Jump to content

Photo

Could be the oldest ARABIC OS "NAJM"


78 replies to this topic

#51 Savetz OFFLINE  

Savetz

    Stargunner

  • 1,028 posts
  • Location:Portland OR

Posted Tue Apr 3, 2018 10:12 AM

Here's the cart. As for the PCB, the case seems to be held together by a screw behind the label. I will not harm the label to open it.

 

IMG_0340.JPG

IMG_0341.JPG


Edited by Savetz, Tue Apr 3, 2018 10:13 AM.


#52 atari65xenajm OFFLINE  

atari65xenajm

    Star Raider

  • 83 posts
  • Location:Texas

Posted Thu Apr 5, 2018 12:01 PM

Here's the cart. As for the PCB, the case seems to be held together by a screw behind the label. I will not harm the label to open it.

 

attachicon.gifIMG_0340.JPG

attachicon.gifIMG_0341.JPG

 

This cartridge reads لبيبة والسنافر (transliterated as Labibah was-Sanafir) or translated as Labibah and the Smurfs.

 

Our friend Madi has captured this cartridge into an image here: http://atariage.com/...najm/?p=3092131

 

Thanks for sharing Savetz!



#53 atari65xenajm OFFLINE  

atari65xenajm

    Star Raider

  • 83 posts
  • Location:Texas

Posted Sun Apr 8, 2018 1:16 PM

More pictures of cartridges from aDawliah.  I found those on eBay today but the seller, based in Egypt, is asking for incredibly high prices for these two.

 

This one here is بنك المعلومات transliterated as Bankul Ma'aloomat, which is Arabic for Bank of Knowledge.  The title resembles a famous TV series in the 1990's where contestants compete in answering questions by the presenter.  Similar to Jeopardy in the US.

Screen Shot 2018-04-08 at 2.06.07 PM.png

 

The second cartridge here is اختبر ذكائك [sic].  This cartridge is one of a kind because it has a typo in its name!  It should have been printed as اختبر ذكاءك transliterated as Ikhtabir Thaka'ak which is Arabic for Test your Intellect.

Screen Shot 2018-04-08 at 2.06.48 PM.png

 

I will keep an eye on these two carts and if the owner reduces their price to something in the ballpark of $100 each, I can buy them and share the dumps.  I am not sure if all aDawliah cartridges follow the same mapping as Kr0tki found it, but it would be worth investigating then.

 

Enjoy!



#54 tf_hh OFFLINE  

tf_hh

    Dragonstomper

  • 756 posts
  • Location:Germany

Posted Mon Apr 9, 2018 3:11 AM

Hi all,

 

I know it´s not the right thread, but I´m sure, some owner of an arabic XE watch this :)

 

I got two mails in the last 12 months from different user (one in USA, one in UK) that their arabic 65XE won´t work with my Sys-Check V2.2. Both computers have an ECI, of course. Reported issue is the same: Just a red/brown screen after Sys-Check is plugged in. Contacts were okay, one of them test the XE successfully with a KMK-IDE V2.0 IDE interface.

 

Of course I´m interested what´s going in there, but I haven´t any arabic 65 XE in my collection.

 

So I ask the community... does anybody own such a model, has also Sys-Check and test it? And, is there anybody who is willing to borrow me the mainboard (less shipping costs and risk of damages) for testing with Sys-Check?

 

Thanks, Jurgen



#55 Fred_M OFFLINE  

Fred_M

    Dragonstomper

  • 531 posts
  • Location:Schiedam, Netherlands

Posted Mon Apr 9, 2018 5:07 AM

Hi Jürgen,

 

I am willing to send you my 65XE Arabic for testing.

 

Just let me know if you want to take this offer.

 

Kind regards,

Fred



#56 flashjazzcat ONLINE  

flashjazzcat

    Quadrunner

  • 14,329 posts
  • Location:United Kingdom

Posted Mon Apr 9, 2018 5:09 AM

I think SysCheck should work OK with them Jurgen, since I'm pretty sure I used the device to diagnose RAM issues on one or more Arabic XEs.

#57 brenski OFFLINE  

brenski

    Stargunner

  • 1,811 posts
  • How should we f**k off, oh Lord ?
  • Location:Ventura Highway, in the sunshine [UK]

Posted Mon Apr 9, 2018 6:33 AM

it's the edge connectors on ECI interface

 

sometimes "wiggling" sys-check II around can make contact.

on some 65XENs the edge connectors are too thin and contact is impossible - i know I have two that refuse to play ball.


Edited by brenski, Mon Apr 9, 2018 6:34 AM.


#58 tf_hh OFFLINE  

tf_hh

    Dragonstomper

  • 756 posts
  • Location:Germany

Posted Mon Apr 9, 2018 12:41 PM

I am willing to send you my 65XE Arabic for testing.

Just let me know if you want to take this offer.

 

Hi Fred,

 

thanks very much :thumbsup:  - But before we ship the computer, I will wait for more responses.

 

BR Jurgen



#59 tf_hh OFFLINE  

tf_hh

    Dragonstomper

  • 756 posts
  • Location:Germany

Posted Mon Apr 9, 2018 12:43 PM

it's the edge connectors on ECI interface

sometimes "wiggling" sys-check II around can make contact.

on some 65XENs the edge connectors are too thin and contact is impossible - i know I have two that refuse to play ball.

 

This was also my first thought. Have had this issue at some XE (and XL, too), that´s the reason why I have a "cleaning tipps" chapter in the Sys-Check manual.

 

Did you also test Sys-Check with an arabic XE successfully like Jon? If so, I think there are more "positives" then the need to examine it by myself. And, I never heard of a different hardware setup, just an alternative operating system.



#60 flashjazzcat ONLINE  

flashjazzcat

    Quadrunner

  • 14,329 posts
  • Location:United Kingdom

Posted Mon Apr 9, 2018 12:56 PM

All or most of the Arabic XEs I repaired (and diagnosed with SysCheck in some cases) belonged to Brenski, BTW. I cannot be sure which SysCheck board revision was used with which, of course, since I have both. :)



#61 Fred_M OFFLINE  

Fred_M

    Dragonstomper

  • 531 posts
  • Location:Schiedam, Netherlands

Posted Mon Apr 9, 2018 1:14 PM

My Arabic XE came from Brenski too  ;)

 

If I can test the ECI with something else than the Sys-Check, let me know  :thumbsup:



#62 brenski OFFLINE  

brenski

    Stargunner

  • 1,811 posts
  • How should we f**k off, oh Lord ?
  • Location:Ventura Highway, in the sunshine [UK]

Posted Mon Apr 9, 2018 3:16 PM

i've got 5 XENs here and there's different responses from "identical" setups:

 

initial results:

 

■ 65XEN Rev 2 - 8/8 ram - c101700-001a - RED SCREEN

■ 130XE Rev 1 - 2/4 ram - c101700-002c - SyscheckII runs

■ 65XEN Rev 2 - 8/8 ram - c101700-001a - SyscheckII runs

■ 65XEN Rev 2 - 8/8 ram - c101700-1c - SyscheckII runs

■ 130XE Rev 1 - 2/4 ram - c101700-02c - RED SCREEN

 

the two red screeners didn't get resolved by "wiggling"...however,

after a significant trial and error, i found that:

if you insert the syscheck-II so that it is flush against the wall of the ECI slot (nearest to SIO) and a small gap of about 1mm at monitor port end of ECI, then the syscheck-II works perfectly.

 

Jurgen, this leads me to conclude that there are definitely some physical differences between the Arabic models and (obviously) nothing to do with the syscheck-II.

 

bear in mind - you experiment like i did - at your own risk.


Edited by brenski, Mon Apr 9, 2018 3:22 PM.


#63 flashjazzcat ONLINE  

flashjazzcat

    Quadrunner

  • 14,329 posts
  • Location:United Kingdom

Posted Mon Apr 9, 2018 3:57 PM

But do the two that don't work with SysCheck work with other ECI devices? Until we know that, I don't think we can conclude anything definite at all. I couldn't get my last remaining IDE plus to work with my 600XL until I cleaned the pads with isopropyl alcohol. The more that can be eliminated at this end, the less time Jürgen has to spend investigating potential non-issues.

#64 tf_hh OFFLINE  

tf_hh

    Dragonstomper

  • 756 posts
  • Location:Germany

Posted Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:44 AM

i've got 5 XENs here and there's different responses from "identical" setups:

 

after a significant trial and error, i found that:

if you insert the syscheck-II so that it is flush against the wall of the ECI slot (nearest to SIO) and a small gap of about 1mm at monitor port end of ECI, then the syscheck-II works perfectly.

 

Thank you very much for these infos. I´m astonished about the gap you mention. When I create the first Sys-Check boards and the prototype comes in, I try it in over 10 different XE mainboards, there wasn´t a gap of 1 mm possible when I´m remember right. Maybe I´m wrong, but 1 mm is too much to accept and can cause contact issues, of course.

 

Wil check this again with my stock of XE boards and some Sys-Check PCBs. I change the PCB maker from Iteadstudio to AllPCB last year, maybe here´s a difference. All PCB orders based on the same gerber data files, never changed that since V2.2 is born.

 

Strange...



#65 brenski OFFLINE  

brenski

    Stargunner

  • 1,811 posts
  • How should we f**k off, oh Lord ?
  • Location:Ventura Highway, in the sunshine [UK]

Posted Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:25 AM

yep. well there is definitely some play. and i was referring to the gap either side of the edge connector (which is about 1mm total).

when i slot the syscheck-II home flush against the case-edge nearest SIO it makes proper contact. it will go in dead centre, but obviously this is where it's not making correct contact.



#66 atari65xenajm OFFLINE  

atari65xenajm

    Star Raider

  • 83 posts
  • Location:Texas

Posted Wed May 9, 2018 7:00 PM

Ok, after some thread hijacking, I will try to bring this thread back to its due course.   ;)

 

The seller of the two aDawliah cartridges was kind enough to knock $150 off his price of the two cartridges.

 

I dumped the cartridges into a bin/rom image, but the mapping remains a problem to be solved.  Unfortunately I cannot open the cartridge to show pictures of the PCB.  Any other suggestions?

Attached Files



#67 Kr0tki OFFLINE  

Kr0tki

    Stargunner

  • 1,133 posts
  • Location:Warszawa, Poland

Posted Mon May 14, 2018 2:58 PM

Please document your dumping method. What software/hardware you used, what banking scheme you chose? Also try dumping each cartridge using all of the following mappings:
- Type 8: 64 KB Williams cartridge
- Type 9: Express 64 KB cartridge
- Type 24: XEGS 512 KB cartridge
- Type 31: MegaCart 512 KB cartridge
- Type 42: AtariMax 1 MB Flash cartridge
With the lack of PCB photos, different dumping methods might help in deducing the cartridges' banking schemes.

EDIT: One important thing: before performing each dump, remove and insert the cartridge from the slot, to force a reset of the cartridge hardware.

Edited by Kr0tki, Mon May 14, 2018 3:00 PM.


#68 Madi OFFLINE  

Madi

    Moonsweeper

  • Topic Starter
  • 383 posts

Posted Mon May 21, 2018 12:24 PM

Ok, after some thread hijacking, I will try to bring this thread back to its due course.   ;)

 

The seller of the two aDawliah cartridges was kind enough to knock $150 off his price of the two cartridges.

 

I dumped the cartridges into a bin/rom image, but the mapping remains a problem to be solved.  Unfortunately I cannot open the cartridge to show pictures of the PCB.  Any other suggestions?

Hi atari65xenajm 

Unfortunately, the second file (Ikhtabir Thakaak.bin) didn't work for me under Altirra.

madi



#69 phaeron OFFLINE  

phaeron

    River Patroller

  • 2,674 posts
  • Location:Bay Area, CA, USA

Posted Mon May 21, 2018 10:52 PM

Bank al Malumat is a 64K image with 8 unique banks; the other 8 in each block of 16 is all $FFs. Data written to $D500 selects bank. Cart boots in Altirra with Megacart 1M (2) mode. It only activates four banks but yet seems to work, so I'm not sure what's in the other four.

 

Ikhtabir Thakaak is most likely a bad dump as it only has 8K of unique data. It is trying to read from $D500 to switch banks when preloading a large amount of data on boot, so most likely another autoincrementing bank cart.



#70 atari65xenajm OFFLINE  

atari65xenajm

    Star Raider

  • 83 posts
  • Location:Texas

Posted Sun May 27, 2018 10:34 AM

Please document your dumping method. What software/hardware you used, what banking scheme you chose? Also try dumping each cartridge using all of the following mappings:
- Type 8: 64 KB Williams cartridge
- Type 9: Express 64 KB cartridge
- Type 24: XEGS 512 KB cartridge
- Type 31: MegaCart 512 KB cartridge
- Type 42: AtariMax 1 MB Flash cartridge
With the lack of PCB photos, different dumping methods might help in deducing the cartridges' banking schemes.

EDIT: One important thing: before performing each dump, remove and insert the cartridge from the slot, to force a reset of the cartridge hardware.

 

Hello Kr0tki and all,

 

I used the AtariMax software along with the MAX Flash USB Programmer.  From the above 5 schemes, I chose 8, 24, 31, and 42.  For some reason I was not able to find Express 64 KB cartridge.

 

After saving each dump, I removed and inserted the cartridge from the slot, and proceeded to the next dump.

 

I hope this works.

Attached Files



#71 Madi OFFLINE  

Madi

    Moonsweeper

  • Topic Starter
  • 383 posts

Posted Sun May 27, 2018 11:05 AM

 

Hello Kr0tki and all,

 

I used the AtariMax software along with the MAX Flash USB Programmer.  From the above 5 schemes, I chose 8, 24, 31, and 42.  For some reason I was not able to find Express 64 KB cartridge.

 

After saving each dump, I removed and inserted the cartridge from the slot, and proceeded to the next dump.

 

I hope this works.

Hi atari65xenajm 

I only managed to run the following file:

31_MegaCart_512_Ikhtabir_Thakaak.bin 

Actually it is not Ikhtabir Thakaak.bin. It is Bank_ul_Maalumat.bin which was reported as working file in an earlier post.

madi


Edited by Madi, Sun May 27, 2018 11:07 AM.


#72 atari65xenajm OFFLINE  

atari65xenajm

    Star Raider

  • 83 posts
  • Location:Texas

Posted Sun May 27, 2018 11:55 AM

Hi atari65xenajm 

I only managed to run the following file:

31_MegaCart_512_Ikhtabir_Thakaak.bin 

Actually it is not Ikhtabir Thakaak.bin. It is Bank_ul_Maalumat.bin which was reported as working file in an earlier post.

madi

 

You are right Madi!  Will need to do this again when I am more focused it seems!

 

I was able to run 31_MegaCart_512_Ikhtabir_Thakaak.bin as a SIC! Cart on Altirra 3.00 and it did work and produced Bank ul Maalumat indeed!  At least one cartridge is working!

 

Can this cartridge be converted to a proper .CAR file?



#73 Madi OFFLINE  

Madi

    Moonsweeper

  • Topic Starter
  • 383 posts

Posted Sun May 27, 2018 2:19 PM

I had a close look at the working image file :"Bank_ul_Maalumat.bin"

My finding is that the whole cartridge banks only serve two purposes.

1. Download a basic program (the game) to ram.

2 Provide a Basic Cartridge at $A000 - BFFF for the basic program to run

Funny. 

The basic program (game) is attached. LOAD and RUN

madi 

 

Attached Files



#74 atari65xenajm OFFLINE  

atari65xenajm

    Star Raider

  • 83 posts
  • Location:Texas

Posted Sun May 27, 2018 3:40 PM

 

You are right Madi!  Will need to do this again when I am more focused it seems!

 

I was able to run 31_MegaCart_512_Ikhtabir_Thakaak.bin as a SIC! Cart on Altirra 3.00 and it did work and produced Bank ul Maalumat indeed!  At least one cartridge is working!

 

Can this cartridge be converted to a proper .CAR file?

 

OK, reattached.

Attached Files


Edited by atari65xenajm, Sun May 27, 2018 3:40 PM.


#75 atari65xenajm OFFLINE  

atari65xenajm

    Star Raider

  • 83 posts
  • Location:Texas

Posted Mon May 28, 2018 3:42 PM

For those interested in a .car file.

 

 

You are right Madi!  Will need to do this again when I am more focused it seems!

 

I was able to run 31_MegaCart_512_Ikhtabir_Thakaak.bin as a SIC! Cart on Altirra 3.00 and it did work and produced Bank ul Maalumat indeed!  At least one cartridge is working!

 

Can this cartridge be converted to a proper .CAR file?

 

Attached Files


Edited by atari65xenajm, Mon May 28, 2018 3:42 PM.





0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users