Cost Savings & The Missing Sounds

[Trebor]

Hearing the Xevious high score saving melody emphasizes that even with just TIA the 7800 could have shined more if enough time and the right resources were provided back in the 80's:

 

http://youtu.be/E_1v1JZR6LU

[Have not found a way to embed video to a specific time frame to these boards, sorry]

 

You can fast forwarded directly to the high score entry part utilizing this link.

[Rybags]

Still, Pokey instead of TIA might have cost a few extra bucks at most. Likely not having to support the slower mode and deletion of the support logic from Maria might have allowed it to be more powerful.

 

Reallly, I have to question the value of downward compatability in consoles - of all the consoles ever released it wasn't present on all that many and even deleted later on in some cases. Plus, once they're on the market for a few months it's like everyone forgets about it anyway.

[ColecoGemini]

Still, Pokey instead of TIA might have cost a few extra bucks at most. Likely not having to support the slower mode and deletion of the support logic from Maria might have allowed it to be more powerful.

 

Reallly, I have to question the value of downward compatability in consoles - of all the consoles ever released it wasn't present on all that many and even deleted later on in some cases. Plus, once they're on the market for a few months it's like everyone forgets about it anyway.

Yeah, I would go ahead and disagree with you wholeheartedly. I absolutely love that my 7800 has 2600 compatibility, that my Sega Genesis can play SMS games with a simple, cheap, easy to find adapter, and that my PS3 essentially plays every game in the Playstation Line I've ever owned (plus fantastic emulators of every system I've ever owned).

 

This is also one of the reasons I've never owned a Nintendon't console, and have no desire to own a PS4 at this point or any X-Box consoles.

[Rybags]

"Simple, cheap, easy to find" - in the day it probably wasn't cheap.

 

PS3 emulation of other systems isn't necessarily something Sony intended to happen. We can't really count mod/hacks of modern consoles as features, it's just that they're fast enough to be able to emulate older systems in similar way that PCs can do the same. No doubt eventually XBone & PS4 will be doing the same.

 

Backward compatability is a double-edged sword. Increased cost/complexity at the onset but immediate access to a usually large back-catalog.

But in the 7800s case the corner-cutting is clearly evident because they settled for TIA to do the sound and all of about 2 releases in the day actually scored a Pokey.

At least with the NES, they put enhancement chips into a large number of carts, so were able to overcome the shortcomings of the system later on.

[Trebor]

"Simple, cheap, easy to find" - in the day it probably wasn't cheap.

 

$34.95 was not too shabby: https://www.flickr.com/photos/wishbook/6477965815/in/set-72157627599866359/

 

What is considered 'cheap' though is relative to person/circumstance.

Although if it were $19.95 (or less) I believe we would have a definitive consensus

 

Then again, there was this...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1HjEG-cyDQ

 

It doesn't get any cheaper than *free*.

[ColecoGemini]

"Simple, cheap, easy to find" - in the day it probably wasn't cheap.

 

PS3 emulation of other systems isn't necessarily something Sony intended to happen. We can't really count mod/hacks of modern consoles as features, it's just that they're fast enough to be able to emulate older systems in similar way that PCs can do the same. No doubt eventually XBone & PS4 will be doing the same.

 

Backward compatability is a double-edged sword. Increased cost/complexity at the onset but immediate access to a usually large back-catalog.

But in the 7800s case the corner-cutting is clearly evident because they settled for TIA to do the sound and all of about 2 releases in the day actually scored a Pokey.

At least with the NES, they put enhancement chips into a large number of carts, so were able to overcome the shortcomings of the system later on.

The PowerBase Adapter for the Genesis was $30 retail originally.

 

The PS3 originally had full PS1/PS2 backwards compatibility on board, and even thought they removed it to cut manufacturing costs later, the BC consoles are still the most sought-after models on the re-seller's market, as there's still a pretty sizeable demand for them. As for Hacks, yes - they are available, but there are also tons of legitimate release retro-emulation games, both od BD and for download on the PSN. and it's no secret that the COBRA-7 Custom Firmware variants are the most popular on the hacker/CFW scene, because of the bakcwards compatibility.

 

Also - the PS2 had full PS1 backwards compatibility and it dominated that era.

 

Adding a Pokey to the 7800 wouldn't have impacted it's ability to be 2600 compatible. IT woud have been nice for sound, but the cost of the Pokey Chips and then the added porgramming time required to make use of it was what drove the decision to leave it out, not 2600 BC.

 

We really can't compare the NES to the 7800 fairly, since the NES had a stranglehold on 3rd party developers and essentially locked out Atari and Sega. Atari simply didn't have the financial means or delevopment house resources to keep up. It really had nothing to do with being backwards compatible with the 2600.

Edited April 18, 2014 by ColecoGemini

[Trebor]

Atari simply didn't have the financial means or delevopment house resources to keep up.

Exactly and part of the point made in the OP...It really is a shame though.

 

However, there's still so much potential and hoping to see even more great stuff coming from our fantastic devs. on the 7800 scene today.

[Lynxpro]

"Simple, cheap, easy to find" - in the day it probably wasn't cheap.

PS3 emulation of other systems isn't necessarily something Sony intended to happen. We can't really count mod/hacks of modern consoles as features, it's just that they're fast enough to be able to emulate older systems in similar way that PCs can do the same. No doubt eventually XBone & PS4 will be doing the same.

Backward compatability is a double-edged sword. Increased cost/complexity at the onset but immediate access to a usually large back-catalog.

But in the 7800s case the corner-cutting is clearly evident because they settled for TIA to do the sound and all of about 2 releases in the day actually scored a Pokey.

At least with the NES, they put enhancement chips into a large number of carts, so were able to overcome the shortcomings of the system later on.

 

 

I don't think that was GCC's motivation. Remember, it was in their best interest to peddle GCC designed tech over homegrown Atari tech. Not designing a mobo layout to accommodate a POKEY gave GCC an advantage to pitch their own designed accessory cart-based audio chip [Gumby] that potentially would've been included in every future 7800 game release. That would've meant serious royalties for GCC had Atari Inc/NATCO survived and the sale to Tramiel had never happened. Had GCC designed the 7800 to include a POKEY from the start then Inc could've potentially declared it good-enough and wouldn't have been interested in GCC's GUMBY, especially since Inc was negotiating for the Amiga chipset [which included the Paula] and still had the AMY under development in the pipeline. Any of those chips could've ended up in future 7800 carts...and should have.

 

I'm totally of the opinion that one of Corp's biggest blunders was not getting the AMY finished. Even had finishing development dragged out to 1986, it still could've made it into the later 7800 titles, not to mention the STe computers, plus, it could've been sold to Atari Games Corp since originally, they had been seriously considering choosing the AMY over the YM2151 according to their pre-July 1984 email discussions. [and us ST/STe owners could've gloated to the Amiga fanbois over how much better the AMY was vs Paula as an added bonus]. However, Corp at that time was experiencing nothing but grief getting the Blitter chip finished. I'm still a bit torqued that the promised official Blitter upgrade for the original 520/1040STs never happened.

 

[i'm assuming Corp wouldn't have ever made AMY available for the A8s after the 65XEM was cancelled, unless they ended up bundling it with the XEGS in this scenario. It's also surprising to me that Inc didn't consider going Dual or Quad POKEY in the 1400XL/1450XLD as a means of silencing the hoopla over the C-64's SID amongst enthusiasts and computer press.].