akator Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Between our household, family, and friends I experienced many different systems in the 80s but had little experience with actual Atari computers. Most of what I knew about them was through magazines and marketing. I had the impression that the platform was still heavily supported for years in the US after the ST was introduced. I've gotten a lot more into A8 recently and have only just noticed that Broderbund's Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego is not available for the A8. After some searching, it appears that Broderbund ended their support for A8 around 1985. Was this common? Did many companies stop supporting the A8 at the same time? Was it because the ST series arrived? Are there many more prominent 8-bit / home computer titles that never made it to the A8? Don't get me wrong... I'm not complaining about or criticizing the A8 platform, just wondering if titles like the Carmen Sandiego series not being on A8 were historically part of a larger trend or more of an aberration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 (edited) I've gotten a lot more into A8 recently and have only just noticed that Broderbund's Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego is not available for the A8. After some searching, it appears that Broderbund ended their support for A8 around 1985. Too bad, as Broderbund published a lot of quality games. I never played Carmen much, but I'd liked to have seen Oregon Trail for the 8-bits. I think it would have played and looked quite good. Edited April 8, 2014 by MrFish 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 (edited) That probably had a lot to do with Jack Tremial taking over Atari. Him and his family thought video games were evil unless they themselves could make huge profits from it. Noticed a lot of games stopped being ported over to the Atari 8-bit platform after 1985. Edited April 8, 2014 by peteym5 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Microsoft Windows never made it to the A8, and I never missed it so far 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 A good chunk of Oregon Trail is written in BASIC. The Apple version requires 64K. I think the PC port used Borland Pascal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 The list of games that could have technically been done but didn't make it is a long one. What also hurt is that Lucasfilm made their gaming debut with Atari systems but were the first system they dropped. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokeless Joe Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 I was always sad and disappointed that the Wizardry series never made it to the A8. Here are the release dates for the first scenario (in North America, according to Wikipedia): Apple II - September 1981 PC booter - 1984 Macintosh - 1985 Commodore 64 - 1987 NES - July 1990 So pretty much everyone in that decade got Wizardry at some point, except Atari. It wasn't even made for the ST or Amiga (spiritual Atari successor). Did the Wizardry guys have something against Atari? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 I this Sir Tech or whatever his name is was biased against Atari. The C64 release was to cash in on the big install base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbking67 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Well you could take a list opf Apple II and C64 titles from companies that formerly supported the Atari and start with that. It's quite a long list. Most companies making disk-based software were dealing with fairly low volume sales on the Atari. Considering that a large number of systems were sold as glorified game machines and only had 16K of memory, it's easy to understand why they dropped Atari. Porting software probably didn't even cost that much... but the sales have to justify it. For me there are a few titles that we sorely missed on Atari: Ultima V Bard's Tale Sundog There are several other RPG/Adventure games that Atari was passed over for... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 A good chunk of Oregon Trail is written in BASIC. What do you mean by "a good chunk"? Do you mean to say that the Apple II version was a combination of BASIC and machine language? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 I was always sad and disappointed that the Wizardry series never made it to the A8. Here are the release dates for the first scenario (in North America, according to Wikipedia): Apple II - September 1981 PC booter - 1984 Macintosh - 1985 Commodore 64 - 1987 NES - July 1990 So pretty much everyone in that decade got Wizardry at some point, except Atari. It wasn't even made for the ST or Amiga (spiritual Atari successor). Did the Wizardry guys have something against Atari? Wizardry V and VI made it over to the Amiga. I think by the time the ST and Amiga were worth supporting, the idea of converting the older games made little sense at the time. With that said, they could have used the Macintosh version as inspiration since that one had to be a complete redesign anyway. Considering the Commodore 64 didn't get a port until 1987 of the Trilogy, it was probably too (commercially) late for the Atari 8-bit series to be relevant for porting plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricortes Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 The only game I missed on the Atari was Pools of Radiance and sequels. SSI, that series, popular for years. I still have my original HD install around as a back up. It even made it to the original NES as much lesser version with toned down game play. Modern gamers don't care for anything less then FPP and massively multiplayer of course. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Dwhyte was attempting to bring over the Apple version of Wizardry. But then he blew a gasket over something and dumped the project: Wizardry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Wizardry V and VI made it over to the Amiga. I think by the time the ST and Amiga were worth supporting, the idea of converting the older games made little sense at the time. With that said, they could have used the Macintosh version as inspiration since that one had to be a complete redesign anyway. Only Wizardry VI made it to the Amiga AFAIK. The C64 didn't get IV and the Macintosh only got I, II, and VI. Dwhyte was attempting to bring over the Apple version of Wizardry. But then he blew a gasket over something and dumped the project: Wizardry I thought his computer crashed and he lost all the source code? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 I thought his computer crashed and he lost all the source code? That's what he initially said. But then later he admitted that he had gotten pissed off about something and just deleted the code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Only Wizardry VI made it to the Amiga AFAIK. The C64 didn't get IV and the Macintosh only got I, II, and VI. You're right, only VI made it to the Amiga. I tend to think of those games by their sub-titles rather than their numbers. I remember that being one of many ports I was disappointed on on the Amiga because it mimicked the EGA graphics from the PC, horrible color palette and all. For what it's worth, several of the Japanese computers (MSX, etc.) and consoles (PC Engine, etc.) also got Wizardry ports. For whatever reason, both Ultima and Wizardry were very popular in Japan, and the latter continued to receive new editions (albeit with anime styling) long after the series stalled over here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 That's what he initially said. But then later he admitted that he had gotten pissed off about something and just deleted the code. That's a rather disturbing thought. It's amazing how sensitive some programmers are. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akator Posted April 8, 2014 Author Share Posted April 8, 2014 That's a rather disturbing thought. It's amazing how sensitive some programmers are. Well... I believe in giving benefit of the doubt to people. Sometimes life sucks. Maybe deleting it did something good emotionally, vented something, that made life better. After all, each of us a unique and fragile snowflake that is only temporarily floating around until someone writes their name with yellow snow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 That's what he initially said. But then later he admitted that he had gotten pissed off about something and just deleted the code. Here's one of his statements about it. I think there were more, but this one pretty much sums it up: Dwhyte: Wizardry, Deleted Project Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 That's a rather disturbing thought. It's amazing how sensitive some programmers are. Yea, I never really understood it much myself. If I was getting bothered by people's comment on a project I was working on, then I'd just keep the development private and make it clear that I wasn't going to post anymore updates, or listen to any more comments on the forums, and that it'd be released when it was finished. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Yea, I never really understood it much myself. If I was getting bothered by people's comment on a project I was working on, then I'd just keep the development private and make it clear that I wasn't going to post anymore updates, or listen to any more comments on the forums, and that it'd be released when it was finished. I can say from experience having a thick skin is a learned skill when it comes to Internet comments when putting your work out in public. Those comments can come from misunderstanding, ignorance, trolling, or simple hate. While such comments can easily bring your creative energy down, I think rage deleting your work is excessive. Again, whether it's that or just stopping work and dropping out of the scene, it seems that there is a higher percentage of such things in the programming community. Maybe it's the "mind of the programmer" that sees things more in the binary (good/bad) rather than the more nuanced degrees (good/bad and the why). Still, I do hope that that's something that time/experience can help such a person overcome eventually. It's not good to let people get to you like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 I can say from experience having a thick skin is a learned skill when it comes to Internet comments when putting your work out in public. Those comments can come from misunderstanding, ignorance, trolling, or simple hate. While such comments can easily bring your creative energy down, I think rage deleting your work is excessive. Again, whether it's that or just stopping work and dropping out of the scene, it seems that there is a higher percentage of such things in the programming community. Maybe it's the "mind of the programmer" that sees things more in the binary (good/bad) rather than the more nuanced degrees (good/bad and the why). Still, I do hope that that's something that time/experience can help such a person overcome eventually. It's not good to let people get to you like that. Maybe in his case he thought that deleting the project would rid his life of the grief it was causing him. But after having put as much time into it, I would think you could just lay it aside for a time instead. I can't really see what harm it would do just sitting on the hard drive. Of course if it was in a fit of rage, then nothing you can do after that, unless it was in a recoverable state by the time you realized you'd made a mistake. I'm sure he learned something about people and forums and such in the process. He hasn't posted here since around 2010 though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 What do you mean by "a good chunk"? Do you mean to say that the Apple II version was a combination of BASIC and machine language? Precisely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwilove Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 In 1985 I did try writing to some companies supporting Atari computers - like Datasoft (for example) - to see if they were possibly interested in marketing 'Hot Copter' (which was renamed to Laser Hawk by Red Rat (UK)) - but there was no interest from the US.. I tried US companies first.. The peak games time for the Atari 800 etc computers - would be around 1983-1984 - when Synapse launched it's groundbreaking titles the likes of Blue Max, Encounter and so on... Which was before the release of the C64 computer. And when sales of the C64 took off - there were fewer and fewer Atari 800 versions... In 1989 when I was seeking a company to market Hawkquest - the one company I now regret not contacting - was Atari UK. I was not aware that they were releasing games themselves - so it would have been just great, to have had their support in launching a very special game project. Very few companies in the UK, would be releasing games for the Atari 800 etc at that time. I'm always for taking advantage of the Atari Graphics and Sound capabilities to it's maximum? Standard games which don't take advantage of these features - would look rather ordinary. Back in the day - there was one or more? articles written about Atari games that never were released. I will guess that most of those listed would have been appeared somewhere by now... and only a few have never showed up at all? I can't remember the titles listed - as it was so long ago - but you should be able to find the article somewhere... One game I would have liked to have seen - mentioned in an interview with Archer McLean - would be his version of Defender - that he wrote before Dropzone - to see how much better it was, over the official Atari version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormtrooper of Death Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 I remember some games that were supposted to be released on the ATari 8bit system, but never were are: The Last Ninja Double Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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