blow my top" because you criticised Downfall, I took offence to you basically saying every single Jaguar homebrew ever is not worth playing when you said words to the effect of "there's been nothing since Battlesphere". Belittling the efforts of many people over many years. That's what's pathetic in your sweeping statements. But you know, why remember things how they happened when you can pretend it's all these touchy devs who don't like your comments on their games you haven't played., right? smfh

[Brian R.]

 

Good luck in Electronic Arts making new Jaguar titles.

 

Aside from a few jabs and pokes I think everyone has been well reasoned in the end. No worries.

 

Not everyone. Not even close.

[NinSEGA]

Seemingly sub-par to whom? What game? What aspect?

That's the point. It's an opinion. There is no real grounds or basis for it. Me personally, I appreciate the efforts homebrew coders put into their games. I wouldn't necessarily buy every single one released and I certainly find a few to be too silly for my tastes (especially the MyLittlePony-based ones... *shudders*), but you have to give them credit for actually doing something.

 

I don't have any experience coding except for the mandatory stuff I had to do in high school and college, but if I ever get the chance to, I'd be interested in programming for these dead consoles. Homebrewers are my inspiration for that.

[sh3-rg]

You guys have to understand something. The guys at Reboot are doing this as more of a hobby and to see what they can do with the Jaguar hardware, not really to make a profit on it. I'm sure they already have full-time steady jobs that assist with paying for their families/food/clothing/etc. Otherwise they wouldn't be selling their games for just a little over cost of materials. CyranoJ brought up a good point in another thread: "When it becomes a job, it requires a salary."

 

We don't make a profit we we have targets we aim for. Our original releases paid for the materials and bought CJ a Jaguar CD. Further releases allowed us to purchase a small batch of carts.

 

We don't take any money out for ourselves, but we do accumulate cash in our aim to get to the point where we have larger buying power and can put a few other plans into place. At that point, if we continue to make them, our releases will cost less.

 

 

Not everyone. Not even close.

 

It's good that you can admit to that.

[+Gemintronic]

That's the point. It's an opinion. There is no real grounds or basis for it. Me personally, I appreciate the efforts homebrew coders put into their games. I wouldn't necessarily buy every single one released and I certainly find a few to be too silly for my tastes (especially the MyLittlePony-based ones... *shudders*), but you have to give them credit for actually doing something.

 

I don't have any experience coding except for the mandatory stuff I had to do in high school and college, but if I ever get the chance to, I'd be interested in programming for these dead consoles. Homebrewers are my inspiration for that.

 

Nah. The point is, when you must be critical of something to be respectful. Blanket statements show that you cannot be bothered to properly discuss your viewpoint - so why should the rest of the world take it seriously?

 

Just sayin' Not mad

[Brian R.]

If I see a "freely available game" that appeals to me, yes I'll try it out. If it doesn't appear to appeal to me, there's no motivation to download it.

 

I'm not being a "wanker." That's just you being insulting and juvenile. It's a "you don't like my game so I'm mad" perspective that I find pathetic.

 

Some of what I've seen look more like exercises in programming rather than polished games - games made on the Jaguar just for the sake of being on the Jaguar. Again, that's just to me, my opinion, my perspective.

 

I never said every single Jaguar homebrew game is unworthy of me playing. I have not seen every single Jaguar homebrew game. I'm sure there are some I'm not even aware of. I said the ones I have seen have not appealed to me. So I did not belittle the efforts of many. You are making sweeping assumptions and reading things into my words that are not there.

 

I won't say all people making games on Jaguar are overly sensitive. I will say you are.

 

I don't like your games, you don't care what I think - so there's nothing really left to say.

 

You can't even be bothered to play a freely available game but think it's fine to criticise. Why go out of your way to be a wanker? That's the kind of attitude I find pathetic. You chose one game, Downfall, and compared it to a VCS game that it only resembles in passing (as it states on the website and in-game, it's inspired by Herb64's Man Goes Down). If you're big into VCS you should know that.

Remember what you said:

But apparently not for the ossum 64-bit Atari Jaguar, that'd be just stupid, right? Who would want to play a fun, enjoyable, 60fps retro game on such a beastly machine? The fact is you have little idea what the Jaguar is actually capable of and which homebrews make use of the Jaguar's interesting capabilities, you just know they're all unworthy of you and the console.

Go read what you wrote and what I wrote in order. I didn't "blow my top" because you criticised Downfall, I took offence to you basically saying every single Jaguar homebrew ever is not worth playing when you said words to the effect of "there's been nothing since Battlesphere". Belittling the efforts of many people over many years. That's what's pathetic in your sweeping statements. But you know, why remember things how they happened when you can pretend it's all these touchy devs who don't like your comments on their games you haven't played., right? smfh

[Brian R.]

 

It's good that you can admit to that.

 

 

I just knew you'd do that, "wanker." Nice job hitting the softball.

[sh3-rg]

That's just you being insulting and juvenile. It's a "you don't like my game so I'm mad" perspective that I find pathetic.

No that's me being equally insulting as you deriding every single Jaguar homebrew ever, seemingly never having played a single one.

 

It's a "you don't like my game so I'm mad" perspective that I find pathetic.

No, it's a "I CBA playing your game but I'm going to say it's worthless" perspective that I find pathetic.

 

Some of what I've seen look more like exercises in programming rather than polished games - games made on the Jaguar just for the sake of being on the Jaguar. Again, that's just to me, my opinion, my perspective.

And if you took the time to read about them you'd find that some of them actually are indeed that.

 

I never said every single Jaguar homebrew game is unworthy of me playing. I have not seen every single Jaguar homebrew game. I'm sure there are some I'm not even aware of. I said the ones I have seen have not appealed to me.

You said there's been nothing since BS... all homebrews came after BS. The one implies the other.

 

So I did not belittle the efforts of many. You are making sweeping assumptions and reading things into my words that are not there.

Yes you did. You belittled the efforts of every single Jaguar homebrewer ever. Yours was the sweeping statement.

 

I don't like your games, you don't care what I think - so there's nothing really left to say.

Games you haven't even played... pfft.

[Brian R.]

You still don't get it. You just can't read nor have the ability to comprehend.

 

I have not derided every single Jaguar homebrew ever. I have not seen every single Jaguar homebrew. AGAIN, what I said is - the ones I HAVE SEEN do not appeal TO ME.

 

You don't know what I've played or not played.

 

No that's me being equally insulting as you deriding every single Jaguar homebrew ever, seemingly never having played a single one.


No, it's a "I CBA playing your game but I'm going to say it's worthless" perspective that I find pathetic.


And if you took the time to read about them you'd find that some of them actually are indeed that.


You said there's been nothing since BS... all homebrews came after BS. The one implies the other.


Yes you did. You belittled the efforts of every single Jaguar homebrewer ever. Yours was the sweeping statement.


Games you haven't even played... pfft.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Brian R.

[sh3-rg]

The so-called homebrew games and what not that have been released have not impressed me. I haven't seen anything come out for the Jag since BS that I've wanted to buy.

[NinSEGA]

This is going to be an endless back and forth. How about we just go back to the original topic of the thread, which I'm pretty sure was about a mysterious Atari Jaguar project that Songbird Productions has listed on their site, hmm?

 

I think it's just a placeholder for any potential project that Songbird comes across. I don't think there is anything really in the works at the moment. I do hope that I'm wrong, though.

[Brian R.]

 

The so-called homebrew games and what not that have been released have not impressed me. I haven't seen anything come out for the Jag since BS that I've wanted to buy.

 

 

What I have seen. Jeez.

 

And what I said BEFORE that:

 

Most of the recent stuff I've seen put out appears to have been done on the Jaguar just for the sake of being done on the Jaguar...

 

So the statement you cherry picked out came after that.

 

You're right Ninsega, it can pointlessly continue. I'd like to be done with it. This has gone on way beyond anything I would have ever wanted. But I don't appreciate being misrepresented and misinterpreted.

 

Unless I'm wrongly called out again, I'm done here. I will let this thread go back to its original purpose - not that I wanted or intended to derail it.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Brian R.

[AtariORdead]

Why is this even an argument. Are we really saying that people are not allowed to say they are not interested in Homebrew games.

 

I also have no interest in Homebrew games currently on the Jag, that may change in the future, vut as of now there is notjing anyone is doing that I find interesting. I don't see the problem with saying that.

 

I have had a friend show me the likes of Blackout, Downfall, etc and they did nothing for me, I can appreciate the fact that people have sat down to create them but that is it.

[+Gemintronic]

When you have actual developers reading the topic you can expect a response. How constructive that response is depends on how well you qualify your critical statements.

[NeoGeoNinja]

[racerx]

I'd like for a new Jaguar game actually worth buying to be released.

 

You know, it's not what you're saying, it's how you're saying it. This was your first comment, no other explanation, no embellishment, no clarification, no quantification.

 

Unless you have Asperger's or something, a statement like this just makes you sound like a douche right off the bat. Are you actually surprised that current coders would be rubbed the wrong way by this? You were either trying to stir things up or there's simply something wrong with your interpersonal skills.

Edited April 14, 2014 by racerx