POKEY 7800 games that should have used the POKEY chip

[Prosystemsearch]

Some games in the 7800 that would have been better with the POKEY chip installed inside them: Xenophobe, Double Dragon, Planet smashers, Klax(unreleased) Plutos(unreleased), Mario Bros., and Mutant Mansion. ;-) Sad that Atari Corp, was too lazy and stingy to add them to more than just two games. :_(

[Lynxpro]

The correct answer is ALL OF THEM!

 

I still say GCC made up the whole excuse about not fitting the POKEY on the 7800 motherboard in order to sell Atari Inc. on bankrolling the development of GCC's Gumby audio chip and then selling it to Atari per 7800 cartridge.

 

It would've been interesting to have had 7800 cartridges with the AMY or PAULA sound chips included in them, but Atari Inc. would've had to have survived for that to have happened and it didn't.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Lynxpro

[Prosystemsearch]

If they couldn't have a built in POKEY chip, then they should have at least installed a Texas instruments chip for sound in the 7800.

[Prosystemsearch]

For the last one, I meant Midnight mutants. OOPS!! :P

[+wood_jl]

I like the "ALL OF THEM" answer.

 

But the TIA sound seems less "inadequate" to me over the years. Having gotten used to POKEY on the 400/800 and then NES sound - which to my untrained ear sounds similar enough - I thought the 7800 sound "sucked" back in the day. NOT ANYMORE. Console sound continued to improve (Super Nintendo being a rather large milestone) to the point that sounds aren't even "distinguishable" as coming from a game console. All sound is "so awesome" now that it's not unique. Thus, the retro "chip-tune" thing gained popularity in recent years, and I love that stuff. Likewise, I don't mind (and kind of like) the TIA sounds, as it's one of the sounds of my youth. Sometimes I'm impressed with what they did with what little they had to work with.

[Trebor]

When handled right, TIA sounds are not too shabby:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Y6vhLDN3dI

 

Worlds difference in the above compared to the original VCS DK sounds, or even the original 7800 DK.

Granted DK XM/PK having POKEY sounds the best, but the above Donkey Kong remake for the 2600 sounds really good in its own right.

[DracIsBack]

For the last one, I meant Midnight mutants. OOPS!! :P

 

Heh - Midnight Mutants is one I don't mind with TIA. I'm sure POKEY would have helped it, but they wisely chose a lot of lower toned music. I always felt TIA got annoying and screechy when up in the higher notes. For example, the theme from Tower Toppler.

[Lynxpro]

Well, properly done, all of the 7800 games could've had 6-channel sound from the start with TIA used for sound effects and POKEY used for music. That's the scheme Commando uses. And that would've all been possible had the POKEY been included standard within each 7800. Then as I said before, high-end games could've then used an AMY, PAULA, GUMBY YM2151, SID, whatever on a per-cartridge basis.

 

As with the recently found 7800 ProLine Joystick Coupler, or the High Score Cartridge before it, or the Keyboard or AtariLab accessories, we got shafted by Atari Corp failing to bring to market what it, Atari Inc. and GCC all paid to develop but never saw the light of day on retail shelves.

[Prosystemsearch]

Fun fact: GCC is behind the development of quantam, an arcade game.

[Lynxpro]

Fun fact: GCC is behind the development of quantam, an arcade game.

And Charlie Chuck's Food Fight, Crazy Otto/Ms Pac-Man, Super Missile Attack, the Zoom Button mods to Pac-Man and Ms Pac-Man, etc.

[Greg2600]

GCC had a "colorful" existance in gaming, given how they made their money at first by infringing copyrights with their arcade kits. Using TIA on the 7800 mainboard was only the start of the cost-cutting. The black and white/silver labels they slapped on their games was just as bad. Then again, could it have been explained as just being cheap during the test rollout in '84.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Greg2600

[Trebor]

The black and white/silver labels they slapped on their games was just as bad. Then again, could it have been explained as just being cheap during the test rollout in '84.

 

Actually, a full 1984 release would have provided carts with color labels. After the test rollout in 1984, is when they went to the cheaper labels with the re-release in '86.

The understanding is there are some carts out there with the color labels - but extremely few and (obviously) extremely rare.

 

[Greg2600]

I thought those were just prototype labels, never sold in retail? We know the Gumby was in development, any plans ever surfaced for a mainboard redesign? I just cannot fathom how any engineer or executive could think it was better to have a sound chip on each cart than just one on the main PCB. You'd be losing $ on every cartridge for something that couldn't have cost that much to put on the PCB.

[Prosystemsearch]

I wonder what prevented Tengen from releaing at least a few of their games on the 7800... They went the unlicensed route, so why not port Tengen tetris, Fantasy Zone, Vindicators, and afterburner to the 7800?? :spidey:

[Greg2600]

Probably wasn't enough money to be made.

[DracIsBack]

I wonder what prevented Tengen from releaing at least a few of their games on the 7800... They went the unlicensed route, so why not port Tengen tetris, Fantasy Zone, Vindicators, and afterburner to the 7800?? :spidey:

 

They struck a license deal with Atari Corp around the Lynx timeframe. This is why there are prototypes of Klax and Pit Fighter for the 7800 and allegedly a few other titles in the pipe

[Prosystemsearch]

 

They struck a license deal with Atari Corp around the Lynx timeframe. This is why there are prototypes of Klax and Pit Fighter for the 7800 and allegedly a few other titles in the pipe

I truly hope someday, that the 7800 Atari games versions of afterburner, tetris and fantasy zone are found. Ditto for the atari 7800 port of Skyfox.

[Jinks]

How can these roms be lost? Do the creaters of these games just delete there work? If they never got released would you not hold onto your game and one day stumble upon a 7800 forum to tell the world what you have? Or sit and eat ju jubes instead?

[DracIsBack]

How can these roms be lost? Do the creaters of these games just delete there work? If they never got released would you not hold onto your game and one day stumble upon a 7800 forum to tell the world what you have? Or sit and eat ju jubes instead?

In the past, prototypes have surfaced a few ways

 

1. Curt, through digging through old Atari equipment has been able to locate source code and compile it.

 

2. Unreleased prototypes have "come into the hands of someone willing to share". The key point is the term "willing to share". Someone has to be willing to pay for the prototype, which is often very expensive ... especially in the case where the Atari 7800 didn't have many. Then, they correspondingly have to be willing to share it with others.

 

Many prototype collectors have absolutely no interest in this whatsoever. They like exclusivity of having something no one else does and also don't want to see the value of their game drop in price.

 

For example, MISSING IN ACTION was showcased years before Mitch was kind enough to buy the game and make it available for everyone else. Klax was sold around again, years before Lee made a reproduction.

[Lynxpro]

 

They struck a license deal with Atari Corp around the Lynx timeframe. This is why there are prototypes of Klax and Pit Fighter for the 7800 and allegedly a few other titles in the pipe

 

Tengen - excuse me, Atari Games Corp - didn't like Atari Corp or the Tramiels. They considered themselves the "real" Atari and they really hated that they couldn't use the name except only in the arcades. What should've happened is that Atari Games Corp should've been given the rights to the 7800 when Warner and Tramiel couldn't come to quick terms as to which party had to pay GCC for the development and royalties. If I'm not mistaken, Marty [or Curt] stated Tramiel did want to immediately release the 7800 in late 1984 for $50 but GCC balked at that since it reduced their royalties per console sold. But to me, it was idiotic to release an "Atari" console in 1986 without securing the licensing rights to the "Atari" arcade hits of the time. I knew Atari Games was separate but when the 7800 was finally released, I naturally assumed Atari Corp had finally purchased that company and was going to go head on with Nintendo. Needless to say, I was blown away when "Tengen" appeared out of nowhere and released Gauntlet and RBI Baseball on the NES instead. And then I learned that no, Tramiel hadn't purchased Atari Games or licensed their titles. I so wanted Marble Madness, Gauntlet, Paperboy, and Roadblasters on my 7800.

 

What later happened was both Atari Corp and Atari Games put aside their animosity as both were suing Nintendo for damages and Steve Ross and his associates worked behind the scenes to repair their relations. Warner had repurchased Atari Games by then and they still had a 25% stake in Atari Corp and actually made advances to buy it in full in 1991 [right around the time they started also distributing EGM]. But alas, the Tramiels wouldn't sell.

 

At least with both companies working together, the Lynx was blessed with almost every single Atari Games arcade title ported to it [and some of us did badger Atari Corp about those titles on a near-weekly basis]. But alas, that didn't continue with the Jaguar. What should've happened was Tengen should've ported the titles themselves to the Jaguar instead of Atari Corp doing the work. There was also at that point a royalty dispute and Atari Corp had to grant so many shares to Atari Games to cover the back payments.

 

The B&W labeling on the 7800 cartridges was a Tramiel/Atari Corp thing. For the first two years, only the "Super Game" carts had colored labels.

 

 

 

There's quite a few 7800 games that weren't finished [or maybe they were]. Not as many as the Jaguar but still quite a few. Pit Fighter, AvP, Sirius, etc. I'm still wondering how Atari Corp missed the boat on MIDI Maze for the Lynx, especially with Bob Brodie hounding them to port it which they ignored and then BPS licensed it and ported it to all other non-Atari game systems as Faceball 2000. And then they make MIDI Maze for the XE Game System but fail to release it after they dropped support for the console. Why they didn't contact the XEGS owners via mail and offer to sell them those carts is beyond me. Then again, they did the same thing with the 7800. Selling Midnight Mutants, Ninja Golf, Alien Brigade, Plutos, Planet Smashers, and the like to the registered 7800 owners would've made more sense than "selling" them at a massive loss to O'Shea's mining pit of fun.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Lynxpro

[Greg2600]

I truly hope someday, that the 7800 Atari games versions of afterburner, tetris and fantasy zone are found. Ditto for the atari 7800 port of Skyfox.

 

Wow, didn't know those were even being worked on! I would imagine Afterburner would be horrible though, it was on every 8-bit system, too advanced for those. Heck it stunk on 16-bit too, too slow. Then again, see how horrible Pit Fighter was doesn't give me hope on the condition of other Atari Game 7800 protos! Ha ha.

 

Many prototype collectors have absolutely no interest in this whatsoever. They like exclusivity of having something no one else does and also don't want to see the value of their game drop in price.

 

For example, MISSING IN ACTION was showcased years before Mitch was kind enough to buy the game and make it available for everyone else. Klax was sold around again, years before Lee made a reproduction.

 

In this case, the prototypes Prosystemsearch asked for have never been found period. Even the ones which proto collectors hoard, others in the community know about them because they were alerted to their sale at some point. Most of the 7800 proto's though have been released.

 

 

Tengen - excuse me, Atari Games Corp - didn't like Atari Corp or the Tramiels. They considered themselves the "real" Atari and they really hated that they couldn't use the name except only in the arcades. What should've happened is that Atari Games Corp should've been given the rights to the 7800 when Warner and Tramiel couldn't come to quick terms as to which party had to pay GCC for the development and royalties. If I'm not mistaken, Marty [or Curt] stated Tramiel did want to immediately release the 7800 in late 1984 for $50 but GCC balked at that since it reduced their royalties per console sold. But to me, it was idiotic to release an "Atari" console in 1986 without securing the licensing rights to the "Atari" arcade hits of the time. I knew Atari Games was separate but when the 7800 was finally released, I naturally assumed Atari Corp had finally purchased that company and was going to go head on with Nintendo. Needless to say, I was blown away when "Tengen" appeared out of nowhere and released Gauntlet and RBI Baseball on the NES instead. And then I learned that no, Tramiel hadn't purchased Atari Games or licensed their titles. I so wanted Marble Madness, Gauntlet, Paperboy, and Roadblasters on my 7800.

 

What later happened was both Atari Corp and Atari Games put aside their animosity as both were suing Nintendo for damages and Steve Ross and his associates worked behind the scenes to repair their relations. Warner had repurchased Atari Games by then and they still had a 25% stake in Atari Corp and actually made advances to buy it in full in 1991 [right around the time they started also distributing EGM]. But alas, the Tramiels wouldn't sell.

 

At least with both companies working together, the Lynx was blessed with almost every single Atari Games arcade title ported to it [and some of us did badger Atari Corp about those titles on a near-weekly basis]. But alas, that didn't continue with the Jaguar. What should've happened was Tengen should've ported the titles themselves to the Jaguar instead of Atari Corp doing the work. There was also at that point a royalty dispute and Atari Corp had to grant so many shares to Atari Games to cover the back payments.

 

The B&W labeling on the 7800 cartridges was a Tramiel/Atari Corp thing. For the first two years, only the "Super Game" carts had colored labels.

 

There's quite a few 7800 games that weren't finished [or maybe they were]. Not as many as the Jaguar but still quite a few. Pit Fighter, AvP, Sirius, etc. I'm still wondering how Atari Corp missed the boat on MIDI Maze for the Lynx, especially with Bob Brodie hounding them to port it which they ignored and then BPS licensed it and ported it to all other non-Atari game systems as Faceball 2000. And then they make MIDI Maze for the XE Game System but fail to release it after they dropped support for the console. Why they didn't contact the XEGS owners via mail and offer to sell them those carts is beyond me. Then again, they did the same thing with the 7800. Selling Midnight Mutants, Ninja Golf, Alien Brigade, Plutos, Planet Smashers, and the like to the registered 7800 owners would've made more sense than "selling" them at a massive loss to O'Shea's mining pit of fun.

 

Wow, I love reading about drama! I agree, Atari Games had a much better knowledge and energy towards the console sector. I never got that Jack really cared too much about it. I am happy that they did resolve it for the Lynx. Great system.

[Lynxpro]

 

Wow, didn't know those were even being worked on! I would imagine Afterburner would be horrible though, it was on every 8-bit system, too advanced for those. Heck it stunk on 16-bit too, too slow. Then again, see how horrible Pit Fighter was doesn't give me hope on the condition of other Atari Game 7800 protos! Ha ha.

 

Wow, I love reading about drama! I agree, Atari Games had a much better knowledge and energy towards the console sector. I never got that Jack really cared too much about it. I am happy that they did resolve it for the Lynx. Great system.

I have to cast doubts on Atari - or Sega - porting Afterburner to the 7800 following their patent lawsuit which involved Sega becoming a minority investor in Atari Corp and cross licensing titles. That happened later so I could believe it if that title - and others were supposed to be ported to the Lynx [or the Jaguar].

 

When it comes to Tramiel, he had the option of buying Atari Games from Warner for an extra $10 million in promissory notes above the purchase price for Atari Consumer. $10 million. That's it. And they blew it.