Controller What idiot at atari insisted for a keypad be added to the Jag controller?

[+xucaen]

. But I still thing that the number keypad is a relic of the late 1970s-early 1980s.

 

It most definitely is. But during that same time, PCs were becoming more powerful and PC games had full use of a keyboard. Having an additional 12 buttons on a console controller meant making games that could compete with PC games. Of course, in later years, we see console controllers with two analog sticks, d-pad, and 8 buttons - if Atari had replaced the number pad with two analog sticks, they would have nailed it. But hindsight is 20/20, as they say. Atari knew they needed more buttons, but no one really knew how to configure a console controller. Each console design across 20 years experimented with a different controller configuration. If you lined them all up on a timeline, the evolution of the console controller becomes clear.

[82-T/A]

I think the controllers are awesome... especially the Pro Controller.

[Felyx]

I still thing that the number keypad is a relic of the late 1970s-early 1980s. If they needed a key pad, they should have released it as a peripheral for possible online services.

 

What's wrong with you regarding the keypad?

It adds usefull possibilities that other systems just can't offer. For example, the keypad gives you the possibility to choose the weapon you want in Doom just by pressing a key: what other console is offering an as easy way for weapon selection?

 

The keypad idea may be old fashionned, it is good idea and it offers extra possibilities so why criticizing it?

 

If you look à Nintendo DS, it has cross, buttons...and a second screen to use like a touchpad: the technology is different but the need of extra buttons looks very similar...

Edited May 27, 2014 by Felyx

[Rick Dangerous]

As I packed up my jag paraphernalia this morning after last nights futile Rayman session, I though to myself that one thing they got right was the controller cord. It's nice and thick and has a pleasing texture to it. It's also reasonably long at like 6 or 7 feet. All Atari's previous controller cords were like 3 feet long, and even the N64's controller cord was only 5 feet or so, just a little on the short side. So maybe I'm the first person to get on the record saying great job on the controller cord Atari?

 

Obviously the pro controller should have been the launch controller. The SNES had shoulder buttons a few years earlier, and I believe Sega had already released the six-button genesis controller at that point. But the "it has enough buttons already" thinking sounds typical of American business culture in the 80's and early 90's...

[+xucaen]

As I packed up my jag paraphernalia this morning after last nights futile Rayman session, I though to myself that one thing they got right was the controller cord. It's nice and thick and has a pleasing texture to it. It's also reasonably long at like 6 or 7 feet. All Atari's previous controller cords were like 3 feet long, and even the N64's controller cord was only 5 feet or so, just a little on the short side. So maybe I'm the first person to get on the record saying great job on the controller cord Atari?

 

Obviously the pro controller should have been the launch controller. The SNES had shoulder buttons a few years earlier, and I believe Sega had already released the six-button genesis controller at that point. But the "it has enough buttons already" thinking sounds typical of American business culture in the 80's and early 90's...

 

 

It's interesting, I don't just play one game so leaving the console across the room isn't an option for me. I like to keep my consoles next to me so I can swap out cartridges so the extra long cord on the Jag controller doesn't help me.

 

But conversely, my Wii sits next to the TV and I stretch the Gamecube controller cable across the room... those games I play for longer...

[Bill Loguidice]

I've long maintained that the three button Jaguar gamepad is an ergonomic disaster, but for my money the six button pad is the best controller Atari made since the original Atari 2600 controllers. With that said, the controller was a non-factor in the Jaguar's success or lack thereof. The Jaguar's biggest problem was overpromising and underdelivering on the software front, particularly since what was promised from third parties never materialized (we can see something similar with the Wii U today, though obviously they're completely different levels of "fail").

[+xucaen]

Speaking of Wii U, I refuse to buy one. Even though the Wii U "supports" the wii remotes, just based on the fact that the Wii U is designed to use a tablet controller I feel betrayed by Nintendo. They sold me on the Wii Remote, then took it away. We wanted a better Wii, not a different Wii. A Wii with HD output, more memory, better storage, wii remote +. It's like Nintendo said "oh.. never mind, Forget everything we said before about being healthy and active and getting the whole family involved and getting off the couch and being active. Our bad."

 

/rant

[Rick Dangerous]

Wii U's not that bad, you should give it a go. I've hooked up a 2TB hard drive to mine and have a blast with it. I'll admit it's been collecting dust since I finished AC4 but Mario Karts coming out it a few days so that should be pretty rad. I have 3-4 friends that are waiting to get one just for SSB4...so that should be a real shot in the arm for the system. I've honestly been having more fun playing my 7800 and Jag recently, I think the Wii U will be my last new system. I really don't like the online only and DLC aspect of consoles these days. It kind of ruines the stand alone nature and thus point of the gaming medium for me.

 

On a side note I'd love to have some Jag Pro controllers. Too bad they are $100 dollars a pop! Just can't do it...

[Prosystemsearch]

 

What's wrong with you regarding the keypad?

It adds usefull possibilities that other systems just can't offer. For example, the keypad gives you the possibility to choose the weapon you want in Doom just by pressing a key: what other console is offering an as easy way for weapon selection?

 

The keypad idea may be old fashionned, it is good idea and it offers extra possibilities so why criticizing it?

 

If you look à Nintendo DS, it has cross, buttons...and a second screen to use like a touchpad: the technology is different but the need of extra buttons looks very similar...

Yes, but

>Still trying to defend the kepyad as being part of the controller.

I still think they should have released the keypad as a separate peripheral. :grin:

[high voltage]

Should have been a joystick

[Felyx]

I still think they should have released the keypad as a separate peipheral. :grin:

Weird: It is like complaining that the Jagpad is offering too much in standard.

Nothing against you but if the keypad had been optionnal it would have obliged the developpers to set 2 differents keys assignements up for each game: with and without keypad: quite messy for the final user and for what gain all in all? a smaller pad while the Jagpad doesn't suffer bad ergonomy?

 

I am not convinced this idea is reluctant.

Again, I can tell you what it adds and i don't see you insist to have it off.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Felyx

[Austin]

The keypad is fine. It proved to be useful, particularly for games like Iron Soldier and DOOM. The stock Jag controller's biggest issue was the lack of an extra row of three buttons (or a set of triggers), and a stiff directional pad.

 

I also don't think the keypad is a relic of a time past. The Nintendo DS and the Wii U both offer essentially the same functionality, albeit now with touch screens. It's a useful concept for the games that support it.

[+xucaen]

Should have been a joystick

 

[guiltl3ss]

I really enjoy the Jaguar controller. While I might like some bumper buttons (like L and R on SNES controller), the num pad is really nifty with the game inlays. Love it with doom to change weapons instead of Next/Back that most console ports make is deal with. Its fun and a nice throwback to Gen 2 systems.

[high voltage]

 

Should have been a joystick with a free girl with red nails

[Paul Westphal]

Nice cameltoe included.

[+xucaen]

That's the seam of the denim.

[racerx]

That's the seam of the denim.

 

[+xucaen]

just buy shirt and help me buy Rayman. O\

 

[Paul Westphal]

LOL!

[+slx]

I've long maintained that the three button Jaguar gamepad is an ergonomic disaster, but for my money the six button pad is the best controller Atari made since the original Atari 2600 controllers.

 

That's not much of a recommendation While the Atari VCS controller has become an icon of (retro-)videogaming, I don't think it's very good ergonomically. They were prone to break internally and Competition Pro, Wico and Suncom had much better and more "playable" products.

 

It is interesting, however, that the market for "better than included" third party controllers seems to have gone. I don't know of any such for the current consoles (but maybe I just don't follow the market closely enough).

[Bill Loguidice]

 

That's not much of a recommendation While the Atari VCS controller has become an icon of (retro-)videogaming, I don't think it's very good ergonomically. They were prone to break internally and Competition Pro, Wico and Suncom had much better and more "playable" products.

 

It is interesting, however, that the market for "better than included" third party controllers seems to have gone. I don't know of any such for the current consoles (but maybe I just don't follow the market closely enough).

 

 

It's certainly all relative, of course, but considering the time when the original 2600 joysticks were created and the fact that that design is still favored by a notable portion of the community I think makes the statement stand. It's flawed, but then most controller designs have some type of flaw. By the way, I never did like those other controller company designs you mentioned (though obviously we're talking a huge variety of products). My personal favorite has always been the Epyx 500XJ. Of course, some people hate microswitches, so there's no pleasing everyone (obvious statement is obvious).

 

You're right of course about third party alternatives for modern consoles. The reality is the first party stuff is so well built and so well engineered (can't imagine the budgets poured just into the controllers--it's probably more than the budgets for console production in the past) that it's hard to do better. Of course another factor in that control schemes are tied very specifically to all of the first party controller's layouts that, for the most part, all third parties can do is mimic the layouts and try and compete on price, negating any real need for the things. Certainly there are a few premium options, but for the most part, they're not needed.

[NeoGeoNinja]

I think, in hindsight, as irrelevant as it is to even forward this opinion, the stock Jaguar 3 button pad would have benefitted from the simple inclusion of shoulder buttons, at the very least (a la the 3DO).

 

In hyper hindsight, both machines could have used 4 face buttons and 2 shoulders as standard tbh, but as inclined, I do think shoulders on the 3DO were a nice inclusion that would have also been "nice" on the initial Jag controller too...

[+slx]

Having grown up with single-button joysticks I still find it hard to actually use that many buttons.....

 

I do agree that there was no "ultimate" joystick design as different types of stick were suited to different types of games. I remember selecting the best joystick for the game just as a golfer selects the best club for the situation. Leaf or microswitch joysticks were entirely unsuitable for games requiring quick repeated joystick action (like Shamus) while the TAC-2 I loved for that game was too twitchy for other games. (It's also interesting that the D-Pad is slower for repeated short taps in one direction than a conventional short-throw joystick but obviously the D-Pad (and/or thumb operated analog sticks) are a must-have if you need your right thumb to move between multiple buttons. A multi-button stick would indeed need a setup like the Epyx (which I really need to try now).

 

As for new controllers being perfected at an investment exceeding the development cost of the consoles of yesteryear, that's an interesting thought, but it also shows how far "evolved" gaming has become over three and a half decades.

[walter_J64bit]

The Jag game pad is for updated games from the colecovision, the Intellivision, the Atari 5200 or the Jag can emulate a calculator.