Some random reflection of the "old times..."

[82-T/A]

So... was just checking the status of my car parts that I'm selling on eBay, and I ran across a link that showed a CGA Epson monitor. Nothing so amazing about it, but it immediately triggered something in my head and I started having all kinds of flash-backs about using computers through most of my childhood in the 80s and early 90s.

 

"Back in the day..." I used to ride my bike around the neighborhood, and on bulk pickup day, I would scour ever street looking for computers that people had thrown away. Back in the late 80s and early 90s, there was little concern for recycling computers, so people would literally just dump them, complete with the hard drives and everything. I wasn't a pack-rat, but my parent let me keep one or two of them as I would find them and then fix them in the basement. I found a couple of 8088s, a 286, an Apple 2e, and a bunch of other equipment. I either fixed it up and sold it at a garage sale, or re-tossed it after I had basically gone through the entire thing.

 

There was always the excitement of getting one of the running and checking out what was on the hard drive. In those days, there was really no such thing as porn on the computers... at least, if there was, it didn't look right in CGA or EGA... so I never ran into that.

 

 

Fast forward however long... my whole career is basically based around computers, and it just isn't fun anymore (not the career... computers). I don't know what's changed... but it seemed like computers back then were more exciting and more interesting. Even BBSing seemed infinitely more rewarding than the internet (as I sit here on the internet posting a message on a form). I dunno... I don't really play games anymore either... but they just don't seem as immersive as the old crappy EGA and low-res VGA games did of times past.

 

Games like Starflight, Sentinel Worlds, Kings Quest, Space Quest, Ultima, Wing Commander, the AD&D Gold Box Series games... heck, even "Maze" on Prodigy seemed worlds better to me than what's out today.

 

 

So what's changed? Am I just a lame old fart in his 30s, or is there some shred of logic to what I'm saying?

 

Even computer equipment seems less "interesting" to me... it's so clinical / sterile now... it felt like hardware back then had character. Maybe it was just all new to me, so it was interesting... I dunno.

 

 

(posted in a not-grouchy complaining way)

[Omega-TI]

I hear and totally understand where you are coming from. "Back in the day", computers were "NEW" and exciting, every new program seemed to push the envelope just a little further, there was always some new gadget you could buy to increase performance, utility or the "fun factor". While the newer computers could do a lot, you could usually find something that brought your 'older' computer up a few notches.

 

The BBS's were like the user groups, a way to meet new and usually local people, to learn about your "pride and joy", your computer. That is why I like Atari Age so much, you can meet some Uber Programmer's, top of the line hardware hackers and some very talented integration guys that can put it all together into one really sweet package. It takes me back to the feeling of community that we all once shared. Now days the Internet seems so large and impersonaland the computers seem like just another appliance.

 

One of the nice things about the Internet though, it can take you to individual BBS systems, and you can even log on to them with your own classic computer.

 

Now when it comes to games, I guess I am and old fart, because I prefer the older simpler games that I can just load and play to have a few moments of enjoyment. Many of these newer games require too much of an investment of time just to figure out how to play properly, that not relaxing for me.

[RobertLM78]

I think all of us here on AA feel like this to some point. I can remember being excited over the computer ads in the early '90s. Nowadays, it's just another machine...

[Keatah]

The industry was new and creative back then. Discovery.

Today it's all about profit margins and ways to get your money.

[akator]

For me these things come and go in phases. I'll spend years enjoying things, then it all starts changing. Sometimes I like the changes, sometimes the changes seem stupid and arbitrary. It is during the latter that I get "old and cranky." This happens at least once or twice each decade. I always find something new to hold my interest. Once that happens I lighten up and start enjoying things again.

[+Random Terrain]

I'm in my 40s and video games and computers seemed to be more magical back then. Making a game also seemed to be more magical. Having an idea and bringing it to life on the screen was amazing. You could actually create simulated life forms and play with them. But everything seems to have a honeymoon is over time limit and it stops being as fun and magical at some point.

[Keatah]

Having had a "dry spell" in videogaming, i.e. not seriously playing any cartridge based systems from the early 1990's to about 1990 has helped me appreciate the emulation we have today, and more. At least I didn't play them with crazed fury like I did in the 70's and early 80's. Then emulation started rolling forward in earnest and the rest is history

 

 

I hear and totally understand where you are coming from. "Back in the day", computers were "NEW" and exciting, every new program seemed to push the envelope just a little further, there was always some new gadget you could buy to increase performance, utility or the "fun factor". While the newer computers could do a lot, you could usually find something that brought your 'older' computer up a few notches.

Computers and videogames were something new. Something never seen before. And getting new games and cartridges was almost as fun as planning a Lunar Lander & videogame sleepover.

 

The Apple II's I/O expansion cards were uber exciting! Getting a disk drive. A 16K language card. Shit. Man. This was exciting! To be able to load a completely different language into the card and no longer program in BASIC. Wow! And even a lower-case chip. I was elite to the max! A modem. A clock card to tell the time. Mountain Music System, I was sing'n in the rain. 80 column card, never saw things like this! And a graphic printer with a buffer, I was going to be a sci-fi author and artist!

 

Was there anything this Apple II+ couldn't do?

 

The BBS's were like the user groups, a way to meet new and usually local people, to learn about your "pride and joy", your computer.

The purpose of BBS'es back then was to get games. There was nothing quite like starting a transfer the night before (at 110/300 baud) and waking up on a cold winter's morning to 2 floppies full of BRUN games. BRUN games are what my circle of friends and I called the binary executable games, single file most of the time. Or if you ran a BBS it was a crapshoot. Sometimes users would upload when you least expect it. And it was good.

 

The etiquette of the day was to try and never interrupt a transfer in progress. You sort of learned that sooner or later yourself when you had to deal with getting the carrier connected up and all that. Going through all that trouble! So once you made a connection you kept it rolling.

 

 

Now when it comes to games, I guess I am and old fart, because I prefer the older simpler games that I can just load and play to have a few moments of enjoyment. Many of these newer games require too much of an investment of time just to figure out how to play properly, that not relaxing for me.

Nonsense. You may be an old fart but you don't have to feel like one. Even back then I did not like overly complex games. Never did, never will with the exception of maybe one here or there. Like simulators.

 

There a space simulator I like, and all the documentation comes to be like 1,500 pages. Reading all of it is not required, just the first 200 more or less. The rest is science and reference material.

 

And X-Plane, another nice simulation. But that's about it for the complex stuff. Everything else is classic cartridge stuff like the VCS or Colecovision or Intellivision. Or arcade games via M.A.M.E..

 

 

"Back in the day..." I used to ride my bike around the neighborhood, and on bulk pickup day, I would scour ever street looking for computers that people had thrown away. Back in the late 80s and early 90s, there was little concern for recycling computers, so people would literally just dump them, complete with the hard drives and everything. I wasn't a pack-rat, but my parent let me keep one or two of them as I would find them and then fix them in the basement. I found a couple of 8088s, a 286, an Apple 2e, and a bunch of other equipment. I either fixed it up and sold it at a garage sale, or re-tossed it after I had basically gone through the entire thing.

My golden days of garbage picking and trashing happened before people would through out full-fledged computers. It was usually radios and record players. A great source of motors, tubes, and other discrete parts and wires.

 

But I have to admit, I still get excited on garbage day and will sometimes take the long way home and through and around the neighborhood. I tell the wife I'm testing out the car if she happens to be with me. If I spot something of interest I will stop right then and there and scoop it up. Hey I thought my days of trashing were over. Guess not.

 

Fast forward however long... my whole career is basically based around computers, and it just isn't fun anymore (not the career... computers). I don't know what's changed... but it seemed like computers back then were more exciting and more interesting. Even BBSing seemed infinitely more rewarding than the internet (as I sit here on the internet posting a message on a form). I dunno... I don't really play games anymore either... but they just don't seem as immersive as the old crappy EGA and low-res VGA games did of times past.

 

Games like Starflight, Sentinel Worlds, Kings Quest, Space Quest, Ultima, Wing Commander, the AD&D Gold Box Series games... heck, even "Maze" on Prodigy seemed worlds better to me than what's out today.

 

So what's changed? Am I just a lame old fart in his 30s, or is there some shred of logic to what I'm saying?

 

Even computer equipment seems less "interesting" to me... it's so clinical / sterile now... it felt like hardware back then had character. Maybe it was just all new to me, so it was interesting... I dunno. (posted in a not-grouchy complaining way)

Well yes. I would venture to guess that back in the day we were oblivious to the real reasons of why companies did what they did. My world was get in the car and ride down to Sears, Toys'R'Us, or Turn Style or Venture and see what new games were out. Nothing else mattered. Parents were good API layers then, they obfuscated the details of having to make money to get games, most of the times.

 

But many a time I would sweep driveways, or pick up garbage, or cut lawns.. to get money to get Apple II hardware and all that.

 

Today the internet is a very noisy place. Full of the idiocy and people that shouldn't be anywhere near electronics. I'd bet that for every 1KB of information you want, you have to filter through at least 120-150KB of bullshit fodder. High noise ratio indeed. And a lot of it is about commerce and transferring your money to "them". BBS'es were concise and to the point and had an extraordinary signal-to-noise ratio.

 

Computers today are appliances and disposable like so. I know so many people in my part of town that just throw away their systems when something goes wrong. They don't have time to be formatting and re-installing and swapping parts and all that.

[Rhomaios]

I think it has to do with the simplicity of the old machines. The amount of code that goes into programs these days is prohibitive without large-scale cooperation, so the lone tinkering days are mostly gone.

[Keatah]

In the old days it was possible for 1 person to be an expert with all aspects of the machine.

[dafivehole]

I used to work for Best Buy and it always saddened me to see so many of the old machines being "thrown out" (recycled). I can't tell you how many 5150's and other assorted vintage gems I would see pass through on their way to the recycling burial grounds.

 

Roger

[MarkO]

For me these things come and go in phases. I'll spend years enjoying things, then it all starts changing. Sometimes I like the changes, sometimes the changes seem stupid and arbitrary. It is during the latter that I get "old and cranky." This happens at least once or twice each decade. I always find something new to hold my interest. Once that happens I lighten up and start enjoying things again.

Some things are changed, for change's sake. It's the mantra of the Fashion Industry..

 

Some are improvements, ( e.g. The scroll wheel of the iPod ), some are not...

 

MarkO

[MarkO]

<< SNIP >>

 

The Apple II's I/O expansion cards were uber exciting! Getting a disk drive. A 16K language card. Shit. Man. This was exciting! To be able to load a completely different language into the card and no longer program in BASIC. Wow! And even a lower-case chip. I was elite to the max! A modem. A clock card to tell the time. Mountain Music System, I was sing'n in the rain. 80 column card, never saw things like this! And a graphic printer with a buffer, I was going to be a sci-fi author and artist!

 

Was there anything this Apple II+ couldn't do?

New Hardware was always exciting.... Trying it out, and accomplishing things was the reward..

 

The purpose of BBS'es back then was to get games. There was nothing quite like starting a transfer the night before (at 110/300 baud) and waking up on a cold winter's morning to 2 floppies full of BRUN games. BRUN games are what my circle of friends and I called the binary executable games, single file most of the time. Or if you ran a BBS it was a crapshoot. Sometimes users would upload when you least expect it. And it was good.

 

The etiquette of the day was to try and never interrupt a transfer in progress. You sort of learned that sooner or later yourself when you had to deal with getting the carrier connected up and all that. Going through all that trouble! So once you made a connection you kept it rolling.

I did most of my swapping in person, the BBS's were for communicating with like minded people.

 

 

<< SNIP >>

 

My golden days of garbage picking and trashing happened before people would through out full-fledged computers. It was usually radios and record players. A great source of motors, tubes, and other discrete parts and wires.

 

But I have to admit, I still get excited on garbage day and will sometimes take the long way home and through and around the neighborhood. I tell the wife I'm testing out the car if she happens to be with me. If I spot something of interest I will stop right then and there and scoop it up. Hey I thought my days of trashing were over. Guess not.

I got a HP with a P4 and a Packard Bell with a 80306 sitting next to the curb, about a year ago..

 

<< SNIP >>

 

Today the internet is a very noisy place. Full of the idiocy and people that shouldn't be anywhere near electronics. I'd bet that for every 1KB of information you want, you have to filter through at least 120-150KB of bullshit fodder. High noise ratio indeed. And a lot of it is about commerce and transferring your money to "them". BBS'es were concise and to the point and had an extraordinary signal-to-noise ratio.

A way to make money, with low Barrier to Entry....

 

Computers today are appliances and disposable like so. I know so many people in my part of town that just throw away their systems when something goes wrong. They don't have time to be formatting and re-installing and swapping parts and all that.

On the flip side, because there is lots of demand for computers, the cost per MIPS/Bytes/Hrz has gone down...

 

MarkO

[BassGuitari]

Today it's all about profit margins and ways to get your money.

You don't think it was then, too? The companies that did all the innovating, pioneering, and creating in the early days didn't sustain themselves on the magical feelings people felt for their stuff, unless those magical feelings translated to sales.

[Keatah]

I think it was a lot less then than it is now. Back then I think creativity and fun came first and then profits came next. At least creativity was what started something going. Today the desire for profit starts most things.

[BydoEmpire]

I think it was a lot less then than it is now. Back then I think creativity and fun came first and then profits came next. At least creativity was what started something going. Today the desire for profit starts most things.

I'm not sure I completely agree, but there is some truth to this. Commodore had their innovation lab, lots of companies would try weird things because engineers could actually convince execs to try things out and prototype - and the cost of doing that wasn't prohibitive. Cost and profit were obviously serious drivers for all the classic computer companies, but there was also more willingness to try new things because there wasn't a standard yet. Any new home computer or add-on had the chance of being "the next big thing." It's just a bigger business now. As Nolan Bushnell said (not quite verbatim, but close): as the costs of production escalate, power shifts from design and engineering to marketing and business.

[MarkO]

I think it was a lot less then than it is now. Back then I think creativity and fun came first and then profits came next. At least creativity was what started something going. Today the desire for profit starts most things.

 

And today we have Projects like the CFFA 3000 and Briel Computers and Nishida Radio among a few.... So the Old Days aren't totally lost..

 

MarkO