question about tt upgrade 68060?

[TXG/MNX]

Hello I did talk with Rudolph the maker of the CT63 if he would consider making a speeder like that for the TT030.

 

He is willing to do the project IF het can do 100 boards.

 

The main issue is that TOS needs to be patched. Didier doesnot be around anymore to do this so is there anyone wjo could patch TOS for such project?

Would it be possible to use EMUTOS maybe?

 

Just like to know who would be interested and maybe could help.

 

When people are serious we maybe could raise $$$ in a kickstarter project?

[+DarkLord]

This was attempted some time ago, (and the subject seems to come up

every so often) and for some reason (which seems odd to me) they could

not reach that 100 board number. They just could not seem to get enough

TT owners interested. I think Doc Clu was a part of this effort, maybe we

can get him in this message thread.

 

I wish you luck though - I'm sure a lot of people would like to see this

happen. Any add-ons/projects for Atari computers is always a good

thing.

 

BTW, what happened to Didier?

[lp060]

Fredi at Medusa already did 040/060 patches for TOS 3.06 a long time ago, that's what the Hades used aka TOS v3.06m (m for Medusa I assume). The source code to his patches was even on his web page at one point in time. The source code can also be found on some of the original disks Fredi shipped with the machines.

[dark willow]

I'd *love* to see this happen. As has been said, it's been raised before but getting enough orders seems to be the issue. I find it hard to imagine we can't get 100 TT users interested. If the project actually happens, I would be down for one unit.

 

One thing that would need to be addressed is the different versions of the TT. Early TT's (including mine) have a daughter-board for the CPU, as well as not conflicting with installed VME cards. I'm not sure how much this could complicate a TT variant CT-60. Despite both being 030 machines, the TT are quite different in terms of architecture, so I don't think this would be a trivial project.

[dark willow]

Further thoughts on this, just stream of conciousness really... Unlike the Falcon, the TT has some other areas which hog-tie it sufficiently that for an 060 board to be useful would pretty much have to be addressed as part of the upgrade.

 

* Video. Unlike the videl, the TT's built in video modes are pretty much fixed, and would cripple most applications which would benefit most from 060, including multi-tasking. Most 060 buyers probably have a VME gfx card, but not all, and many cards are themselves quite slow. Given the space inside the TT, including a PCI slot for a Radeon, or perhaps having an FPGAed upgraded virtual TT shifter chip on board would be pretty much essential to make use of the accelerated system.

 

* IDE. SCSI storage solutions are increasingly old and hard to find. IDE (rather than a straight to CF or SD interface) allows people the option of adding a range of modern options, from IDE HDs, CF, SD, CD/DVD or whatever they wish.

 

* Improved cooler support. IIRC the Falcon CT-60s often had heating issues. A new 68060 board really would benefit from being layed out in such a way as to have better support for modern coolers, poss. including liquid-coolers, as well as improved temperature sensing.

[lp060]

I'd rather drop money on a proper 68k clone that runs 60mhz. I can't see such an add-on being plug&play for a TT. There's plenty of clones going around, but everyone's messing around with 8 or 16mhz. Those seem pointless to me, but then I don't play games or watch demos. If you have a TT, you probably aren't playing many games or watching to many demos anyway. Maybe such an FPGA chip is still too cost prohibitive. I don't know enough about FPGA to be able to determine which chip would be up to that task. Doesn't stop me from dreaming though.

Edited September 17, 2014 by lp060

[dark willow]

I'd rather drop money on a proper 68k clone that runs 60mhz. I can't see such an add-on being plug&play for a TT. There's plenty of clones going around, but everyone's messing around with 8 or 16mhz. Those seem pointless to me, but then I don't play games or watch demos. If you have a TT, you probably aren't playing many games or watching to many demos anyway. Maybe such an FPGA chip is still too cost prohibitive. I don't know enough about FPGA to be able to determine which chip would be up to that task. Doesn't stop me from dreaming though.

 

Personally, I'd rather have a plain vanilla accelerator, as I already have a decent gfx card and SCSI reader, but I'm not sure if others would (if it actually happened, I imagine they'd be a muddy compromise like the original ct-60, basic accelerator with an expansion bus for more add ons). As for making it PnP, maybe include a complete patched TOS (alongside a legacy TOS) on ROM chips?

 

I think a clone wouldn't make it due to competition with the Firebee and price level. I doubt you could get a clone out the door for <€500, whereas an accelerator would be ~€300 (probabaly), so the market would be tiny (people who are willing to spend €500, *and* who dont want/already have a firebee). You could lower costs by dumping legacy support, but that would erode the pool of buyers too... tricky!

[lp060]

 

Personally, I'd rather have a plain vanilla accelerator, as I already have a decent gfx card and SCSI reader, but I'm not sure if others would (if it actually happened, I imagine they'd be a muddy compromise like the original ct-60, basic accelerator with an expansion bus for more add ons). As for making it PnP, maybe include a complete patched TOS (alongside a legacy TOS) on ROM chips?

 

I think a clone wouldn't make it due to competition with the Firebee and price level. I doubt you could get a clone out the door for <€500, whereas an accelerator would be ~€300 (probabaly), so the market would be tiny (people who are willing to spend €500, *and* who dont want/already have a firebee). You could lower costs by dumping legacy support, but that would erode the pool of buyers too... tricky!

 

PnP to me means solder-less and hacking up my good TT is not an option. I'd have to add the cost of the add-on plus another spare TT. As was pointed out the video would not be that great, so if the add-on had slots, then you're adding a video card again. I also don't see all this fitting inside the case.

 

I don't find the coldfire all that appealing, especially when it comes to older software and that's mostly what we got. I am not interested in coldfire at any cost and you have to wonder how many others think the same way. There may be a market for a proper fast 68k based clone, finding out is the trick.

[dark willow]

 

PnP to me means solder-less and hacking up my good TT is not an option. I'd have to add the cost of the add-on plus another spare TT. As was pointed out the video would not be that great, so if the add-on had slots, then you're adding a video card again. I also don't see all this fitting inside the case.

 

I don't find the coldfire all that appealing, especially when it comes to older software and that's mostly what we got. I am not interested in coldfire at any cost and you have to wonder how many others think the same way. There may be a market for a proper fast 68k based clone, finding out is the trick.

 

Ah I see what you mean. I'd like to use it on my current TT rather than get a new one, if only because of space/cost/availability. My motherboard is the old first revision one with a daughtercboard for the CPU, so I'm not sure how the CPU is mounted on later boards. Could the VME be used? I remember reading somewhere that the VME bus is basically just a breakout interface the 68k CPU pins.

 

Actually, since you ported GFA Basic to the Coldfire, I think quite a few more people are now considering it I must admit, the lack of support for it was my initial reason for hesitating... Now, I've pretty much felt that with the amount (not enough) and sort of things I do with the TT (older productivity apps and "hello world" level programming) don't really justify €700 for a new Firebee. I get that the sort of hardware they designed can't be done for nothing, it's just I personally don't think I'd make enough use of the extra power to make it worthwhile in my case.

 

Plus I'm shamelessly nostalgic about my TT and keeping original hardware going, ideally with a bit more get up and go.

[frank.lukas]

You must communicate that on all Atari forums ...

 

-> atari-forum.com and atari-home.de

 

 

To find hundred User is hard, I think !

[TXG/MNX]

to bad... I heard the ct63 has become populair there is even a new batch planned.

[doctorclu]

Well folks, here is the thread I worked on in 2007. I no longer own a TT030 personally, but who knows, it was a great machine, maybe I'll fix another one up. Or maybe I'll just buy one to sell later.

 

Anyway, here is the list of the 57 people we found in 2007. Contact them and see if they are still interested/still alive and go from there would be my suggestion.

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/100686-the-50-tt030-users-for-the-ct60/?hl=+ct63+tt030

[Dal_1978]

If it was VME based AND included a high res video out, then I'd be up for one. Heck, even if it can't fit in the VME slot, I'd settle for it being external like the Nova was.

 

Good luck finding another 99 people and 100 060's.

 

Rodolphe would probably be best working with the Nature Brothers or Lotharek, set up a registration page and announce it on Atari-Forum.com, Atari-Home.de, here and DHS.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Dal_1978

[alienkidmj12]

yeah id love one i guess im another number on that list

On 9/23/2014 at 9:44 PM, Dal_1978 said:

yeah, id be interested

 

 

If it was VME based AND included a high res video out, then I'd be up for one. Heck, even if it can't fit in the VME slot, I'd settle for it being external like the Nova was.

 

Good luck finding another 99 people and 100 060's.

 

Rodolphe would probably be best working with the Nature Brothers or Lotharek, set up a registration page and announce it on Atari-Forum.com, Atari-Home.de, here and DHS.

 

[Cyprian]

would be cool to have a decent TT accelerator

 

[Cyprian]

...

[doctorclu]

Found this interesting.   Thought the developer finally ponied up on making an accelerator when interest was established (as was his challenge, which I met).

 

Great times.   Anyway, hope this happens at some point.