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AtariProtos.Com Update


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#51 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:57 AM

That's right. I have no idea how some of these games eventually get out.



#52 PFL OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:01 AM

I still don't understand the reasons, hence my honest question.  I know he was talking about ALL protos in general.  I was just wishing Tempest or CPU or someone else to expand on it, that's all.

 

Me too.  Would someone mind giving some things that go on?  I'm curious too. 



#53 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:20 AM

I still don't understand the reasons, hence my honest question.  I know he was talking about ALL protos in general.  I was just wishing Tempest or CPU or someone else to expand on it, that's all.

I'm afraid I can't discuss it.  All will be made clear eventually, that's all I can say.

 

Most proto releases are pretty cut and dry, however now and then you get some odd cases where the release is either held up by legal reasons or the owner just doesn't want it out there for some reason.  When someone asks me not to share the proto then I have to abide by their wishes, it's as simple as that.  If I didn't, no one would let me review their protos anymore.  There *is* a good reason behind delaying the release of this one, it's not due to greed or selfishness.  Just hang tight.



#54 Supergun OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:34 AM

I'm afraid I can't discuss it.  All will be made clear eventually, that's all I can say.
 
Most proto releases are pretty cut and dry, however now and then you get some odd cases where the release is either held up by legal reasons or the owner just doesn't want it out there for some reason.  When someone asks me not to share the proto then I have to abide by their wishes, it's as simple as that.  If I didn't, no one would let me review their protos anymore.  There *is* a good reason behind delaying the release of this one, it's not due to greed or selfishness.  Just hang tight.



Agreed 100%
When I see emulated shots of an unreleased / undumped proto, I smile & sleep easy at night.
Reason being, it speaks volumes. It means that not only is the game now discovered, but it is also now safe. Nothing else really matters if you think about.
It may take a few weeks, months, or even years, but it means that eventually, the game will be released.

So seeing that here, we are already 99% through the process.


(here's a snippet of what I wrote a while back)
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Step 1)
Discovery: A proto is found by someone and/or someone comes forward who already has it in their possession.
THIS first step, believe it or not, is the hardest one of them all. It is often under appreciated by everyone.
Remember, it is absolutely impossible to buy something that does not exist.
The people who have these protos are usually either off the radar & recluse high end collectors who keep to themselves
and remain silent or they are not even gamers or collectors but rather someone who was once in the industry, but now
do other things and are completely oblivious as to the rarity & value of the item gathering dust in a forgotten box in their basement.

Who has the game?
Is the owner someone who lives in the USA and/or speaks English?
Can the owner be reached for questions and discussion?
Is the owner willing to provide information, pictures, or video?
Are they cooperative or responsive at all?
What does the owner have invested into the game?
(and not just in so much as how much money they paid for it, but also how much time they invested tracking it down?)
Is the item even available for sale and if so at what price?

Step 2)
Acquisition: Can the proto be acquired through a trade or an outright purchase from this owner?
If so, who in the community is willing to spend the money, and take the time & risk required in order to obtain it from them?
Once done, and the proto changes hands, how much higher has it now escalated in price due to the additional costs involved in acquiring it?

Step 3)
Release: Is this new owner capable and/or willing to at least safeguard the rom data for preservation?
Secondly, are they willing to dump the games data in order to share it with the community?
Lastly, assuming the owner is willing, what are their stipulations? Reimbursement? Profits? Distribution restrictions?

Remember that once the proto is released and thus becomes shareware, the original (if a physical one even exists as sometimes they only exist as data)
drops in value and becomes worthless (or at the very least worth much less) all at the loss to the owner. So they usually need to be compensated properly
before they even consider releasing it. Regardless of that however, it is the pirates & bootleggers that make money from their reproductions of the protos
in the years following, none of which benefits the original owner. So obviously they take that into consideration when setting their asking price as well.

As far as the questions raised about copyrights & intellectual property rights, I would agree that with regards to the modern day gaming communities,
with billion dollar companies like Microsoft & Sony developing million dollar software, it adds the additional element of legal issues and such.
Personally, I probably wouldn't even want to get anywhere near all that drama.

But when it comes to these classic gaming systems, and their often times small & simplistic games, to which the vast majority of the companies
involved are no longer even in business, it rarely causes controversy.

Sure, every once in a while a game with licensing ties can become trickier, and someone who cares is still around and somehow takes notice.
(Garfield comes to mind) And messing with giants like Disney is never wise. But those exceptions are few & far between.
But this detail usually only affects whether the funds raised for the payment to the proto owner can be acquired through a controlled community release
of copies of the game.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

#55 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:06 AM

Remember that once the proto is released and thus becomes shareware, the original (if a physical one even exists as sometimes they only exist as data)
drops in value and becomes worthless (or at the very least worth much less) all at the loss to the owner.

You mean Air Raid would have sold for much, much more than 30k if the ROM would not have been available?

#56 Supergun OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:18 AM

You mean Air Raid would have sold for much, much more than 30k if the ROM would not have been available?


Your comparing apples & oranges.
The value of a proto (an unreleased game) is affected by the status of the games rom data.
The value of a grail (a released game) is not.

A collector will pay crazy money for an item they need to complete their collection of a certain set or system.
They have to have all the released games and they must be 100% original, copies and reproductions are not good enough.

A collector will also pay crazy money for a one of a kind (such as an unreleased/undumped proto) just for the status
of having said item in their collection as the only one in the world.

But if the proto has been dumped, and anyone can make a copy, it has far less value to them.
Not just because it is no longer a one of a kind, but also because the main reason it had value (as-is) was because
it was the only one. Reason being most if not all protos are UGLY! They are crappy condition label-less loose carts
and look horrible on a shelf next to released games or reproductions of protos that are dressed up.

#57 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:20 AM

You mean Air Raid would have sold for much, much more than 30k if the ROM would not have been available?

Well Air Raid isn't a proto, it's a released game (even if it's really rare).  So I don't think you can't compare the two.

 

I would say that it's true that the value of a proto does drop once it's been dumped and released, but not as much as everyone thinks.  Generally that proto is still a one of a kind and will continue to be valuable.  One reason for the slight drop in value is that the owner loses the opportunity to sell copies of a game that's only available from one source.  However I think recent developments have proven that people will still buy repros even if the rom is released at the same time.  

 

I want to state again though that this has nothing to do with Xevious.  The reasons behind delaying the release of that rom are quite different.



#58 Mitch OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:43 PM

Your comparing apples & oranges.
The value of a proto (an unreleased game) is affected by the status of the games rom data.
The value of a grail (a released game) is not.

A collector will pay crazy money for an item they need to complete their collection of a certain set or system.
They have to have all the released games and they must be 100% original, copies and reproductions are not good enough.

A collector will also pay crazy money for a one of a kind (such as an unreleased/undumped proto) just for the status
of having said item in their collection as the only one in the world.

But if the proto has been dumped, and anyone can make a copy, it has far less value to them.
Not just because it is no longer a one of a kind, but also because the main reason it had value (as-is) was because
it was the only one. Reason being most if not all protos are UGLY! They are crappy condition label-less loose carts
and look horrible on a shelf next to released games or reproductions of protos that are dressed up.

 

This doesn't affect Atari games so much as the Nintendo and later game systems.

 

Mitch



#59 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:49 PM

 

This doesn't affect Atari games so much as the Nintendo and later game systems.

 

Mitch

Nintendo has a history of going after ROM sites and repro makers, but their efforts to tramp out piracy are mainly targeted to devices that affect sales of current systems (mod chips and R4 carts for example) or mass produced Asian clone pirates with built in games (Power Joy III, etc). Botique repro makers and flash carts for vintage systems largely fall under the radar, except when something goes viral, like IGN's review of "Super Mario Bros 2600" which got Princess Rescue pulled from the AtariAge store. Aside from that and a graphical update of 2600 Mario Bros, they left AtariAge alone. Even let Albert keep the ROM link but he simply wasn't allowed to profit from it.



#60 Mitch OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:14 PM

Nintendo has a history of going after ROM sites and repro makers, but their efforts to tramp out piracy are mainly targeted to devices that affect sales of current systems (mod chips and R4 carts for example) or mass produced Asian clone pirates with built in games (Power Joy III, etc). Botique repro makers and flash carts for vintage systems largely fall under the radar, except when something goes viral, like IGN's review of "Super Mario Bros 2600" which got Princess Rescue pulled from the AtariAge store. Aside from that and a graphical update of 2600 Mario Bros, they left AtariAge alone. Even let Albert keep the ROM link but he simply wasn't allowed to profit from it.

My comment was in reference to value of protos that have had the ROMs made available vs not available.

 

Mitch



#61 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:17 AM

...it's not due to greed or selfishness.

From my own experience that reason is much less common then most people seem to assume.



#62 7800Lover OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:17 PM

Tempest, thanks for sharing these prototypes.  It's amazing to see what we never got for the Atari systems. 



#63 iesposta OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 9, 2014 8:18 AM

Tempest,
Any more information or plans regarding the complete Xevious 2600?
I demand you let me spend money for 2600 Xevious!
Seriously, just posting to show interest...

#64 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 9, 2014 8:46 AM

x2 on the intrest part. I actually like demakes. Bonus if it's a vintage unreleased ROM. :)



#65 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 9, 2014 9:03 AM

Tempest,
Any more information or plans regarding the complete Xevious 2600?
I demand you let me spend money for 2600 Xevious!
Seriously, just posting to show interest...

 

I won't know more until after February of next year.  Fingers crossed.



#66 FujiSkunk OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 9, 2014 10:44 AM

Heh, I was just thinking about this one.  Good to know more news is forthcoming.  Thanks!  Looking forward to March! 



#67 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:00 AM

 

I won't know more until after February of next year.  Fingers crossed.

Yeah. Negotiations are a PITA... |:)



#68 keitaro OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:54 PM

Nice updates, Tempest! But as I let you know in a PM, I've been having a problem with some pages of your website not displaying properly. Here are some screenshots:

 

attachicon.gifUntitled.png

attachicon.gifUntitledb.png

attachicon.gifUntitledc.png

 

As you can see, all of those pages are expanding off the sides of the screen. All of the other pages that I have checked on your site display properly so it seems to be some kind of new formatting problem. Has anyone else noticed this?

 

Hi, That's because there are using tables with fixed width.

Just simple delete fixed widths declared inside the main column (the one with 85% width). For example in Elf Adventure page delete the "width: 1375px" property shown in screenshot attached.

Attached Thumbnails

  • atariprotos.jpg


#69 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:46 PM

I tried that and it looked odd and gave me an error.  What should I replace that width with?



#70 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:48 PM

I tried that and it looked odd and gave me an error.  What should I replace that width with?

If you have Firefox, load the page. Go to info, click the "media" tab, and use the arrow key to scroll through the embedded items on the page. When you find the image you want, save it to your HD and you can view it all you want.



#71 keitaro OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:08 AM

I tried that and it looked odd and gave me an error.  What should I replace that width with?

 

Hi Tempest, assuming is static HTML (no PHP, etc), in Elf Adventure page the line 77:

<table style="width: 1375px; height: 250px;" border="0" cellpadding="3">

Remove width property, so it would be:

<table style="height: 250px;" border="0" cellpadding="3">

(or directly <table border="0" cellpadding="3">)

 

If you have a fixed width of 1375px, in many screens would be greater than the 85% width declared on the parent container.



#72 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:41 AM

Ok I changed it but now the screenshot for the top image is in the center of the screen instead of off to the right.

 

elf.png



#73 keitaro OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:03 AM

Hi Tempest I see.

It should be like Xevious page for example?

http://www.atariprot...ous/xevious.htm

 

If so, Xevious use a relative width of 96% for table at that area.

Please take the same line 77 for Elf adventure and add this value for width:

<table style="width: 96%;height: 250px;" border="0" cellpadding="3">

 

Edit: The screenshot attached is how I see it with width:96% added in firebug, please let me know If It should be like this.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Captura de pantalla de 2014-12-13 18:01:38.png

Edited by keitaro, Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:04 AM.


#74 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:17 AM

Yes that's how it should look.

I used to use Dreamweaver but when I switched to Linux I started using Blue Griffon and that's when the trouble started. Maybe I should look for a better program?

#75 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:07 PM

Ok check it out now.

 

If there are others, let me know.






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