Atari Jaguar Capabilities

[walter_J64bit]

 

How does it compare to the CD version of IS2?

It plays the same as the CD version.

[NinSEGA]

Blackout is far, far, far better on the PS1.

 

[Willard]

i think you have to remember that most of the early ps1 games were actually not all that impressive either (or at least, as nice looking as you probably picture when you think of PS1 games). 3 of 10 launch games were even some form of what was also released on the Jaguar (Raiden Project, NBA Jam TE, Rayman).

 

The biggest PS1 launch games (Ridge Racer and Battle Arena Toshiden) were actually ports of impressive Arcade games. IMO it's sad that Atari was so content with porting games 16-bit games off other platforms or making cheap knockoffs of popular games instead of porting arcade games that would've clearly contrasted with 16-bit counterparts (like Street Fighter 2 and Mortal Kombat 2). Or at least struck a deal with EA and Crystal Dynamics, whose games probably would've sold the Jaguar much better than the 3DO (IMO the price killed the 3DO). Or on the periphery of possible alternate reality, actually started on Ridge Racer in early '94 with a talented team and had a version that at least resembled the Arcade version out by holiday '95 (note ridge racer was released in '93 for arcades).

 

That said, I think there are a few jaguar games that are similar in quality to early saturn/psx games: Tempest 2000, Rayman, Defender 2000, Battlemorph (if only the draw distance was a little better!), and NBA jam TE - in the sense they are much more impressive than games of the previous generation and are in line with the polish and refinement you expect from respectable 32-bit/64-bit games.

 

Some others (Zero 5, missile command 3D, World Tour Racing, Alien VS Predator) come close imo, but are a little too rough around the edges to really blend in the the 32-bit generation

Edited March 29, 2014 by Willard

[82-T/A]

I've never coded for the Jaguar, but based on everything I've read (or at least absorbed) is that the Jaguar is hard to develop for when you're trying to take advantage of it's many features. For most (based on what I think I've read) most games are developed to take advantage of the Motorola 16-bit processor that was mostly built for handling I/O and some other features. Brutal Sports Football comes to mind. If people were to really take full advantage of Tom & Jerry... I think the games would probably be far more capable than what most of the games are.

 

But yeah, where does the Jaguar sit in the timeline? The Jaguar came out in 1992... which was pretty close to the NES release. I think the PS1 came out in like 1994 or 1995 or something.

[JagLynx4Life]

Rayman for example has better color and sharper background. And the jag version is on cart which makes it very impressive with the limited memory.

 

 

NBA jam also runs extremely fast and has huge sprites on the jaguar which I prefer over the PS version.

 

And some of the 3D games such as doom, alien vs predator, wolfestein, tempest and IS series I feel would be identical on the ps and jag.

 

I think the biggest disappointment is that the jaguar is marketed as a 64bit system and didn't live up to the hype especially when you compare the quality of games from the ps and saturn which are 32bit consoles.

Edited March 29, 2014 by JagLynx4Life

[Orion_]

well, I don't know what video output this guy used for the ps1, but it's a very shitty video output (I guess it's a RCA cable)

let's compare real pixel perfect image:

You can actually count more color in the ps1 version (2940) than the jaguar version (2670)

I guess this is because the background is different and more colorful in the ps1 version.

Now if you compare the forground tile which are the same in both version, the jaguar version have more color, but, for me it's barelly noticeable.

(an example taken in the bottom tiles, 35 colors for the ps1, 325 for the jaguar)

Now, add the video and the amazing audio cd tracks, and it really contribute to a better game experience

even if rayman came in JagCD version, the ps1 mdec video is far better than cinepak video.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Orion_

[+CyranoJ]

All that proves is that a PS1 can look like a Jaguar, not the other way around

[Orion_]

ok so, let's talk tech, SCPCD demonstrated with a highly gpu optimised code + the OP pushed to the limit, that the Jaguar can display 1900 4x4 sprites at 60fps in 320x240

now I have a code from the ps1 sdk demonstrating 3000 16x16 sprites at 60fps in 640x480 running on my ps1. https://twitter.com/onorisoft/status/347104806692872193/photo/1

do the math.

[sh3-rg]

but but but ps1 can't do sprites!!!111one

[NeoGeoNinja]

You can actually count more color in the ps1 version (2940) than the jaguar version (2670)

I guess this is because the background is different and more colorful in the ps1 version.

Now if you compare the forground tile which are the same in both version, the jaguar version have more color, but, for me it's barelly noticeable.

(an example taken in the bottom tiles, 35 colors for the ps1, 325 for the jaguar)

Now, add the video and the amazing audio cd tracks, and it really contribute to a better game experience

even if rayman came in JagCD version, the ps1 mdec video is far better than cinepak video.

 

Ssssh now Orion!

 

Them Jaguar fans hate such rational levels of objectivity when discussing such matters, especially Rayman! (The Jaguar has tha BEST version, dont'cha know?).

 

In all seriousness though, luckily, Rayman is great on whichever platform you buy it for; Saturn, PS1 or Jag.

 

Chances are though, the aforementioned two are easier on the wallet! However, the Jag version offers a more varied experience > owning both SAT & PS1 ver's only...

[82-T/A]

I wonder how the Saturn compares with some of the other systems? I REALLY like the Saturn (not as much as the Jaguar), but many of the games for the Saturn are really pretty cool...

[ggn]

Hmm, did everyone just cancel their bids to buy Orion_ a JagCD or did I just imagine it?

[82-T/A]

Hmm, did everyone just cancel their bids to buy Orion_ a JagCD or did I just imagine it?

 

I'm definitely not bothered that a system that came out 2 years later is better than a system that came out in 1992. I have a PS1 and a Saturn, though I really only play the Jaguar.

[Willard]

well, I don't know what video output this guy used for the ps1, but it's a very shitty video output (I guess it's a RCA cable)

let's compare real pixel perfect image:

You can actually count more color in the ps1 version (2940) than the jaguar version (2670)

I guess this is because the background is different and more colorful in the ps1 version.

Now if you compare the forground tile which are the same in both version, the jaguar version have more color, but, for me it's barelly noticeable.

(an example taken in the bottom tiles, 35 colors for the ps1, 325 for the jaguar)

Now, add the video and the amazing audio cd tracks, and it really contribute to a better game experience

even if rayman came in JagCD version, the ps1 mdec video is far better than cinepak video.

 

to be fair i think the intro level is not really a fair basis for comparison. the jaguar version uses the background shown in your screen cap on other levels, the two versions just used different backgrounds for the intro.The jaguar version is a little more appropriate because if you look at the world map the game starts you in the middle of a forest. It was probably changed on the PS version so the first level looked flashier and more next-gen.

 

I think it'd be nice to have a color count on identical sections from the two different versions though (other than the intro level). I never really had an opinion on the difference in color count between the two versions but I think it'd be interesting to know for sure.

 

I feel the PSX is more visually impressive due to the additional layers of scrolling and the more varied plants .etc, but there are also some more impressive looking elements to the jaguar version. in general I think it's an impressive looking game on the Jaguar though, games like that should've come alot sooner for the Jaguar.

[+Gemintronic]

Hmm, did everyone just cancel their bids to buy Orion_ a JagCD or did I just imagine it?

 

I think PSX homebrew still requires a modded system. The Jag + CD encryption has already been dealt with. Until the average Joe can just stick in a homebrew PSX CD and play I can't see that scene getting bigger.

[sh3-rg]

 

I think PSX homebrew still requires a modded system. The Jag + CD encryption has already been dealt with. Until the average Joe can just stick in a homebrew PSX CD and play I can't see that scene getting bigger.

 

It's not so much that, you can buy a $5 cart for the original ps that bypasses that. It's more to do with other things. If Jaguar was as successful and there was a Jaguar 2, 3 and 4, it'd be just as likely nobody would have much motivation to do anything with the old original Jaguar as the fans would have moved on, there would be many multiples of official software and variations for collectors, basically just plenty more stuff out there to interest Jaguar fans than "little homebrews".

 

The PS also had an active scene back in the day. There wasn't exactly loads done afaik, but I remember seeing a few decent demos, probably more than the Jaguar has ever or is ever likely to see. I'm sure there were plenty of homebrew efforts back then as well, I just don't really remember exactly. There was plenty of emulation stuff and I suppose the Net Yaroze gave birth to plenty of stuff. But now... it's easy to imagine that people have better things to do if PS is their thing.

[high voltage]

pop-up, worse on PSX

[Tenorman]

If we are comparing the Jaguar to other consoles, I think a more apt comparison would be against the other "late 4th gen / early 5th gen" ones. I think the Jaguar can more than hold its own against the 3DO and the 32X. That's a whole separate "discussion" that's been hashed out numerous times though.

 

When we start talking about the Saturn, PSX, and N64 things just don't look good for the Jaguar.

[108 Stars]

pop-up, worse on PSX

Well, uhm, only because he PS1 has an assload of more 3D games. To my understanding pop up happens when the system can't draw enough polygons to render everything all the time while maintaining a decent speed, so only the near stuff is rendered. the stuff farther away either pops up when you get near or it slowly appears out of some kind of fog effect.

 

The PS1 can draw more polygons than the Jaguar, so pop-up would actually be worse on the Jaguar. The Jaguar just doesn't have very many 3D games. The PS1 has over 4000 games, likely more than half of them 3D. The best ones have little issues with pop up, the bad ones do. Anything that suffers from pop ups on PS1 would suffer from it on the Jaguar too, only on an even shorter distance.

 

 

But one thing comes to my mind that the Jaguar does better than the PS1 I believe. Texture warping. The PS1 had one major flaw in the 3D department, and that was that when you looked at textures from a flat angle the textures became distorted. While it excelled in 3D in other aspects, that was one flaw that Saturn, 3DO and even Jag I believe did not have.

 

I'm definitely not bothered that a system that came out 2 years later is better than a system that came out in 1992. I have a PS1 and a Saturn, though I really only play the Jaguar.

One year. The Jag first came out in late 1993, the PS1 came out in Japan for Christmas 1994. Still a year can make a difference, as can know how.

Edited March 29, 2014 by 108 Stars

[Austin]

pop-up, worse on PSX

 

Um.. No.

 

 

 

I'm definitely not bothered that a system that came out 2 years later is better than a system that came out in 1992. I have a PS1 and a Saturn, though I really only play the Jaguar.

 

That's a shame. You're missing out on loads of amazing games, many of which that are on a level you rarely get with the Jaguar.

[JagLynx4Life]

I'm a jag and ps fan boy so I love both systems oh I almost forgot, sky hammer is also another impressive 3d shooter IMO is a next gen PS/saturn quality title on the jag.

 

Edited March 29, 2014 by JagLynx4Life

[ggn]

I think PSX homebrew still requires a modded system. The Jag + CD encryption has already been dealt with. Until the average Joe can just stick in a homebrew PSX CD and play I can't see that scene getting bigger.

Is that a challenge?

[+Stephen]

ok so, let's talk tech, SCPCD demonstrated with a highly gpu optimised code + the OP pushed to the limit, that the Jaguar can display 1900 4x4 sprites at 60fps in 320x240

now I have a code from the ps1 sdk demonstrating 3000 16x16 sprites at 60fps in 640x480 running on my ps1. https://twitter.com/onorisoft/status/347104806692872193/photo/1

do the math.

That's excellent - I've often wondered how many sprites the PS1 could throw around!

[+Gemintronic]

Is that a challenge?

 

There's already a BASIC compiler for the Playstation.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/psxbasic/

 

The other foot to drop is a utility that takes the compiled game executable and makes it a bootable .iso compatible with un-modded systems.

[+remowilliams]

ok so, let's talk tech, SCPCD demonstrated with a highly gpu optimised code + the OP pushed to the limit, that the Jaguar can display 1900 4x4 sprites at 60fps in 320x240

now I have a code from the ps1 sdk demonstrating 3000 16x16 sprites at 60fps in 640x480 running on my ps1. https://twitter.com/onorisoft/status/347104806692872193/photo/1

do the math.

 

 

So the Jag takes a 3D mauling and a 2D severe beating. Annnndd that's a wrap for the 'is the Jag a PS1 in disguise' line of conversation...