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TMSS on a Model 1: Yes or No?

TMSS Model 1 Sound Quality Video Quality Rainbow Banding Capacitors

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#1 travistouchdown ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 8, 2014 8:05 AM

I am about to purchase a Sega Genesis Model 1.  My local plan n' trade has a few "High Definition Graphics" models available, and I have had them set aside a TMSS one and a non-TMSS one for me (I'm a good customer :)

 

What are peoples thought's on this?  Here is my take right now-

 

TMSS Model- Higher video/audio quality due to higher quality capacitors.  Downside being some games locked out...

 

Non-TMSS model: Will play all games, Dry capacitors can lead to rainbow banding and other picture/sound quality issues.

 

 

I'm thinking go with the TMSS model and if a few games are locked out, so be it, it will be worth the higher video/audio quality.  I'm thinking that's a cheaper option than replacing the capacitors on a non-TMSS model?

 

What are your thoughts?



#2 Rex Dart OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 8, 2014 8:08 AM

I don't see a problem with swapping  a few bucks worth of caps to have a superior console 



#3 travistouchdown ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 8, 2014 8:30 AM

I don't see a problem with swapping  a few bucks worth of caps to have a superior console 

 

I agree if it can be done for a reasonable price.  Does anyone know if anyone sells a complete genesis Cap kit? 

 

I wouldn't be doing it myself (local electronics hospital would) and I'm just worried about the labor....



#4 Rex Dart OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 8, 2014 8:46 PM

Does anyone know if anyone sells a complete genesis Cap kit? 

 

 

Console5 charges four bucks, but check the model # before you order.  


Edited by Rex Dart, Tue Jul 8, 2014 8:47 PM.


#5 iesposta OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 8, 2014 9:30 PM

+1 for Console5. I ordered various parts and a Vectrex cap kit from them.

I got my non-TMSS, recapped, from a member here.
Incredible sound. The bass is amazing.
The composite output is so terrible though I had to svideo mod it. A transistor a few resistors and a cap and it's quite good, but has slight vertical bars. It may be a resistor thing, I just never felt the need to tinker any more because it was so much better!
Then I went for the 10MHz overclock, but I don't see any differences. That is supposed to lessen slowdown like when sonic loses hundreds of rings.
Through the 32X, which I also svideo modded, it is perfect. The 32X has a better video circuit.
All the above mods cost nothing as I scrounged the parts from scrap I had.

#6 R.Bear OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 9, 2014 8:34 PM

Only the VA7 motherboard in the Model 1 has bad audio. I don't know about the composite video though as I use RGB SCART on all of my consoles, the TMSS and Non-TMSS consoles I have all seem to be the same quality wise.

 

Edit: Assuming you aren't unlucky and buy a console which has bad caps, anyway.

 

I've never found a game which doesn't work on TMSS models either, but I heard a couple of USA region games don't.



#7 Gentlegamer OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:27 PM

Non-TMSS has the best stock audio and video, except for the "rainbow banding" on some single-color backgrounds.



#8 thegoldenband OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:53 PM

The US-released games that don't work on TMSS models are Budokan, Ishido, Onslaught, Populous, and Zany Golf. The latter four can be made to work by using a Game Genie as a passthrough cart, but Budokan won't run on a TMSS Genesis no matter what. However, there's a European version that's been fixed.

 

In addition, there are a handful of Japanese games that don't comply with TMSS -- mostly launch versions of well-known titles, plus the strategy game Super Daisenryaku -- and also a bunch of Asian and Russian pirate games, only a few of which are worthwhile and language-accessible.

 

The usual wisdom is that the best Genesis to get is a Model 1 with "High Definition Graphics" and no TMSS, but as mentioned, it's really the VA7 motherboard that has sound problems. This guide goes into more detail, though the images are broken, and I also seem to remember that there was a problem with some (most?) VA2 Model 1 consoles only putting out one channel over the AV connector (i.e. putting out the R channel as mono, instead of summing L+R to mono).

 

For all the hand-wringing over this stuff, I personally use a Model 2 or Nomad 99% of the time. The Model 1 has great sound, but you can't get stereo out of the back of an unmodded Model 1, and I find that the headphone jack is prone to very loud popping on power on/off. The Nomad has excellent sound quality, and while the Model 2 sound quality is definitely subpar, if I use a 32X with my Model 2 the image quality is terrific (since the Model 2 sends RGB to the 32X, which has a superior composite encoder).

 

There's also a mod for the Model 2 to supposedly make it sound great, but I can't vouch for it, and some report that the modded sound is overly bright and trebly (which wouldn't surprise me). Also, late revisions of the Model 2 allegedly have much better sound quality, but again I can't vouch for that. 

 

BTW OP, if you need any Genesis games, let me know -- I have half-a-dozen CIB doubles of quality games, and they're surely not doing me any good just gathering dust. :)



#9 Torr OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:19 PM

All this talk of what revisions had what hardware and whats better... most of it goes so over my head...

 

One day though, I would like to get a 'good' Genesis System, whatever had the best guts, plus maybe a video mod and whatnot; the Genny IS the core of my retro gaming collection. I love it dearly.

 

..just have to find someone to do the work for me though or selling one off I guess...



#10 Rex Dart OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:48 PM

For all the hand-wringing over this stuff, I personally use a Model 2 or Nomad 99% of the time. The Model 1 has great sound, but you can't get stereo out of the back of an unmodded Model 1, and I find that the headphone jack is prone to very loud popping on power on/off. The Nomad has excellent sound quality, and while the Model 2 sound quality is definitely subpar, if I use a 32X with my Model 2 the image quality is terrific (since the Model 2 sends RGB to the 32X, which has a superior composite encoder).

 

 

Pretty sure the 32x pulls stereo sound through the cartridge port of a Model 1, bypassing yer complaints.  Also improves video, as you stated.



#11 Gentlegamer OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:51 PM

The best use of the 32X is to improve the audio and video of a Genny, it's like magic.



#12 travistouchdown ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:05 AM

The US-released games that don't work on TMSS models are Budokan, Ishido, Onslaught, Populous, and Zany Golf. The latter four can be made to work by using a Game Genie as a passthrough cart, but Budokan won't run on a TMSS Genesis no matter what. However, there's a European version that's been fixed.

 

 

BTW OP, if you need any Genesis games, let me know -- I have half-a-dozen CIB doubles of quality games, and they're surely not doing me any good just gathering dust. :)

 

Good to know!  I need to get a Game Genie then and I think I can live without Budokan :-D   Also I am just starting my Genesis collection so I will PM you about some of your doubles.  I currently only have a few games, though they are all in box with manual.

 

 

So I am happy to report I purchased a model 1 High Definition Graphics model that IS a TMSS machine.  I am very happy with it thus far.  The TMSS boot us screen is only a few seconds, by the time I sit down with the controller it's gone already.  The stereo sound from the headphone jack in the front is amazing.  I have it run through a Sony 700w surround sound amp with a 500w Athena subwoofer.  The sound is crisp, but also voluminous without being overly bassey.  It sounds amazing!  I am running it in stereo but with all 5 channels so it thumps!

 

The picture is also perfect.  No rainbow banding, distortion around the edges, color bleeding, etc, etc.  I have never seen a better looking genesis.  I think the only thing that would make it look better is doing an AV mod to get S-video.  I'd also love to get RCA stereo out of the back.

 

So I really can't say enough about the Model 1 High-Def TMSS model.  Maybe it's worth skipping a handful of games to not have to worry about the dry capacitors?

 

On that note, anyone know anyone who does Genesis mods right now? 

 

Cheers'

 

-Rick



#13 iesposta OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:43 AM

Pretty sure the 32x pulls stereo sound through the cartridge port of a Model 1, bypassing yer complaints.  Also improves video, as you stated.

Nope.
You even need a special cable to get the headphone stereo to the 32X. I just bought one.

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 110812008251

#14 travistouchdown ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:57 AM

Nope.
You even need a special cable to get the headphone stereo to the 32X. I just bought one.

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 110812008251

 

Wow that's awesome!  This would work on US Genesis no?  So a Genesis 2 cable (with video and stereo) comes out of 32x into receiver, the port to the left of the patch cable in the 32x?


Edited by travistouchdown, Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:58 AM.


#15 Yurkie OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:11 AM

I have 2 non TMSS Sega Genesis that I recapped and replaced the voltage regulators on. Takes some time replace the approximately 50 caps.

 

I personally prefer the Genesis Model 1 because that is what I had when I bought it new in '90 or '91.

 

I like the red button controllers too.



#16 R.Bear OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:43 PM

I have a large choice of which console I want to use when I fancy playing MD/Genesis, lol. I just ended up with so many of them from car boot sales and gifts.

 

One of the Genesis consoles and the "High Definition Graphics" PAL MD are Non-TMSS. All the others have TMSS.

 

I usually opt for the Japanese one when playing.

 

mdconsole_zps3af66e50.jpg



#17 iesposta OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:06 PM

Wow that's awesome!  This would work on US Genesis no?  So a Genesis 2 cable (with video and stereo) comes out of 32x into receiver, the port to the left of the patch cable in the 32x?

I did not get that particular ebay listing, it was just to show what I bought. Also I am in the U.S.
That will go from a Model 1 headphone jack and the rear (large) connector to a 32X input. Then the 32X output will have stereo out.
Yes a Genesis 2 A/V cable comes out the left port next to the patch cable.
You can still use the video from the 32X and the sound from the headphone jack to an amplifier, this cable just makes it neater.
I got the cable to replace one that I hade homemade, and since I have it S-Video from both, I have to use the headphone jack to the stereo until I get a Genesis 2 A/V cord.

#18 travistouchdown ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:34 PM

I did not get that particular ebay listing, it was just to show what I bought. Also I am in the U.S.
That will go from a Model 1 headphone jack and the rear (large) connector to a 32X input. Then the 32X output will have stereo out.
Yes a Genesis 2 A/V cable comes out the left port next to the patch cable.
You can still use the video from the 32X and the sound from the headphone jack to an amplifier, this cable just makes it neater.
I got the cable to replace one that I hade homemade, and since I have it S-Video from both, I have to use the headphone jack to the stereo until I get a Genesis 2 A/V cord.


Nice! Thanks for the tip I'll pick up this cable as a 32x is on my to get list in the short run. BTW lukie games has gen 2 av cables for like 5 bucks..

#19 Rex Dart OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 13, 2014 2:42 PM

Nope.
You even need a special cable to get the headphone stereo to the 32X.
 

 

Oh yeah, I had it backwards... it's the 32x audio that can be fed through the port to the Genesis, and then out the headphone jack.



#20 travistouchdown ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:59 AM

 

Oh yeah, I had it backwards... it's the 32x audio that can be fed through the port to the Genesis, and then out the headphone jack.

 

Worth doing though, especially for a model one with good sound?  I've heard the Sound Chip on the 32x isn't particularly great either....



#21 genesisguy OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:52 AM

I play my Genesis on a CRT TV through the TV's stock speakers.  I honestly couldn't tell the audio differences between the TMSS and NON-TMSS Model 1s.  I didn't like the rainbow banding and sold my NON-TMSS models.  I grew up with a TMSS VA6 non-high definition model.  I've picked up a few back up High Definition and Non-High Definition VA6 consoles as backups. 

 

As stated above as long as its not a VA7 you're good audio wise.   That said the VA7 outputs the best picture.  Then again, we are talking 24 year old technology and if your just playing it through a CRT TV you won't really pick up most of the differences.  We didn't when we were kids!



#22 IrishNinja OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:37 AM

OP are you gonna run it over composite?  sadly that looks like butt even on a stock non-TMSS unit, id actually say the 32X's composite is superior.  

 

seriously, if you can sort it out with your setup, i think the jump to RGB is the biggest for the Genesis (and maybe the NES) for all the systems.  S-video will do if you can get the mod, but it's still not quite there. 



#23 travistouchdown ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 3, 2014 8:04 AM

Picked up a Non-TMSS genesis yesterday.  Have to clean the ports but will report back with a TMSS vs. Non comparison.  I'm hoping to not have the rainbow banding problem.  Anyone know who sells Genesis Cap kits?



#24 Rex Dart OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 3, 2014 9:29 PM

 Anyone know who sells Genesis Cap kits?

 

Here.   :dunce:



#25 travistouchdown ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 4, 2014 9:21 AM

 

Here.   :dunce:

 

Derp. Should read my own thread. Lol..







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