Is there any PROOF that the 7800 was test marketed in 1984?

[AlecRob]

Exactly what i said in the title. I have to settle this issue with a friend once-and-for-all.

[atari181]

http://atariage.com/7800/history.html

[NIKON]

Any 7800 cart that displays copyright 1984 was used in the test market... and here is another link

 

http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Category:Atari_7800

 

 

the Atari 7800 was originally to be released in 1984 but Jack Tramiel decided agaisnt it because

 

1. he was not happy with the test market results and

 

2. the North American video game crash of 1983.

 

The 7800 was re released in 1986 as an attempt to gain control of the video game market that was staring to be dominated by Nintendo with the NES console. albeit was a marketing failure.

Edited April 19, 2014 by NIKON

[Lynxpro]

That history page could use revising.

[ApolloBoy]

the Atari 7800 was originally to be released in 1984 but Jack Tramiel decided agaisnt it because

 

1. he was not happy with the test market results and

 

2. the North American video game crash of 1983.

None of those are actually true, Tramiel wanted to release the 7800 during the fall of '84 but General Computer (the developer of the 7800 and the launch titles) hadn't been paid royalties, and so Atari Corp. and Warner went back and forth who owed GCC payments (ultimately it was Tramiel who paid GCC). On top of that, Atari needed someone to head the reformed video game division and so Atari didn't start gearing up for the 7800's release until late 1985, which culminated in the 7800's reintroduction at the Winter CES in 1986. This has all been talked about to death here over the years.

 

 

The 7800 was re released in 1986 as an attempt to gain control of the video game market that was staring to be dominated by Nintendo with the NES console.

The NES wasn't much of a factor when the 7800 was released in early '86; the NES hadn't been released nationwide by that point and the NYC test market in October '85 didn't go that well.

[NIKON]

None of those are actually true, Tramiel wanted to release the 7800 during the fall of '84 but General Computer (the developer of the 7800 and the launch titles) hadn't been paid royalties, and so Atari Corp. and Warner went back and forth who owed GCC payments (ultimately it was Tramiel who paid GCC). On top of that, Atari needed someone to head the reformed video game division and so Atari didn't start gearing up for the 7800's release until late 1985, which culminated in the 7800's reintroduction at the Winter CES in 1986. This has all been talked about to death here over the years.

 

 

The NES wasn't much of a factor when the 7800 was released in early '86; the NES hadn't been released nationwide by that point and the NYC test market in October '85 didn't go that well.

Does anybody REALLY know what happened? Nobody except Jack Tramiel and he is no longer with us (RIP)

[+swlovinist]

I am very curious about hearing more about the Nintendo doing poorly at NYC test market. If it did poorly, why did it get released Nationwide? Have any sources for this information?

[Rhomaios]

The NES wasn't much of a factor when the 7800 was released in early '86; the NES hadn't been released nationwide by that point and the NYC test market in October '85 didn't go that well.

 

I've never heard that the NES didn't do well in the NYC test market. On the contrary, they opened up new markets pretty soon afterward, and went national less than a year to great success. It is true, though, that the NES was only in NYC when the 7800 was released. I wonder if you're thinking of the 1984 Consumer Electronics Show, where it was received poorly.

[DracIsBack]

Any 7800 cart that displays copyright 1984 was used in the test market... and here is another link

 

http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Category:Atari_7800

 

the Atari 7800 was originally to be released in 1984 but Jack Tramiel decided agaisnt it because

 

1. he was not happy with the test market results and

 

2. the North American video game crash of 1983.

 

 

 

 

Not exactly. There was a contractual problem between Atari, GCC and Warner that had to be sorted out. Jack thought he had the rights to it, GCC felt they were owed money and there was debate over who owed GCC money.

 

The 7800 was re released in 1986 as an attempt to gain control of the video game market that was staring to be dominated by Nintendo with the NES console. albeit was a marketing failure.

 

 

This is one of the great video game myths. The NES was test marketed in 1985, but not widely available. Both the 7800 and the NES became widely available around the same time in North America, launched at the 1986 Consumer Electronics Show.

[DracIsBack]

I am very curious about hearing more about the Nintendo doing poorly at NYC test market. If it did poorly, why did it get released Nationwide? Have any sources for this information?

 

The NES had a couple of incarnations.

 

Famicom was in 1983 in summer of 1983 (while the 7800 was still being designed)

 

Nintendo tried the first time to repackage Famicom as the Nintendo Advanced Video System. It wasn't received.

 

Then they repackaged AVS as the NES and test marketed it

 

The NES didn't actually get widespread release in the North American market until 1986.

 

I used to believe the legend of the NES too, but it's reality is a bit different than the legend. Atari didn't outright ignore Nintendo when they came to offer the NES ... they couldn't come to contractual agreement. Atari didn't observe the sudden success of the NES when deciding to launch the 7800 ... as the NES itself wasn't widely available either when the 7800 rolled into full distribution. And they didn't suddenly dust off two year old technology to compete against the latest hot technology ... the Famicom was in Japan, in market, while the MARIA chip was still in the labs being finalized.

 

[Rhomaios]

^Yep, that's the March 1985 EGM issue discussing the events in 1984.

[Austin]

I am very curious about hearing more about the Nintendo doing poorly at NYC test market. If it did poorly, why did it get released Nationwide? Have any sources for this information?

 

Yeah, I was under the understanding that it did well in the NYC test market.

[ApolloBoy]

Here's Retro Rogue's post on the '85 NES test market: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/166993-atari-7800-forum-description/page-4?do=findComment&comment=2112785

[+swlovinist]

I too, think that there are two separate events being discussed here. The reception of the NES at 84-86 CES events(company feedback), and the NYC test market(consumer feedback). I was part of a panel at PRGE in which Howard Phillips showed up in 2012 discussing the changes to how the NES was marketed/showing a brochure of the early AVS design. Is there any data on the NYC test market, how big it was, and the public reception of the system.

 

[Jaynz]

It's no secret that in 1985, and even up through 1987, retailers were VERY skittish about having anything video-game related on their shelves. Remember, a lot of these retailers didn't understand that there was ANY difference between a Pong machine, the Atari 2600, and the NES. In their minds, they were all the same thing, and they had tons of unsold inventory from the "pre-crash" to get rid of - so of course they were less than enthused by the NES and 7800. Nintendo, however, did an amazing job of standing up for their machine and getting it into stores on their own expense... Atari.. did not.

Simple as all that, really.

[Lynxpro]

Had Atari Corp had the resources and marketing skills of Atari Inc - or had Morgan's NATCO restructuring happened - more of the retailers would've been more receptive to the 7800 then because since it played 2600 games, they could hope that some of that inventory clutter could be sold. The NES wasn't compatible so it was like adding insult to injury for the skiddish retailers. And there was also the anti-Japan backlash that was already happening in the US at the time which obviously didn't help Nintendo.

 

Chances are, had Atari Inc/NATCO survived and released the 7800 nationally, the AVS/NES would've been crushed in its infancy.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Lynxpro

[Jaynz]

The NES had a few powerful advantages, though. The Video Game crash didn't happen in Japan, so Nintendo wasn't nearly as cash-strapped as primarily-American players. By the time Nintendo wanted to push the NES to the states, they were on their third or fourth major wave of games, so they not only had a substantial back catalog, but one of new games that were already extending the system. The NES's major first hits were tied to the then-popular VS series of arcade games (Super Mario Bros was a major arcade hit first, remember), etc. Then, of course, the illegal trade practices with 3rd party developers...

Really there was no ONE magic issue that made the NES success and the 7800 fail. While it comes down to Atari not really stepping up like they needed, the truth is it would have taken quite a lot for Atari to just be /competitive/, much less win. They COULD have done it, but, ultimately, they didn't.

[Jet-X]

I wish I would have saved the newspaper ad from 1984, LA Times (might have been OC Register). There was a 1/8 size ad black and white either in Business or Arts/Entertainment section, and it advertised three things, two of which were related: newly released "Gremlins" for 2600/5200, a contest (with Gremilns I believe) to win $1,000, and limited quantities of Atari's "new" 7800 system. Featured box art from Gremlins, but 7800 was called out too (the system, not Gremlins)

Edited May 3, 2014 by Jet-X

[Greg2600]

Well I for one am thankful that the USA did get the NES. Sure would have hated to been given the 7800 for my birthday in 1988 instead of the NES.

[Jinks]

Well I for one am thankful that the USA did get the NES. Sure would have hated to been given the 7800 for my birthday in 1988 instead of the NES.

Why? Without the nes the 7800 woulda been awesome with tons of 3rd party support like the nes had.

[high voltage]

the day America gave away the video game industry to Japan, a sad day indeed.

[Jinks]

the day America gave away the video game industry to Japan, a sad day indeed.

I think north america in general gave away all technical manufacturing and industry to Asia. The 80s proved to kill everything we were proud to develop. Dont agree?? look at your tv and t shirt and think again. China china. I believe it is cheaply made mass produced crap. But no one cares. I remember soon own new york and laughing as a kid. But its all true. Edited May 3, 2014 by Jinks

[high voltage]

Any 7800 cart that displays copyright 1984 was used in the test market... and here is another link

 

http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Category:Atari_7800

 

 

the Atari 7800 was originally to be released in 1984 but Jack Tramiel decided agaisnt it because

 

1. he was not happy with the test market results and

 

2. the North American video game crash of 1983.

 

The 7800 was re released in 1986 as an attempt to gain control of the video game market that was staring to be dominated by Nintendo with the NES console. albeit was a marketing failure.

 

Crash = 1984

Edited May 3, 2014 by high voltage

[high voltage]

Does anybody REALLY know what happened? Nobody except Jack Tramiel and he is no longer with us (RIP)

Yes, just read the book, it's all documented (they have all paperwork to prove it)

 

Of course, the full story will be in the second book Atari Corp Business is war, it's all documented (original paperwork) facts

Edited May 3, 2014 by high voltage

[Greg2600]

Gave it to Japan? Not for nothing but a good portion of the arcade hits in the 80's were Japanese designed from Taito, Namco, Konami, Capcom, SNK, etc. Nobody was stopping American developers from doing good 3rd generation games. Most of them were computer game developers, which helped get the West back into the fray on the PS1 and afterwards. The failure vs. success of the 7800 or NES had little to do with that. The crippled Atari may well have gotten all the arcade ports the NES did had there been no Nintendo, but their marketing would never have been as pervasive as Nintendo's. The NES was a cultural monstrosity. If anything, without Nintendo, SEGA would have eventually come ashore with the Genesis and blew Atari into the sea regardless.