fibrewire Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I got a moment to speak with Kathy Forte, who in 1980 worked as the lead developer of a relational database for the Atari 800. This was in the Home Computer Division when Roger Badertscher was president. There were five people designing and coding the product, but the software never made it to market. This project predates the RDBMS/AT in BASIC by Allen Leigh by at least 5 years, and dispels doubt about a real database application running on the 8-bit Atari. Who here has questions for Kathy? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr SQL Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 This is really interesting! Plenty of Hierarchical Databases for the 8-bits but never heard of an RDBMS, can you post more info about it? I'd also like to hear more about the project by Allen Leigh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilmoo Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 What was the target market for this product? What kind of challenges did you face working in such a small memory area? Were there any specific things you remember learning while working on the Atari that you took on to other products? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fibrewire Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 The Allen Leigh project is lost, but there is still some info here: http://www.megalextoria.com/forum2/index.php?t=msg&goto=112062& 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXG/MNX Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Would be awesome if someday a copy pops up just to see what it looks like. I always thought such databases should exist in A8, but never found one. Today with all the fast and big memory and storage it would be awesome if someone could build such project to up-to-date hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Interesting. MK-Soft had one RDB running back in 1985... The impressive thing was that it really was fast, compared to "other" computers. Written in compiled PASCAL , the Screen had to be turned of while the sorting algorithm was working, and the storing device was -ofcourse- a (several) 1050 . It's been used for storing the music Titles on cassettes with the side and tape-counter, to find them again. It's btw. one of those "hooks" that won't let me drop the A8. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricortes Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Not to drift to much, I found the HomePak database kind of cute circa 1984. It's isn't exactly Google Search of course. It works OK within the limits of an 8 bit. It's easy to build a data base like who lives where and what characteristics they have i.e. male/female, birthday, what computer they use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Recently I did a bit of design work for a small DB system on the Atari, using xBIOS. I didn't start coding, but I had the ideas there. I reckon that it could be coded in a very small amount of space. The last thing that I was trying to consider was how to get it running equally whether the DB was in memory or on disk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 (edited) Not to drift to much, I found the HomePak database kind of cute circa 1984. It's isn't exactly Google Search of course. It works OK within the limits of an 8 bit. It's easy to build a data base like who lives where and what characteristics they have i.e. male/female, birthday, what computer they use. I don't know if Synapse 'Synfile' is a relational db. I still have it, never used it. The spreadsheet, 'Visicalc', I used a lot to keep my class grades. I used 'PCFILE' on the DOS PC for when I got around to keeping an address/phone database. Still use PCFILE in DOSBOX. Edited September 1, 2014 by russg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+slx Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 As far as I remember SynFile is not relational. I think it can index more than one field but is more of a "flat file" database. I used Data Perfect which was much faster by keeping records in memory and searching in RAM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnharmon Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) I think we may be in luck here. Just need to get an SIO2SD so I can create disk images and upload it. Edited February 25, 2019 by jnharmon 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 I think we may be in luck here. Just need to get an SIO2SD so I can create disk images and upload it. An alternative way is if you have a blank disk you can copy it (assuming there is no copy-protection; probably not) and send the copy to one of us with an SIO2SD, we can make an ATR of it. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnharmon Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 If anyone wants to volunteer to receive a copy of this disk and post the images, I'm happy to send it if you provide a mailing address. It's two sided, the front has the main files (the .V1 files are LISTed Atari Basic code), and the documentation is on the back. -Jason An alternative way is if you have a blank disk you can copy it (assuming there is no copy-protection; probably not) and send the copy to one of us with an SIO2SD, we can make an ATR of it. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 I am sending you a Private message. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillek Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Whereabouts are you located? There might be someone close to you so that you don't have to risk mailing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnharmon Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) Allan has offered to make disk images and post them here. Don't worry, I'm sending him copies of this original disk and the original will be kept safe.I never imagined that a box of old "disk of the month" disks from my days at Frederick Atari Computer Enthusiasts held a long lost item people were interested in. -Jason Whereabouts are you located? There might be someone close to you so that you don't have to risk mailing it. Edited February 25, 2019 by jnharmon 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 It would be great if all of the other disks are all eventually imaged/archived as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 That's what most folks don't realize, everybody has something in that pile of 'old disks' be it something to verify against the rest, a different revision or version, or simply a piece of software we simply don't have or sometimes didn't know existed, sometimes it's just a file, one program on a disk full of school work or bbs downloads etc that makes all the difference. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Allan has offered to make disk images and post them here. Don't worry, I'm sending him copies of this original disk and the original will be kept safe. I never imagined that a box of old "disk of the month" disks from my days at Frederick Atari Computer Enthusiasts held a long lost item people were interested in. -Jason Please copy the rest of your disks as well. There could be some other jems in there. Allan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckybuck Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Great to read, thank you all! BTW, recently we got AUSTRO.BASE, not sure, whether it is relational or not. But great to have such a program! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnharmon Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 (edited) With a big thanks to Allan for transferring my disks to images, here is Allen Leigh's RDBMS project. The programs are in LISTed BASIC format. The Allen Leigh project is lost, but there is still some info here:http://www.megalextoria.com/forum2/index.php?t=msg&goto=112062& Would be awesome if someday a copy pops up just to see what it looks like. I always thought such databases should exist in A8, but never found one. Today with all the fast and big memory and storage it would be awesome if someone could build such project to up-to-date hardware. RDBMS_A.atr RDBMS_B_Docs.atr Edited March 6, 2019 by jnharmon 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 It would be interesting to see this ported to all the other fast basic solutions out there today. Now that would interesting and really give the newer faster basics some traction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 (edited) Interesting. MK-Soft had one RDB running back in 1985... The impressive thing was that it really was fast, compared to "other" computers. Written in compiled PASCAL , the Screen had to be turned of while the sorting algorithm was working, and the storing device was -ofcourse- a (several) 1050 . It's been used for storing the music Titles on cassettes with the side and tape-counter, to find them again. It's btw. one of those "hooks" that won't let me drop the A8. sounds like you have a copy, did you place it here or is it located some where for download? the search still continues for the DataBase that Kathy mentioned... Edited March 7, 2019 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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