82-T/A Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 I'd take some Heretic over GTA 23 or CoD 452 Hah, I would too. There's not a lot of new games I like. I find myself liking the older games, or Indie games, or remakes of older games. I spent a total of 6 hours last week playing Castle of the Winds 1 and 2. Anyone remember that? ... designed for Windows 3.0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 I beat Heretic on PC without using any of the flying spells or anything. Just slugged my way through. Are there different endings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 Are there different endings? There's the one where known liars still insist they have it complete. There's the one where Jason Bourne hacked the workstation got drunk and changed the code. There's the one where it doesn't need to run under emulation at 200%. There's the truth. Come on, let this thread die already ffs. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 Why must you guys upset CJ? Bastards 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Can this be ported to the Atari Lynx? I'd like to be added to that list as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 If it's too good to be true - it's probably too good to be true.I remember the bath-room door mirror-guy who said to me he would port Doom 3 PC game to Jaguar on multiple CDs.... ha ha ha I gave him 6 months to show any results.... long time ago haha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 If it's too good to be true - it's probably too good to be true. I remember the bath-room door mirror-guy who said to me he would port Doom 3 PC game to Jaguar on multiple CDs.... ha ha ha I gave him 6 months to show any results.... long time ago haha I'd like to have this version on the Jaguar too. CryanoJ, make it so... thx! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VladR Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 I'd like to have this version on the Jaguar too. CryanoJ, make it so... thx! I know you're being sarcastic, but it's not actually technically impossible to have a real-time close-to-Doom 3-style gfx on a jaguar: - we're talking only low-poly walls / environment here (none of those ultra high-poly machines or characters) - remember HalfLife 1 ? The one, which every few rooms halted the game in the middle of the corridor for 10 seconds to load few more rooms ? - We don't have RAM for static lightmaps on jag (Quake 1 wants 8-16 MB for that), but we can use the same system to halt the game to compute the lightmaps at run-time - We don't have enough memory for high-res textures, but using procedural texturing techniques (even simple texture repeat/wrapping/mirroring can instantly quadruple the resolution without any cost) you can get quite close - With a 6 MB ROM, plenty materials would fit there - good enough for target resolution (320x200), that is - Remember, the final performance cost of drawing the textured polygon is identical, regardless of whether: - the polygon has only 1 texture or - the polygon has : Base Texture + 2-4 Point lights + Detail Map + Specular (all computed on GPU and DSP) Of course, Doom3 at 320x200 even on PC looks much, much worse than what everybody played it at (800x600 and up), but it's technologically possible to achieve very similar visual run-time quality (just walls, not characters!) even on a jaguar. The engineering/ coding complexity is, however, substantial. Even with what I have now, it would take me at least 3-4 months fulltime, day-to-day, to create the engine that would be able to do the above for few rooms (and that's not even full level, that would be another 3+ fulltime months). But, it's not impossible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VladR Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 (edited) Just so we're on the same page, here's how Doom3 looks at 320x200 with low-res textures: There's not even 100 polygons on those walls. Sure, some rooms are big, and would have appropriate slowdown, but those high-poly machines are not in each room either, and I'd argue that they don't really bring that much to the Doom3 atmosphere. It's the dark lighting that makes the atmosphere. And for that, you only need walls. Once the GPU/DSP computed all per-pixel lighting (during loading times, every few rooms), and merged all lights and effects to a single texture, it really is just a basic texturing (performance-wise). Far from impossible... Edited July 16, 2018 by VladR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 (edited) They fit Quake II in a 3mb PSX. I imagine you could go a chunk smaller for Quake. Especially using procedural texturing. Edited July 16, 2018 by JagChris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAVE 1 GAMES Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 How dare you guys imagine things that can be done on the Jaguar! What are you guys thinking coming up with ideas!?!??! Lol. In all seriousness if they were able to hack doom 2 to look like Goledenye on N64 (which they did) no reason a scaled down version of doom 3 couldn't be concocted using the AVP engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VladR Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 They fit Quake II in a 3mb PSX. I imagine you could go a chunk smaller for Quake. Especially using procedural texturing. Yeah, but they were streaming all the lightmaps and textures off CD, right ? Sure, we could do the same on jag - every few rooms, load the lightmaps from CD, but at that point, since the player is waiting for the spinning CD, you might as well spend that time computing real-time lighting like in Doom3. Of course, it's much faster to just implement CD streaming of prebaked lightmaps than it is to implement real-time per-pixel lighting via GPU How dare you guys imagine things that can be done on the Jaguar! What are you guys thinking coming up with ideas!?!??! Lol. In all seriousness if they were able to hack doom 2 to look like Goledenye on N64 (which they did) no reason a scaled down version of doom 3 couldn't be concocted using the AVP engine. Well, not AVP - that's a raycaster. I'm talking real 3D polygons here, so you can have those nice door frames with varied angled/beveled edges. But, that's where the second 3+ months of dev time comes from - you need to implement some visibility technology that will allow you decimate the whole level into just few hundred visible polygons (I am currently leaning towards portals, as they are far more memory-access friendly than the binary tree traversal used in Quake) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walter_J64bit Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 They fit Quake II in a 3mb PSX. I imagine you could go a chunk smaller for Quake. Especially using procedural texturing. I've seen Quake II for PSX just the other day at a flea market, I've had forgotten about the game being on the PSX it looked odd but anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Yeah, but they were streaming all the lightmaps and textures off CD, right ? Sure, we could do the same on jag - If you have access to Black Ice White Noise you will be able to see that Ken Rose devised a revolutionary technique that eliminated waiting for CD loading. But that's Ken Rose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 How dare you guys imagine things that can be done on the Jaguar! What are you guys thinking coming up with ideas!?!??! Lol. In all seriousness if they were able to hack doom 2 to look like Goledenye on N64 (which they did) no reason a scaled down version of doom 3 couldn't be concocted using the AVP engine. Hopefully they are able to hack Frogz64 to look and play just as good as Frogger on Atari 2600, no reason a scaled down version of God of War couldnt be concocted using the Club Drive engine. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 If you have access to Black Ice White Noise you will be able to see that Ken Rose devised a revolutionary technique that eliminated waiting for CD loading. But that's Ken Rose. You mean "Interrupt Driven Loading" .... yup... totally new, never seen that before anywhere..... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 You mean "Interrupt Driven Loading" .... yup... totally new, never seen that before anywhere..... Really? They had that in 95? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VladR Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 I've seen Quake II for PSX just the other day at a flea market, I've had forgotten about the game being on the PSX it looked odd but anyway. Odd ? I would say that Quake 2 looked pretty next-gen for PS1, 16-bit textures, bilinear filtering - I've seen lots of PS2 games look much worse... If you have access to Black Ice White Noise you will be able to see that Ken Rose devised a revolutionary technique that eliminated waiting for CD loading. But that's Ken Rose. With 2 MB of RAM, the speed of data transfer is not really the greatest issue for 3D games, as you're not transferring large quantities of data each frame. I only have experience with streaming data off CD on PC, but the most important thing was to not ever seek backwards, rather duplicate the data, and make sure the cd is constantly spinning and always ready for next transfer. That was the smoothest and fastest, and least loud way, because the moment you start seeking back, it's the typical CD clusterfuck... Either way, once I get a hold of cart burning equipment, I won't even consider CD for jag dev... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 ... Either way, once I get a hold of cart burning equipment, I won't even consider CD for jag dev... <sarcasm> ... and then the fumes will be real </sarcasm> Just kidding, but "cart burning" made me think of it. (psst they are waterproof, for that underwater smoke) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gummy Bear Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Haha! Those be some dramatic matches! "Emergency Zone" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Really? They had that in 95? I don't know who the mystical 'they' are but this technique predates 95 by a long way...... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 I don't know who the mystical 'they' are but this technique predates 95 by a long way...... That must be why it was so prevalently used in Saturn and PSX games. I mean with the competition being what it was back then these companies were sure to hop all over such a well known feature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 That must be why it was so prevalently used in Saturn and PSX games. I mean with the competition being what it was back then these companies were sure to hop all over such a well known feature. The Atari 8-bit was doing it back in the early 80s. It could have done so in 79 when released given the right software. I had several games which would play music and animations while loading data at the same time. Lots of shit on the PSX did it too. Sorry I don't recall the game I had back in 96, but it streamed background data from the CD while superimposing a 3D ship and the objects you would shot at to destroy. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gummy Bear Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 The Atari 8-bit was doing it back in the early 80s. It could have done so in 79 when released given the right software. I had several games which would play music and animations while loading data at the same time. Lots of shit on the PSX did it too. Sorry I don't recall the game I had back in 96, but it streamed background data from the CD while superimposing a 3D ship and the objects you would shot at to destroy. Ridge Racer. You could play like a mini Galaga while it was loading. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 SWIV and a couple others on the ST/AMIGA load the game map data as it's playing.It is very common in ST scene demos as well. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.