Retro Gamer 132 Atari 7800 30 years anniversary

[high voltage]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's well worth getting the magazine.

Edited August 22, 2014 by high voltage

[+SabertoothRetro]

Thanks for posting this! It was a great way to kill my lunch break.

[Shawn]

Where can I buy a physical copy of this magazine please?

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

Where can I buy a physical copy of this magazine please?

Well where are you located? If USA or Canada your nearest big bookstore and hope they import it. it is a UK based magazine so it is more common in outlets there otherwise you would need a subscription.

 

http://www.retrogamer.net/

 

Or possibly Digital copy?

 

http://gb.zinio.com/www/browse/product.jsp;jsessionid=5B871AE803B2A7A7CB008ED5C80D75E2.prd-main-news3?offer=500416901&productId=500654829&bd=1&WT.mc_id=PUB_WWW_gb_500654829_publisher292618&rf=PUB_WWW_gb_500654829&_requestid=170341

[Rybags]

Nice but... an actual 7800 game instead of Space Invaders on the title pic would have been appropriate.

And some coverage of the more prominent modern-day homebrew titles.

Good at least that they mention the expansion/computer intent and modern day incarnation.

[Trebor]

A good choice of games to showcase especially in highlighting the exclusives. Midnight Mutants, Ninja Golf, Alien Brigade, and Scrapyard Dog does bring attention to what could have and should have been developed more on the system. Really a strong set of games, though particularly with Scrapyard Dog, not without faults and some fine tuning could have made them even better. You grab those and the Arcade classic game mentioned, Commando, and you really see just how good the 7800 can be despite having so much stacked against it regarding circumstance and (external) resources.

Loving that Crystal Quest, and Donkey Kong XM(/PK) is being provided some much deserved attention, along with also highlighting the well done Desert Falcon. A nice little bit of history and whirlwind events that surrounded the development and drama of the 7800. Really like Chuck's comment on the difference in comparison to and going from the XE as well.

Nonetheless, while it is fantastic to have such attention brought to the under appreciated and under utilized 7800, in addition to the system having such a special place in my heart, it would be less than honest to state that I'm not a tad bit disappointed by this article. There are quite a few glaring problems that could go as far as considerably marring an otherwise very good piece of writing and admiration.

As already mentioned, what the heck is up with not only placing an Atari 2600 game as the showcase piece in the console slot, but the text version? Yuck! Almost a near perfect match - for a heavy sixer - not for the Atari 7800. For whatever reason they decided (Let's presume giving attention to the backwards compatibility aspect) to feature '2600 space invaders', the least they could have done is used the graphic label variation.

The comparison chart is pretty bad. Especially with the 'facts' regarding the Sega Master System. Most fields are just flat out wrong. The processor is @3.58 not 4. The palette is 64 not 256. It can showcase normally 32 colors, but with some tricks/exception(s) there is a way to get all 64 on the screen at once. The memory of the Sega Master System has much more than just 8K. It has 8K ROM, 8K RAM and 16K Video RAM.

For all three systems the sound section is probably the worst area of all. While the article highlights several key members of the community who state, in effect, one of the worst parts of the 7800 is the lack of POKEY or/and just the inclusion of TIA, the chart makes it seem like not such a big deal when displaying:

7800 - 2 Channel Mono
NES - 5 Channel Mono
SMS - 3 Channel Mono

From the looks of it, some may think the 7800 having just one less channel than the SMS is not such a big deal...But the difference is worlds apart. The TIA vs SN76489 PSG is pretty substantial. Grouping all the systems as having mono sound and just listing number of channels, while in one light is not necessarily wrong, it really lacks in providing the reader a true[r] comparison of the sound difference.

Last but not least concerning the chart, the resolution section is a bit misleading too. Yes, the 7800 can pull off 320x240, but the chart should also provide the 160x240 spec, especially considering the majority of games developed for the 7800 use that 'easier to work with' resolution.

Wonderful to have Bob and Perry providing some input, I do appreciate Curt's insight too - even if the 'sell' is a little over the top. I'm a pretty big advocate on the 7800 being able to hold its own against the SMS and NES, especially when provided similar resources the other two platforms had at their disposal; however, to go as far as stating the 7800 is "a far better system when compared to [the NES and SMS]", I think may be 'a bit' of a stretch. I'm sold with "as good" or "just as good"..."far better" not so much.

And because my OCD insists on having a voice - for the love of everything good - couldn't the console have been cleaned a bit better for the photographs? The areas where the buttons reside looks pretty dirty - particularly the up close Power and Pause button shots...lol.

Regardless, thank you for sharing this high voltage. While a part of me appreciates the attention the 7800 is receiving as 'this year' marking the 30th Anniversary, there's another part which feels 2016 is more a 30th Anniversary for the system - or at least a 30th Anniversary Part II. With some luck and determination by the community, perhaps this "30th" celebration can stretch for three years of festivities (and beyond).

[Lynxpro]

The SMS details are a bit off but some sources do claim it has 256 colors. The American version of the SMS doesn't have the FM Synthesis chip - unlike the Japanese version - and it greatly improves SMS game audio. POKEY is great but even if it had been standard in all 7800s from the start, the SMS would've had the advantage. Now, if we were talking about the Dual or Quad POKEYs, or the AMY, they would've blown away the Japanese SMS in audio.

 

It's too bad Atari Corp didn't re-engineering the 7800 prior to the 1986 re-release. Had they re-engineered the motherboard, they could've added the POKEY and 64K DRAM. The price point of the SMS in that year proves that would've been economical, although 64K SRAM wouldn't have been possible at that price point.

 

The SMS would've been a lot more powerful had it had a fast 6502 instead of the Z80, IMHO.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Lynxpro

[Rybags]

64K Ram in any console of that time would be overkill. But 16K would have been nice for the 7800.

 

The fact it's SRAM is the killer - probably still 3x or more the price at the time.

But using DRAM would have compromised Maria - refresh cycles means less DMA slots available.

Plus, you need more interface electronics for DRam - which might have given reason to make more cuts elsewhere, although it's a somewhat minimal system to begin with.

[Trebor]

The SMS details are a bit off but some sources do claim it has 256 colors.

LOL...Then those sources would be inaccurate too.

 

64 colors is correct:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_game_console_palettes#Master_System

http://segaretro.org/Palette#Master_System_Palette

http://www.racketboy.com/retro/sega/sms/sega-master-system-101-a-beginners-guide

http://www.smspower.org/uploads/Development/msvdp-20021112.txt

 

Utilize actual system test(s) when in doubt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbgyFQaP1bo

 

The Sega Master System does have 256 horizontal pixels and a 256 byte sprite attribute table, that some may have mistakenly carried a 256 number over for the number of palette colors as well. Regardless, it's 64. The chart comparison facts overall should have been double (if not triple) checked for accuracy.

 

Most chart data for the SMS is incorrect:

 

Processor -> 4MHZ -> 'should be' 3.58MHZ

Memory -> 8K -> 'should be' 8K ROM, 8K RAM and 16K Video RAM

Palette -> 256 -> 'should be' 64

Colours -> 52 -> 'should be' 32 (64 with tricks)

 

Sprites comparison is also inaccurate as it is also 8 per the same horizontal scan line like the NES - which they specified for the 7800 and NES as being a "PER LINE" reference, but for the SMS it just lists "16" (Much like the way the memory of the system was also not broken down properly, although done so for the 7800 and NES). Again, there may be some further confusion from whatever was 'sourced' for the information, as there are max sprite sizes of 8x16 and 16x16.

 

Not even going back to rehash the 'blanket' description of mono sound channels comparison that was made.

 

That's some considerable amount of details being "a bit off"

 

The American version of the SMS doesn't have the FM Synthesis chip - unlike the Japanese version - and it greatly improves SMS game audio.

 

Absolutely...I didn't even go there as the numerous issues with the SMS specifics are pretty bad. Though still noteworthy, in addition to the aforementioned SN76489 PSG, the Mark III throws in a YM2413 FM. Inadvertently, it lends more support of why a Yamaha sound chip [YM2151] is appropriate to have for another third generation system, as being part of the XM module in making up the cartridge conglomerate hardware for the Atari 7800.

[Jinks]

How about lets just say its all good. Lots of other game fans constantly exaggerate on their choice systems specs. The article makes it look like a superstar. I knew it was already. Seems the tradition of atari equals crap from nes on still stands today. The poor atari cant even catch a break without being torn up.

The 30th multicart in the slot woulda made the most sense.

[Lost Dragon]

I was going to say, early looks at MS in UK press had it sdown as 64 colours (Newsfields Complete Computer Entertainment Guide Winter'89 etc) but...that's been covered....

 

The Tony Takoushi (Hot Gossip column in C+VG bage pages) brought back memories :-)

 

Tony's 'plea' was : 'Oh Atari! Please release this machine in the UK, do not deprive us of countless hours of happy zapping and racing....' but in same article he also pointed out how 'topsy turvy' UK console scene currently was, high prices UK NES/MS owners were looking at paying for games, plus said: 'If you all REALLY want Games Consoles, then write to Atari, Sega and Nintendo and tell them'.So he was pleading for UK to get back into consoles in a big way in effect, just was'nt happy with cart.prices.

 

Odd thing is, RG has covered the 7800 numerous times, numerous writers etc, yet no-one can seem to confirnm claim that a team of Ex-Imagine publishers had been contracted to produce 6 original games a year, for the 7800 by Atari.Anyone know any more ?

[Trebor]

The article makes it look like a superstar.

 

It does and rightly so.

 

Furthermore, it is in part the reason why I was disheartened by the inaccuracy of information presented for the SMS and the need for more transparency with the 7800 heavily utilized resolution (160x240), and sound specifics when being listed in some sort of comparison.

 

It's sloppy and may lead to naysayers shooting down the article due to the sheer amount of wrong data for the SMS (I.E. Can't trust the SMS data, what other/how much other information is inaccurate, etc.), overlooked sound details, and unmentioned 160x240 resolution in the chart. What would be (is) even more impressive (IMHO) is to state, take a look at Bentley Bear's Crystal Quest and Donkey Kong XM/PK graphics handled with just the 160x240 resolution mode of the console and you can see how powerful and versatile the MARIA chip is for the 7800 system.

 

If you were to start throwing all the/similar graphical assistance the NES had in support of its PPU towards the MARIA, you may very well end up with a 7800 console producing games that looks somewhere between a Sega Master System and a Turbo Grafx-16. Just imagine having the 'ease' of programming and available colors of the 160 mode(s) available to the 320 modes and perhaps even more features or/and enhancements on top of that. All/most games in 320x240 resolution with the color palette(s availability) of the 160 modes would truly resound Curt's comments of: "a far better system when compared to [the NES and SMS]",

 

Anyhow, I rather the article was presented without the chart comparison, or the chart included was well researched and accurate data presented for all systems. It would garnish more respect and a better reference point when it lists (factual) information, even on the competition.

 

And that damn console still needs a cleaning.

 

Nevertheless, glad to see it and hope for perhaps more articles/write-ups that focus on the 7800 without the need of bringing in the competition, or/and if the competition is brought in, the data presented is accurate.

[Lost Dragon]

:-( Whoops my bad, earlier i said claim was team of Ex-Imagine publishers contracted to do 6 original games a year, i meant of course PROGRAMMERS.1 coffee too many and not enough sleep a good mix does not make.

 

Seem to recal article quoting Raze as well as C+VG? Loved the mag, but i'd take it's 7800 claims with a dose of salt..'twas Raze who claimed Atari HAD 7800 Turrican showing (not planned to show) alongside other new titles at that Railway Carriage tour they had on/i mentioned few weeks back elsewhere on here.

 

And don't get me started on Zero+ACE claiming Bob Armour was busy at work on 7800 Gauntlet.....

 

Lot of UK mag claims from back in the day been proven to be rather wide of the mark.

 

:-)

[Lynxpro]

 

It does and rightly so.

 

It's sloppy and may lead to naysayers shooting down the article due to the sheer amount of wrong data for the SMS (I.E. Can't trust the SMS data, what other/how much other information is inaccurate, etc.), overlooked sound details, and unmentioned 160x240 resolution in the chart. What would be (is) even more impressive (IMHO) is to state, take a look at Bentley Bear's Crystal Quest and Donkey Kong XM/PK graphics handled with just the 160x240 resolution mode of the console and you can see how powerful and versatile the MARIA chip is for the 7800 system.

 

 

 

Well, what do you expect from The Laird? He'd have to spend time doing actual research instead of trying to sell freely available Jeff Minter Jaguar demos on CD-R through ePay.

[Lost Dragon]

Thing is when your using UK press claims to portray how hardware was percived by the media at the time, in interests of balance, you really need to look at 'follow up' articles.I've quoted the Hot Gossip column from C+VG, but when Paul Glancey looked at the hardware in 'Son Of VCS' he picked up on a good few points, regarding how the 15 games he tested, compared to current SMS/NES games (graphically) and said the 7800 titles 'don't compare that favourably with 8 bit console software such as SMB II or Wonderboy III'

And regards to resolution he talked of the Maria chip doing it's best to be as flexible as possible regarding the trade off between colour and screen resolution, so what sprites lacked in definition, they tried to make up for in colour etc.

Yet you read that comparison box-out in the RG feature and you could come away thinking 7800 games ran at a higher resolution than NES/MS games...

[Lost Dragon]

Speaking purely from the point of view as a magazine buying customer of more years than i care to recal, what i look for in 'look back' articles in ANY magazine i've paid a subscription for (EDGE/RG/GAMEStm etc) is good research, balanced look at the subject matter (i find it just as interesting to read up on what a hardware company got wrong with the hardware itself/support/marketing etc, as i do what they got right..) and accuracy when detailing things like tech.specs.Also if it's a UK publication looking back in time, i expect the article to reflect on how things were during the very era i grew up in.Yet i've read some very curious claims over how the NES did in the UK, why we had the 65XE, how the MS was unloved etc etc and so forth and it simply bore no realation to the time i lived through.

It's great to see increased Atari coverage after likes of Edge/Gamestm etc ignored it (and still seem to do) for so long, but it has to be accurate coverage for myself to continue subscribing.

[Trebor]

...the 7800 titles 'don't compare that favourably with 8 bit console software such as SMB II...

 

This would be where better/full research/reporting would have such an article also noting what was required in order for the NES to be able to display and run such a game when making comparisons against other platforms.

 

SMB II requires the MMC3 chip which includes providing the following add-ons to the base NES/Famicom console hardware:

 

-A scanline based IRQ counter to make split screen scrolling easier to perform (Assists with things like keeping the status bar motionless at the top or bottom of the screen while the playfield scrolls).

-Two selectable 8KB program ROM banks

-Two 2KB+four 1KB selectable character ROM banks.

 

To be fair, the last two items is comparable to bank-switching on the 7800.

The first item though - a scanline based IRQ counter - is a complete new feature/add-on to the NES PPU.

 

The additional cartridge memory for SMB II includes 128k for the program code and another 128k for character data - A total of 256k.

 

Give something equivalent/similar that benefits the MARIA graphics chip and provide 7800 game cartridges of that size, along with all the resources/developers/teams/support/etc. that Nintendo threw at its console, and it would have been incredible to see what additional titles/games the 7800 could of had developed and produced for it.

 

Even without any new features/add-ons to MARIA look at Bentley Bear's Crystal Quest including native parallax scrolling on many occasions. It does utilize bank switching; however, is only about half the memory size of SMB II...but I digress...

[Lost Dragon]

My comments on this article are meant as constructive feedback for future 7800 articles in ANY publication, but i had hoped for more in-depth research, espically seeing as how they'd put up a big VS/comparison box, i expected more on how the NES and MS were able to produce graphically 'superior' games and thus by reading up on the 7800, the reader would have had a deeper insight into the 8 Bit console hardware, in general.

 

I've said before RG magazine alone has covered the 7800 numerous times before, had different Freelancers pen various articles, each giving a personal aspect to the coverage, which is great, but after so many articles, i'm just somewhat surprised to see certain aspects still over-looked/claims from the day not looked into.

 

Re-treading existing material in follow-up articles has it's place, after all article has to be aimed at the 1st time reader, but i personally feel it should also go some way to cover that ground in more depth and offer fresh information previous articles had'nt.

[Lost Dragon]

I'm sorry but (and i quote): 'He (Tony Takoushi) BEMOANED Atari's decision to go with the XE Range'....

Ok then:Bemoaned definition, to express distress or grief over; lament: to bemoan one's fate....

What Tony ACTUALLY said was nothing more than state a simple fact.Quote from the C+VG article itself:

'Atari has changed their plan to release the 7800 in the UK, they have opted for the 65XE computer instead'.

There, nice simple statement from Tony bringing the readers up to speed with Atari UK's then plans.He never expressed any form of grief or emotion over the change in plans, he kept the emotion side for praising the hardware, saying it was doing things (on games like Robotron) he'd yet to see on any other home console.

Tony was a big fan of the A8 micro, referenced it a few times in his columns, said his personal preferences were the C64, Atari XL and MSX, XL deserved respect because of it's superb hardware.

[+GoldenWheels]

How many originally released 7800 games were exclusives? I know I could just look at the master list but there are better memories and knowledge bases here than my own.

 

Plus I'm lazy.

[keitaro]

It's great see an article about Atari 7800 in RG and covering homebrew scene.

 

About 7800 exclusives, they could be:

 

Motor Psycho
Alien Brigade
Planet smashers
Ninja Golf
Meltdown
Midnight Mutants

Scrapyard Dog has a Lynx version.

Maybe: Mat mania challenge, is a poor conversion of Mat Mania, but I don't sure if there conversions to c64 or NES.

 

Froggo:
Water ski
Tank command

Protos:
Plutos (There's another Plutos but I think is a different one).
Sirius.

[+GoldenWheels]

Thanks Keitaro! First one I thought of outside of the "Top 5" in the magazine list was Crack'ed...I google it and there was an ST version. I gave up right there!

[Lost Dragon]

Re-Reading the article, again i'm sorry but what's reported as 'Fact' simply is'nt true:

 

'Initally no plans to release 7800 in Europe' says the article....

 

Press at the time (winter 1986) were reporting that Atari were planning to unviel the 7800 for it's UK Launch at the Christmas Atari Show in the Royal Horticultral Hall, Westminster, London, where it would be the centerpiece of the show, expected UK launch price £69.95, lot of USA software and some UK titles ready for UK launch.

 

Yes Atari then changed it's plans after Atari UK convinced Atari USA a machine that could play Carts, tapes and Disks was far better suited to the UK market, but to say there were NO plans initally to launch 7800 in Europe is incorrect.Article should have pointed out inital plans were changed.

[Lost Dragon]

The article talks of 7800 selling well in UK+Europe, then references Raze magazine with Atari's claim that according to a Mintel report it held 50% of UK console market.Here's actual quote from said mag in more detail:

'Atari often quotes a Mintel report that states the 7800, together with it's older brother, the 2600 accounts for around 50% of the UK Console Market'.

 

So again a magazine quote is used, but not in full and thus does'nt give a true picture.The Atari claim was 'around' 50% and they did'nt break down that vague 50% into specific market share between the 2600 and 7800, so it gives no idea of just how well the 7800 sold in UK at that time.

Atari UK alway's seemed to give 'best guess' type estimates on how many A8's, ST's, Lynxes etc were in UK homes, but if your going to use a quote to get across a point, i'd rather it was used in full and in context, be it from Raze, C+VG or who ever, otherwise, don't use it.

[PacManPlus]

I'm *still* trying to get my hands on this issue. Every place I go only has the prior one (131) and I just checked yesterday. :-/