Wyluli Wolf Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I recently acquired a Commodore 64 along with a 1541 disk drive and cassette drive. The 1541 drive will load about 2 programs from 2 different floppy disks and refuses to read other disks. When I try to load most floppy's it will try to read the disk, make a clicking noise and the red light will come on. I'm hoping it's just out of alignment and plan to try and align the drive when I get a chance. I bought an alignment disk off of eBay. The cassette drive seems to work ok. I only have one cassette to test with (frogger). Great music in that game! I also picked up the game Radar Rat Race on cartridge and tried it out. It works perfectly. The Commodore 64 itself seems to be in great shape but I noticed the screen is a bit fuzzy on channel 3. For kicks I switched it to Channel 4 and it comes in much better. Unfortunately, while using the system it will sometimes suddenly get a scrambled screen with multiple colors (not the blue C64 load screen). I'm not sure if it is interference of some sort? It's connected to an old CRT television set. I'm also curious as to why channel 3 would be fuzzy but not channel 4. More interference? I am using one of those coaxial adapter connectors and not a "box" to connect to the TV. I'm really hoping there is nothing wrong with the system itself. Any advice or thoughts from you C64 experts out there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 RF interference is always iffy. I would suggest to invest in a composite video cable instead. That is something that I consider a requirement personally One thing that is concerning is the random colored screen while the machine is in use. That could be a lot of things. If you are ok with opening the system, I would suggest do to that and push down on the socketed chips (if they are socketed) as they tend to lift over time. Could be a bad connection somewhere. While you are in there you can use some compressed air and clean it out for good measure. I have seen things like this happen with bad power supplies as well, so it could be a failing supply that is the cause of the issue. The next time it happens, take a picture and attach it to this post. Seeing it will give us a better idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimerians Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 There are probably many more people techinical with the 64 than me but having had one for 30 years I can only say this from my experience. - Yes it's interference and try using a gold connector whenever you can. - The drive sounds like it's out of alignment. You can try servicing it or get another. If you can try and fork over some money on these two things: - 1541 Ultimate II http://www.1541ultimate.net/content/index.php - An S-Video cable or equivalent like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Commodore-Video-TV-Monitor-Cable-S-Video-Audio-6ft-C-64-C-128-/331125465529?pt=US_Vintage_Computing_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d189da1b9 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiv Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Note: Make sure your C64 will do S-video.. It is the best quality, but some of the early C64s only have the 5-pin DIN (same the Vic-20 used) that supports composite (still much better then RF), but not s-video. If your C64 just has the 5-pin DIN, you need a different cable than what was mentioned to go from 5-pin to composite.. Just an FYI.. desiv 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyluli Wolf Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 I'll definitely invest in either the composite cables or the S-video cable. I have to make sure the old TV has an S-video output. I'd also have to see if I have the 5 pin or 8 pin C64. I wonder if I can use the connector from my Sega Genesis to test it out in the meantime.... If the scrambled screen pops up while using composite I'll snap a picture of the screen and upload. I can also take the case apart and check the connections and clean with canned air. Couldn't hurt. The 1541 Ultimate II is awesome but I can't really justify the price. I was thinking of going the route of the uIEC for $50 - $60 instead. Thanks for the advice and I'll post back with the results! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I have this, and it is fantastic: http://www.sd2iec.co.uk/id14.html Team it up with an Epyx fast load cartridge and you'll be in heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 If you would be sitting with a very old C64 that has the 5-pin video, you probably won't have any problems finding a taker that will swap with you for a slightly newer C64 and perhaps throw in a peripheral or two, or even money. The very early ones are rather uncommon, to the point that it would be a surprise to find one of those IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) Mine is an old 5-pin model. Surprised it is so rare? Anyhow, You can use a 5-pin DIN cable with either the 5 or 8 pin C64. You will only get composite with the cable (and audio of course). The 8-pin cable gives you chroma/luma, but you need a display (ie: Commodore monitor) to take advantage of that anyway. In short, if you are hooking it to a TV and need a cable, a 5-pin DIN cable will do the trick. Just make sure it is labeled to work with the C64. Edited March 13, 2014 by eightbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickR Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I have this, and it is fantastic: http://www.sd2iec.co.uk/id14.html Team it up with an Epyx fast load cartridge and you'll be in heaven. Same one here, but I use SJLOAD as per this blog: http://ilesj.wordpress.com/2010/10/04/tips-for-using-sd2iec/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yell0w_lantern Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 (edited) I'll definitely invest in either the composite cables or the S-video cable. I have to make sure the old TV has an S-video output. I'd also have to see if I have the 5 pin or 8 pin C64. I wonder if I can use the connector from my Sega Genesis to test it out in the meantime.... If the scrambled screen pops up while using composite I'll snap a picture of the screen and upload. I can also take the case apart and check the connections and clean with canned air. Couldn't hurt. The 1541 Ultimate II is awesome but I can't really justify the price. I was thinking of going the route of the uIEC for $50 - $60 instead. Thanks for the advice and I'll post back with the results! The Genesis connector does not work. A 5-pin C64 cable will work on Atari 8-bit and TI-99/4A computers! If all you have is a 5 pin then try to find an original Commodore Monitor cable because the Din-plug end is molded and will not fall apart unlike the newly made ones. You can easily make your own from Walmart RCA cables and a Din plug from Mouser or Digikey. By the way, S-video connectors are just 4-pin mini-dins. http://www.c64-wiki.com/index.php/A/V_jack http://ilesj.wordpress.com/2012/11/17/c64-s-video-cable-the-easy-way-and-with-no-scart/ Consider JiffyDos chip replacement or EZ Flash 3 with a JiffyDOS image. [EDIT] The episodes of funny color may be a dying PLA chip. The PLA is notoriously failure prone and is often a good bet for replacement if you don't know whick chip died on a C64. Eslapion over on the Lemon64 forum was selling off the last of his EPROM PLA replacements but may have a few left. Retro Donald sells RealPLA and Super PLA v3 which are good replacements but a bit pricier. http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.sinchai.de/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dsinchai%2Bshop%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DSrJ%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26channel%3Dsb Try to avoid using a Genesis controller as it may fry your CIA chips because the Genesis controllers send voltage back over the controller lines which are read by the CIA. Also, try to avoid touching the pins of the control ports because a static discharge can also fry the CIA. Ray Carlsen is the man for C-64 repair. http://personalpages.tds.net/~rcarlsen/ Edited March 14, 2014 by yell0w_lantern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 (edited) This will work: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Color-Composite-Video-A-V-Monitor-Cable-DIN-to-RCA-for-Atari-800-XL-XE-6-New-/130888382784?pt=US_Video_Game_Cables_Adapters&hash=item1e798e3940 I purchased a few of them, and they aren't cheaply made like the rest. They are NOS for Atari 800XL (and other) computers, but work just fine on everything else using a five pin DIN, including the C64 I know as I am currently using the same one for the C64 and Vic. Edited March 14, 2014 by eightbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyluli Wolf Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 Cool, thanks guys. I'll figure out which cable I can use tonight (S-video or component). Thanks for the advice on the Sega controllers as well. I've been using an old Atari CX-40 joystick. I also have some bat style Wico sticks and an Epyx 500J. Hopefully all those are ok to use. Once I get the proper cable and get it all hooked up again I'll test it out and see if the scrambled screen issue returns. If it does, I guess we are looking at a failing component. Thanks for the info on the PLA chip. I don't mind trying to do repairs on my own. I did replace a cap kit in an old arcade machine awhile back (Scared the crapnuggets out of me having to discharge that monitor, thought I was gonna kill myself for sure!). It's been awhile so I'll probably do a little solder practice on an old pcb to polish up the skills again... just in case they are needed. Not having much luck on eBay lately. Both the commodore and sega genesis I received appear to be faulty Bummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yell0w_lantern Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Check google regarding what your Sega problem is because some of the problems are easy like resoldering the power receptacle on a Genesis Model 2. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyluli Wolf Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 Guess I have the 5-pin. Posting a pic: Thinking this cable will work: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Commodore-Video-Monitor-Cable-Composite-Video-Audio-6ft-VIC-20-C-64-5pin-/331125982355?pt=US_Vintage_Computing_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d18a58493 Guess I'll get that ordered and should have it in about a month Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyluli Wolf Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 Check google regarding what your Sega problem is because some of the problems are easy like resoldering the power receptacle on a Genesis Model 2. I've googled the issue to death. The only thing I see is what you mentioned about the re-soldering. I'm not seeing anything about the model 1 system. I'm going to try replacing the power receptacle and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyluli Wolf Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 Well after much cursing I finally have the "alignment disk" I won off eBay working. Here are the results: Not sure what to think now.... According to the included instructions this should be closely aligned and not be having issues. I suppose it's possible that I just have a crap load of bad disks that are unreadable...?? *sigh... It would be nice if something could be easy for once! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yell0w_lantern Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 (edited) For the model 1 definitely check all the capacitors and test the power regulator. Make sure your power adapter is putting out the right voltage. There are some good youtube videos for fixing the Genesis to at least give you ideas. https://www.google.com/search?q=genesis+model+1+repair&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb Edited March 15, 2014 by yell0w_lantern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyluli Wolf Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 I have some photo's of what the Commodore is doing when the screen suddenly goes "wonky" on me. This happens even if nothing else is plugged into the C64 (no disk drive attached, no controller, etc). I've not taken it apart yet but plan to do so to see if anything obvious shows (loose connections, blown capacitors etc). Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyluli Wolf Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 Opened her up. She did NOT want to come apart, back side hung on for dear life! Here's some photo's of the innards: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yell0w_lantern Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I'm not good enough to diagnose anything specific even with pictures. If it comes and goes it may be a chip that is dying (probably from overheating or a problem with making contact such as a breaking/broken solder joint or coming up out of a socket. As someone mentioned earlier, re-seat all socketed chips. Here is an article that may help you: http://personalpages.tds.net/~rcarlsen/cbm/c64/c64-ic.txt Also, the power supply may be the problem on your C-64. After the power brick warms up, it can start sending excess voltage down your 5V line. I recommend either building a computer saver circuit http://personalpages.tds.net/~rcarlsen/cbm/c64/SAVER/saver.txt or replacing your power supply with something more modern - a common solution being new 2 wall wart supplies (9v Ac and 5V DC switching) soldered to the appropriate pinsof the chopped off end of your power bricks output wire to the 64. Check the Lemon 64 forums for more details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zylon Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) Those last screenshots look like a failing power supply. The DC voltage can spike after warmup. I test them before use with an automotive 12v light bulb. If the bulb brightens after a time, up to 30min, then the internal voltage regulator is bad. If you need IC's, I have a parts board with the same revision as yours. I used the PLA (IC with sticker on it) for another machine. Edited March 17, 2014 by zylon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyluli Wolf Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 I'll give a new power supply a shot for starters. Sounds like it would not be a bad idea to replace that anyway as the old ones have no safety features and can overload the system if they go bad. Does anyone know where I can purchase a good power supply for the commodore 64 or am I limited to building one myself? It looks like it may also be a good idea to add heat sinks to some of the chips. I'll have to research this a little as I'm sure something other than thermal paste will be needed to hold them in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyluli Wolf Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 Those last screenshots look like a failing power supply. The DC voltage can spike after warmup. I test them before use with an automotive 12v light bulb. If the bulb brightens after a time, up to 30min, then the internal voltage regulator is bad. If you need IC's, I have a parts board with the same revision as yours. I used the PLA (IC with sticker on it) for another machine. Thanks Zylon. From the sounds of it the PLA chip might be the most likely culprit of it's not the power supply. Who knows tho!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yell0w_lantern Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 No internet C64 shop is formally selling power supplies at this time because of the liability involved. Jim Brain is looking into it though. There is an ebay seller named Basic Wayne who sells a power supply. I bought one but returned it due to the noise it generated over my C64 to the TV speaker. At least one reviewer was not impressed by the workmanship. Heat sink whatever you can but definitely the VIC II, SID, and PLA. Several of the folks on Lemon 64 like the copper heat sinks from Enzotech - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Enzotech-MOS-C10-C1100-Forged-Copper-Heatsinks-only-/380824537212?pt=US_Memory_Chipset_Cooling&hash=item58aae9487c There are cheaper alternatives on deal extreme and you can make your own like Ray Carlsen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 That definitely looks like a power supply issue. I have seen similar before. Before you go crazy, buy another power supply and try it again. I would cease to use the power supply you have (or use it very little) until the replacement arrives. There are a few on ebay at some pretty high prices in my opinion. You are probably better off at these prices to find a faulty C64 with good PSU, or keep checking ebay for a good one. I purchased one not too long ago on ebay for $15 (plus $5 ship), so they do come up at reasonable prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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