Atari 400/800 - The Chip Disk Backup/Developmet System by Spartan

[elkingkong]

Does anyone know the value of the this disk? I've tryed looking it up but the only thing I get is a PDF at AtariMania.

 

Included The Archiver/Editor Program.

 

Thanks,

[BillC]

Does anyone know the value of the this disk? I've tryed looking it up but the only thing I get is a PDF at AtariMania.

 

Included The Archiver/Editor Program.

 

Thanks,

Being an original disk will give it some value, but B&C/myatari.com still list the hardware, I would think the software would also be included.

810 Archiver is a technical tool for analysing disk errors, diskformats and copy protection. It allows backup of most copyprotected software.

ACA013   PCB 810 ARCHIVE W/SIDE          39.95         Turns a stock 810 into a Archiver 810

[elkingkong]

Thats for the fast reply.

 

Is that the price that the website is trying to sell it or how much they paid for it? Its hard to make sense of that website.

[BillC]

Thats for the fast reply.

 

Is that the price that the website is trying to sell it or how much they paid for it? Its hard to make sense of that website.

The prices given are what products sell for. Since Bruce is one of the few remaining suppliers of Atari hardware, and he also sells through eBay, he doesn't have much incentive to update his website.

[Rybags]

A lot of this sort of stuff is NOS - probably aquired when it was considered obsolete for a fraction of normal retail at the time, which for the device + disk was probably about double or more that price.

 

These days 810 isn't that popular for modding, people still upgrade 1050 and XF551 drives. If you've got the whole kit including board then I'd guess $30-$35 if someone wants it.

The disk on it's own isn't a great deal of use. Unsure if it was protected to the point where it couldn't be copied itself (like some Happy stuff) but kind of doubt it. But if it is a disk that's very hard to copy then it'd increase the potential value.

Of course you still need someone who wants it, but this is probably the best place to find them.

[elkingkong]

Cool, good to know.

[Mclaneinc]

I always get a little sad when people come on to ask what something is worth, its nothing personal OP, I'll explain why. As a one time mega collector of 8bit / 16bit computers who lost (no financial gain) all his stuff through ultra sad reasons with no possible way bar a lottery win to get it all back, and even then the proto computer house board will never be seen again as it was put in a skip, I would just love to have it all back, I'd never sell it by choice.

 

Each to their own obviously and good luck to people making a living from it but I just love to have the stuff and fire it all up once in a while..

 

As for the Archiver, preferred the Happy but do remember the fun of opening the 810 to slow the write down by adjusting a pot that you needed for some sectors...

 

Fun times.......I remember when a certain pirate who worked for Taito for a short while was using their stock to write out hundreds and hundreds of Archiver chips, so many of the folk in the UK who got a copied Archiver chip, it most likely came from Taito the Arcade people

 

Naughty but true..

[+Larry]

The disk by itself is essentially worthless, unless accompanied by the hardware that allows it to work.

 

Unfortunately for Spartan Software, folks quickly discovered that they could make a "DIY" chip system that worked just like the original hardware. Several folks at our users' group had these. Spartan also produced a version of the Archiver/Editor software for the 810 Happy. It would copy some stuff that the 810 Happy could not copy at the time. At some point, CSS got into the act and created the Super Archiver and the 1050 Happy Archiver. At last check, the rights to these products belongs to Bruce at B&C.

 

-Larry

[elkingkong]

I always get a little sad when people come on to ask what something is worth, its nothing personal OP, I'll explain why. As a one time mega collector of 8bit / 16bit computers who lost (no financial gain) all his stuff through ultra sad reasons with no possible way bar a lottery win to get it all back, and even then the proto computer house board will never be seen again as it was put in a skip, I would just love to have it all back, I'd never sell it by choice.

 

Each to their own obviously and good luck to people making a living from it but I just love to have the stuff and fire it all up once in a while..

 

As for the Archiver, preferred the Happy but do remember the fun of opening the 810 to slow the write down by adjusting a pot that you needed for some sectors...

 

Fun times.......I remember when a certain pirate who worked for Taito for a short while was using their stock to write out hundreds and hundreds of Archiver chips, so many of the folk in the UK who got a copied Archiver chip, it most likely came from Taito the Arcade people

 

Naughty but true..

I resell for a living and I specialize in video games. I know some people that consider that distastfull, especialy some of the hardcore collectors. But the way I see it, is that I too am a collector, except that I am willing to let go of my collection faster than most . If I didn't buy and sell, I would not have half the knowlege of video games that I do now and that would be sad .

 

As far as losing your collection, I trully am sorry. But as long as you're not 6 feet under then you have everthing, even the possiblility of having a better collection.

[Mclaneinc]

Well I'm glad its working for you and you are giving other collectors to have the chance to own stuff so its all good.

 

Best of luck to you.

 

Paul.

[bandit]

 

If you have the chip (2732) with your Spartan ,I would say a collector would like to have it.

 

The one B&C sells (bruce) is just an eprom already mounted on the side board, a couple trace

cuts and jumpers. The Chip spread like wild flowers which was sad for spartan, People had upto

4 drives with copyed chips, It would be hard to find a complete package I think.

 

So if you bought the one from B&C you would not get the package you have. BUT if you do not have

the chip in the package, it would not be worth as much.

[bbking67]

Is Spartan Software where Mike Gustafson of ICD came from?

[+Larry]

Yes. He was an amazing coder, I'm told. He (supposedly) could look at Atascii symbols and disassemble it in his head. Whoa!

 

-Larry

[elkingkong]

Unfortunitly, I dont have the chip.

[tep392]

I just found this thread. I bought this a few days ago on Ebay from the OP it looks like. Paid less than asking price but probably still too much. But it's worth it to me to have the original documentation and disk to go along with my 810 Archiver. I'm happy.

 

And to address the copyability of the original disk, the documentation suggests making a backup copy and storing the original. It already came with a backup so I havn't tested it to see if the archiver is actually needed to copy itself. But I'll give it a try later for fun.

 

One thing I learned from the docs is that there is more than one way to activate or "open" the chip for using the Archiver s/w. I've been using the open (O) command and entering the 4 digit code for my chip from the Archiver menu. But there is a simpler way which is to insert the disk and then turn on the drive. The disk will spin a little and then stop. The chip firmware has just checked for the Archiver disk and opened itself. Then turn on the computer to boot the disk. But this process scares me a bit. I've read that you don't want to power on the drive with a disk inserted because it can corrupt the disk. I supose that if the drive head always returned to a fixed location when idle then the disk could be formatted so that no data is at that location. I'll stick to entering the code manually just to be safe.

[tep392]

As for the Archiver, preferred the Happy but do remember the fun of opening the 810 to slow the write down by adjusting a pot that you needed for some sectors...

 

I just ran across this today. I have been using my 810 Archiver to backup my floppy purchases but never needed to do this. While trying to copy Syncalc today, the archiver s/w, v3.02 tells me I need to slow down the drive. My understanding is that this allows it to write more sectors onto the track. But I have no idea how much I am supposed to adjust it. I didn't see any indication from the s/w. Do you recall any of the details of this process?

[Rybags]

Some info on adjusting 810 speed here http://www.page6.org/archive/issue_25/page_54.htm

 

Supposedly the software method of measuring drive RPM should be sufficient to adjust it to a custom speed or back to default.

 

Writing more sectors to a track - I should think if the drive firmware allows sufficient customisation then by temporarily increasing the drive speed you should fit even more sectors in. I think by default it was possible by using shorter gaps additional to the fact there was some slack space at the end of track anyway. In general practice with protection though it was fairly common to use duplicate sector IDs, e.g. have 2 or more sectors on a track with the same ID, and correct layout means you can select each at will determined by reading a different sector before it.

[bandit]

I just ran across this today. I have been using my 810 Archiver to backup my floppy purchases but never needed to do this. While trying to copy Syncalc today, the archiver s/w, v3.02 tells me I need to slow down the drive. My understanding is that this allows it to write more sectors onto the track. But I have no idea how much I am supposed to adjust it. I didn't see any indication from the s/w. Do you recall any of the details of this process?

The slow speed is 269 rpm. The normal is 288 you can have a switch and pot .

[tep392]

Thank you. Now I just need to find this R104 pot on the analog board as described in the page6 article. Problem is I can't find it. I do have the newer 810 with the separate analog board above the drive mechanism. But there is no sign of an adjustable pot on it.

 

edit: found it on the power board.

 

[+Larry]

Perhaps you also have a 1050, and ordered a Super Archiver + Bitwriter board? That will copy lots more stuff than an original Archiver. With a Happy 1050, you can load the Happy Archiver, then load the Super Archiver disk. Works well -- my personal favorite.

 

Larry

[tep392]

Perhaps you also have a 1050, and ordered a Super Archiver + Bitwriter board? That will copy lots more stuff than an original Archiver. With a Happy 1050, you can load the Happy Archiver, then load the Super Archiver disk. Works well -- my personal favorite.

 

Larry

Have you copied Syncalc with the SA+bitwriter before? I'm attempting to do it with my new Bitwriter Replica, but haven't got it to work yet. I copy the normal length tracks and fuzzy track 4 with 3.02 Super Archiver program. Then I copy all the long 21 sector tracks with the Bitwriter program. It seems to read all the correct tracks in the same order as the original disk, but after the loading is finished, it does a reset and re-boots.

[+Larry]

It's been a long, long time, but I think that the only success that I had with Syncalc was with a Happy PDB file. I do remember that I had nearly no success with the original CSS Bitwriter. Never tried the replica with anything.

 

-Larry

[tep392]

It's been a long, long time, but I think that the only success that I had with Syncalc was with a Happy PDB file. I do remember that I had nearly no success with the original CSS Bitwriter. Never tried the replica with anything.

 

-Larry

I was able to make a copy with my 810 Happy that works, but I really want to get this bitwriter to work since this is one of the programs it was intended to copy. I think the long tracks are ok because it get through them all. When I tried copying them without the bitwriter, it would move the head to read tracks that it shouldn't have. I re-read the SA manual and I think the problem might be track 4 with the fuzzy sector. It looks like fuzzy support might not be enabled by default. I'll try again tonight and make sure the P(hantom) sector option is enabled.

[ijor]

I assume you are talking about the newer (with 130XE support) version of Syncalc. I'm not very familiar with the Bitwriter, but ...

 

The supertracks or "long" tracks, except one, have not just 21, but 34 sectors. The weak sector is indeed at track 4.

 

I assume the Bitwriter software can't copy weak sectors. That should be copied separately with the fuzzy sector maker. Also it is possible (don't remember, would need to double check) that this disk requires copying with skew align. Don't know if the Bitwriter performs skew align by default or not. And even if it does, skew align on the 1050 is tricky.

 

Note that the Happy PDB doesn't really copy this disk. It just programs the Happy to simulate the protection.

 

Btw, the software side of the protection is written in some kind of seudo code. This seudo code interpreter was used, at least, by Synapse and Electronic Arts. Extremely clever. I wish the author would be known. Recently I asked somebody that worked for EA. He did remember about the seudo code when I mentioned it to him. But he said that it was licensed from an external developer (very smart according to his own words), but unfortunately he has no idea about his name.

Edited April 9, 2018 by ijor

[tep392]

It's dated 1985 and the manual states support for 130XE. The bitwriter s/w does a scan and it shows 21 sectors for tracks 5-7, 11-14, 16-17, 21-25 and 29-38. Track 4 has 17 and the remaining have 18. It doesn't show any tracks with 34.