Colors NTSC vs PAL

[Grevle]

It seems that this difference between Pal and Ntsc color always have been a little unsettled, so back in the 80's, Maybe the same discusssions was made by the programmers, And they probably did the best there time could afford back then. As i said before, To bad there wasn't one color system for the world back then. But since it was 2 or more Color systems, (France Had secam) We have to accept it and live with it now.

 

Anyway , Atari 8-Bit Computers is a nice and fun and interesting hobby, and for me who had Atari 400 back in the early 80's it will always mean something special .

[firestorm]

What about this guys? Are you not curious how to get these colors on NTSC screen? Not at all?

 

 

 

 

Color 6 printing error

 

 

Edited September 29, 2014 by firestorm

[Faicuai]

Arrgg!!!

 

Yov've made it... You made me look back at all this color jackpot, from square zero!

 

I payed close attention to your observations above, and decided to work a bit on Altirra. Indeed, there IS room for improvement, and, the following settings represent the best balance I was able to strike, across the board, with partial improvement in Jungle Hunt, and SENSIBLE improvements across the board, in most titles. SuperSalt ColorBar calibration, actual titles, archive photography, your color guide above, and other references were inspected for rendition accuracy.

 

Please, try to match the ColorBar screen on your 800XL+Sony Monitor (XL's Color Pot + Sony's phase) with that of Altirra (after setting these values on the latter):

 

Hue Start: -40 (fine tune between -42 and -38)

Hue Step: -25.7

Brightness: +1%

Contrast: 97% (for acceptable full-palette color / tonal separation, especially in the brighter region)

Saturation: between 23% (wide-gamut LCDs) and 25% (narrow-gamut LCDs)

Artifact Phase: 180

Artifact Sat.: 100

Artifact Bright: -15

 

BTW, the above translates into a (negative eight) in HUE/Tint adjustment in my DVDO iScan video processor (when running with my 800/Incognito). Both Altirra and my 800 look almost identical.

 

Let me know what results are you obtaining. Anything else beyond the above, and Star Raider's shields become something else other than D. Neubauer's TRUE colors ("(...) Actually the color on the left (dark blue) isn’t quite right either, it should be dark blue (with a hint of green) color."... and, to that extent, NO ONE messes with Star Raiders correct rendition ... So that's our hard-stop / benchmark, to confirm we have reached our limits.

 

Let me know...

Edited September 29, 2014 by Faicuai

[firestorm]

Just tried and it is not right

In basic try SETCOLOR 2,1,8 SETCOLOR 2,2,8 and so on to 15...(not sure witch luminance is better 6 or 8 )

But as I said they (Atari guys ) where using 2 color settings for some reason so Star Raiders is safe

My seting for Altirra will be standard NTSC then hue start -23 and hue step 25,6

Edited September 29, 2014 by firestorm

[Faicuai]

Just tried and it is not right

In basic try SETCOLOR 2,1,8 SETCOLOR 2,2,8 and so on to 15...(not sure witch luminance is better 6 or 8 )

But as I said they (Atari guys ) where using 2 color settings for some reason so Star Raiders is safe

My seting for Altirra will be standard NTSC then hue start -23 and hue step 25,6

 

Hue Start at -23 is impossible. It yields wrong colors, in almost ALL tittles: fire up F15 Strike Eagle, Pole Position, Star Raiders, Music Composer (even the classical "Ready" blue-screen), and you will see they are all F.U.B.A.R.

 

My narrow-gamut LCDs (where I display this stuff) and my Bravia KDL-52W3000 are all set between 6500K, D65 and D75 (whichever maximizes dynamic range, and whichever assures better gray neutrality), and the last two illuminants measured with Monaco Optix DTP-94 colorimeter.

 

Please, re-check your end.

 

HINT: I loaded POGO-JOE. It has a very primitive Color-Calibration screen. The settings I gave you above allow to "pass" it (with the exception of the "blue" they chose, which looks blue on NTSC CRT, but looks with a hint of violet (not offensive) on LCD / D65 or D75.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Faicuai

[firestorm]

Apparently we are only looking for NTSC Phase/Color Balance TV setting witch is correct with description from BASIC manuals, so let's put aside Altirra setings.

Must be the reason why they written these color guides, yes?

It's our quest

Edited September 29, 2014 by firestorm

[firestorm]

Colors from BASIC manual for SETCOLOR are:

 

0 Gray

1 Light Orange(Gold)

2 Orange

3 Red-Orange

4 Pink

5 Purple

6 Purple-Blue

7 Blue

8 Blue

9 Light Blue

10 Turquoise

11 Green-Blue

12 Green

13 Yellow-Green

14 Orange-Green

15 Light Orange

 

Can anybody get these colors on TV?

I guess Luminance must be set 6 or 8 because of light colors. Second, color bars from SALT might be the one. Quest is to set NTSC TV/monitor to get these colors.

Edited September 30, 2014 by firestorm

[Faicuai]

(...)

 

0 Gray

1 Light Orange(Gold)

2 Orange

3 Red-Orange

4 Pink

5 Purple

6 Purple-Blue

7 Blue

8 Blue

9 Light Blue

10 Turquoise

11 Green-Blue

12 Green

13 Yellow-Green

14 Orange-Green

15 Light Orange

 

(...). Second, color bars from SALT might be the one. Quest is to set NTSC TV/monitor to get these colors.

 

...While it makes total sense to depart from a fixed / documented "reference" (albeit devoid of any quantitative definition), we should be very careful with results that abstract themselves from the actual games / tittles / software.

 

In other words, it will be IMPERATIVE to always inspect results on a specific set of titles (e.g. Star Raiders, River Raid, Stealth, Joust, Zaxxon, Goonies, Caverns of Mars, Preppie, F-15 Strike Eagle, which all make extensive use of the machine's color palette, and for which there is collective memory of their actual "look").

 

As for your exercise, it should be ran through SuperSalt 2.0 (nothing else), since you can perform Hue-Start / Phase (how orange or green is the bottom-bar) and Hue-Step (bottom-bars match) with a decent degree of precision, and universally repeatable. In fact, the color / brightness of SuperSalt color's pattern are about the right level for evaluating color rendition.

 

Below are my results in Altirra (and virtually IDENTICAL on my actual 800/Incognito + DVDO iScanHD + VP930b LCD), with the settings I already posted above, and inspected on calibrated Sony Bravia KDL-52W3000:

 

 

The first observation (and this comes after lots of work on this topic) is that you will notice, even with REAL HW, that there is NO SUCH THING as both #7 and #8 "blue" bars. Instead, these are indeed DIFFERENT colors, as seen with today's analog-to-digital HW (with great color bandwidth and accurate signal processing). Furthermore, as you play with Hue Start (only variable possible if you lock Hue-Step for bottom-bars matching), there does not seem to be a way to compress tonal / chroma response on that 7/8 region, so you can get TWO blue bars.

 

Consequently, and right from the start, we are already seeing something strange right at the COLOR REFERENCE we have above, and we should use wise judgment, by simply exploring how actual titles look, with this change.

 

My 0.02c

Edited September 30, 2014 by Faicuai

[firestorm]

Faicuai, let's forget games for the moment, we want recreate setting, witch could match BASIC description. It is like, I don't know, you can call it retro-computer archaeology. Imagine the task 3000 years from now

Can you call first color bar from your picture Light Orange(Gold)?

 

 

We heard the stories about working environment at ATARI but you can't blame drug usage alone, can you?

 

There is many questions to answer, maybe someone on this forum knows the answers?

 

Why they set "color reference" (BASIC manual, SALT instruction, Atari 400/800 Field Service Manual) and then where using for some games and for some not?

(I'm looking for Super Salt manual pdf)

 

Is anybody there who worked in Atari Service or as programmer who can tell how it was?

 

Looks like PAL colors are based on this "reference" and it make sense because you can easily make games for both COLOR systems you will get similar colors.

 

I'm just waiting for sunset to take more pictures to support my hypothesis and conclusions

Edited September 30, 2014 by firestorm

[firestorm]

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NTSC

 

 

PAL

[Faicuai]

(...)

 

 

NTSC

 

 

...To pull out a screen like that, I need to dial -20 to -25 (on Hue) on my video processor (it comes out EXACTLY as that one).

 

However, it is meaningless: I don't even have a simple, clean BLUE "Ready" screen in Basic. This is what I've tried to warn you, putting aside the Archeological effort and wonder, of course )

 

I am beginning to believe that such Color Table reference is outdated, or it simply displays DIFFERENTLY via RF / Composite input on older NTSC Television Sets (in other words, a shallower Color Gamut, probably on the blues).

 

That there may have been two Palettes, well, it would force us to correlate what we are getting here (adjusted Color Bars and settings) with OLD and NEWER titles / games, in order to validate (first) if there was ever such duo of color schemes.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Faicuai

[+Stephen]

Forgive me if this is a dumb question. Does tuning the colour pot in the Atari do the same thing as the Hue (which I believe is phase) on the TV/video processor? The entire video section on these old machines is analog, as is the colour selection. As everyone at Atari Age knows, digital is better. Wouldn't you want to adjust each machine to the pre-calibrated display device, rather than adjust the TV to the individual computer?

 

FWIW - I'm pretty severely colour-blind so I could be missing tons of the details anyhow.

[Faicuai]

Forgive me if this is a dumb question. Does tuning the colour pot in the Atari do the same thing as the Hue (which I believe is phase) on the TV/video processor? The entire video section on these old machines is analog, as is the colour selection. As everyone at Atari Age knows, digital is better. Wouldn't you want to adjust each machine to the pre-calibrated display device, rather than adjust the TV to the individual computer?

 

FWIW - I'm pretty severely colour-blind so I could be missing tons of the details anyhow.

 

It is a pretty valid question, actually:

 

1. Atari's COLOR POT (on-board) = Hue-STEP (in Altirra). It should be adjusted by boosting TV (or video processor) "saturation" control to 80%-100% (to maximize visible error) and the rotate pot, until two bottom color-bars in (Super Salt Cartridge Color Bar test) do match, as closely as possible. Then reduce TV (video processor) "saturation" control back to normal / neutral level, and you have set Hue-STEP (NOT to be touched again).

 

2.TV's or Video Processor "HUE/Tint" or video monitor "Phase" should relate to Hue-START (in Altirra). Ideally, and in very simple and plain terms, it should be adjusted so Super Salt's bottom/last bar look as Yellowish/Golden as possible (NOT orange). This will protect color fidelity on the #7 and #8 COLOR bar (from top to bottom), thus yielding accurate Star Raiders colors, in NTSC (as described by D. Neubauer).

 

That is, in a nutshell, how you should adjust color response (assuming your CRT or LCD monitor are properly calibrated for black/white levels and K-temp color balance, which should be ~D65 to D75, depending on your monitor's native K-temp, without adjustment).

Edited October 1, 2014 by Faicuai

[firestorm]

Forgive me if this is a dumb question. Does tuning the colour pot in the Atari do the same thing as the Hue (which I believe is phase) on the TV/video processor? The entire video section on these old machines is analog, as is the colour selection. As everyone at Atari Age knows, digital is better. Wouldn't you want to adjust each machine to the pre-calibrated display device, rather than adjust the TV to the individual computer?

 

FWIW - I'm pretty severely colour-blind so I could be missing tons of the details anyhow.

 

Stephen, this topic started from me quoting Atari 400/800 Field Service Manual how to adjust Color Pot and TV to meet Color reference described there.

 

 

 

 

...To pull out a screen like that, I need to dial -20 to -25 (on Hue) on my video processor (it comes out EXACTLY as that one).

 

However, it is meaningless: I don't even have a simple, clean BLUE "Ready" screen in Basic. This is what I've tried to warn you, putting aside the Archeological effort and wonder, of course )

 

I am beginning to believe that such Color Table reference is outdated, or it simply displays DIFFERENTLY via RF / Composite input on older NTSC Television Sets (in other words, a shallower Color Gamut, probably on the blues).

 

That there may have been two Palettes, well, it would force us to correlate what we are getting here (adjusted Color Bars and settings) with OLD and NEWER titles / games, in order to validate (first) if there was ever such duo of color schemes.

 

I'm glad that you admit that it is possible, so BASIC Manual and Atari 400/800 Field Service Manual were not lying

 

I must admit that taking pictures of CRT monitor was technical challenge and great effort.

And I hope that you noticed that adjusting Hue/Phase/Color Balance on your TV is safe and easy

"(The colors vary somewhat according to the adjustment of the hue control on your television set.)" This is quotation from Basic Manual for Atari 130XE.

 

 

I will post a photo of Basic READY screen to prove it is blue later on because I have daylight now

 

And more will follow...

Edited October 1, 2014 by firestorm

[Faicuai]

...Have been researching a bit more here, especially on the fact that the native Color-output (of our Atari machines) seems quite inconsistent, across the board.

 

It seems like the bottom-line of this revolves around the following (thus affecting your work, and anyone trying to nail this Color-jackpot):

 

1. The whole thing starts with HUE-STEP (also linked to Atari's POT / variable resistor). But the difficult part here, is that Hue-Step signal (at a given electrical level) seems to be FED into GTIA itself, and these baseline signal-levels are NOT consistent machine-to-machine or even generation-to-generation.
2. I believe (and others as well) this value may hover anywhere between >24 degrees and <28 degrees, where 24 produces a GREEN bottom-SALT reference Bar, and 28 produces an ORANGISH (with hints of yellow) on such bottom SALT bar. I will go back to my 800's Service Manual and schematics to check this out.
3. Because of the above, it possible to explain why two (or maybe more) Color palettes could be out there: with values of 24, 27 or even more degrees on Hue-Step, you get a totally different BOTTOM-section of the test Color Pattern / Bars in SALT, as well as different reproduction of the 7th-10th bars (where BLUE concentrates). It seems (based on video samples) that Hue-Step has decreased with production over the years (from ~27-28 to ~24-25).
4. I've found DIRECT evidence of the existence and description of DIFFERENT color / reference palettes: the Basic manual (or yours above) is one of them, and the other can be CLEARLY seen in page 26 of "The Atari Connection" publication, Summer 1982, Volume2, Number2. Not just words, but even COLORS (!) can be seen. Worth checking.
5. Having said all this, it is clear that YOUR OWN 800XL is natively outputting a ~25 degrees Hue-Step (because of the bottom SALT's greenish bar), and the palette you are trying to match its output too (Golden top, Light Orange bottom), seems to correspond to another Hue-Step level, much closer to 27-28.
6. At this point, each and everyone of us will be forced to make a fundamental decision on how to calibrate our machines color response:
   1. Approach #1: Respect / Work from the machine's inherent Hue-Step baseline level, thus color-matching the bottom two bars in SuperSalt (plus extra adjustment of Phase). This may yield in a DIFFERENT palette than (say) the one described in Atari Basic's manual, but you be able to also control purity of primaries (that is, how "pure" RED, GREEN and BLUE colors will be displayed by the Atari), with targeted adjustments of Phase (Hue, Tint, Hue-Start). In other words, a more "colorimetrically" correct result, and most titles / SW will show up pretty darn close to how we remember them.
   2. Approach #2: Ignore machine's native Hue-Step level, and force it (via ColorPot) to a higher degree value (closer to 27), to get light-Orange bar at bottom (This can be done in Altirra, as well). Combine it with a slight / minor adjustment of Phase (or Hue-Start or "Tint" / "hue" on the Monitor or video-processor, which will get you the "golden" top-bar in Salt). This will yield much closer to ONE of the Palettes originally described by Atari, but no control of primaries purities, as well as possible hue shifts (hard to control) in some specific regions, affecting titles such as Star Raiders, Zaxxon, Bruce-Lee, Pole Position, F15 Strike Eagle, and many others.

More coming later on FORMAL calibration tools (and references), as provided by Color Alignment tool (APX), which is quite helpful. It DOES allow you to check black / white point, and, most importantly, PRIMARIES PURITY, if you have RED/GREEN/BLUE filters available, for direct visual inspection.

 

Maybe, at the end, we will be able to post some final results / settings, derived from each of the approaches suggested above, and let anyone choose, accordingly.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Faicuai

[firestorm]

1 Faicuai, have you noticed that TV Hue/Phase/Color Balance adjustment I'm presenting and supporting is close to look of PAL computers?

 

2 Adjustment by pot on Atari NTSC do match the colors at the bottom is tight one is only one precise position of pot. I'm saying this from hand on experience.

 

3 Atari Connection illustration seems to show colors in 0 value of luminance (black) but take notice that color 1 is not greenish so the Hue control can't be at it's 0.

 

Please look, judge by yourself..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kr0tki]

Looks like PAL colors are based on this "reference" and it make sense because you can easily make games for both COLOR systems you will get similar colors.

FYI, firestorm, the idea that PAL colors were conciously chosen to reproduce the NTSC setting you have chosen, doesn't hold merit when we consider the mechanism of colour generation in both the NTSC and PAL GTIA.

 

In both the NTSC and PAL versions, hue 1 as generated by the GTIA is always equal to the colorburst signal. In NTSC, this signal is defined as the 180° angle in the YUV colourspace , which is that ugly yellow-green you see when you set your monitor's phase to 0; this colour can be adjusted by the TV's tint/hue/phase setting. But in PAL the colorburst is defined as 135°, which is rusty-orange; and it cannot be changed, as tint adjustment was not required in PAL and most PAL TV's didn't have a tint setting.

 

The other colours just follow from hue 1, both in NTSC and in PAL.

 

So, the particular colours of the PAL GTIA are actually a byproduct of the PAL system's properties, not a concious choice.

 

The whole thing starts with HUE-STEP (also linked to Atari's POT / variable resistor). But the difficult part here, is that Hue-Step signal (at a given electrical level) seems to be FED into GTIA itself, and these baseline signal-levels are NOT consistent machine-to-machine or even generation-to-generation.

Not being an electronics guy, I'd like to ask for a clarification. The voltage level fed to GTIA is adjusted by the colour potentiometer. When you said that the electrical level is inconsistent between machines, did you mean the voltage level that comes into this potentiometer, or the voltage that goes out of the pot and into the GTIA?

 

In any case, the whole point of the colour pot was to wipe out any voltage differences between machines.

 

Approach #1: Respect / Work from the machine's inherent Hue-Step baseline level, (...) Approach #2: Ignore machine's native Hue-Step level, (...)

That's the part I don't understand. How does the notion of "baseline level" even make sense, knowing that this voltage level is a result of the colour pot's adjustment? Edited October 2, 2014 by Kr0tki

[Kr0tki]

But in PAL the colorburst is defined as 135°, which is rusty-orange; and it cannot be changed, as tint adjustment was not required in PAL and most PAL TV's didn't have a tint setting.

Forgot to mention, hue 1 in PAL can be changed by adjusting the color pot.

[Faicuai]

Ok, it is time to let folks freely experiment, and for anyone to report what they see / like.

 

Here is an ULTRA-SIMPLE yet reasonable ACCURATE procedure of reasonable tuning colors (NTSC space). It will consider the aggregate effect of all moving parts (accuracy of color model, your LCD / Monitor, etc.). :

1. What you need:
   1. Altirra >= 2.50 (we will later move to real HW).
   2. "Star Raiders" cartridge image.
   3. Make sure your LCD / Video Processor has its TINT, HUE, PHASE, COLOR, SATURATION settings on a "neutral" position (e.g. NO adjustment, or "zero" / "middle" setting). WRITE DOWN your current settings before neutralizing.
2. How it is done:
   1. Launch Altirra and boot StarRaiders with "ALT+B". Press "Start" then "C" then "S" (activating shields).
   2. Go to Altirra's "System -> Video -> Adjust Colors". WRITE DOWN your settings on the screen, and keep them safe.
   3. Type in the following:

      1. Hue Step: -25.7 (you will pass SuperSalt color bar-match with this setting, quite precisely).

         Brightness: +1%

         Contrast: 97% (for acceptable full-palette color / tonal separation, especially in the brighter region)

         Saturation: between 21% (wide-gamut LCDs) and 25% (narrow-gamut LCDs) (Colors should NOT look overly dense, "electrical".)

         Artifact Phase: 90

         Artifact Sat.: 100

         Artifact Bright: -15

   4. Now, go back to HUE-START slider (right above Hue-Step), and slide TO THE LEFT (while Star Riders running) so shields color (screen above cockpit) becomes a muted blue with some (slight) green. Again, it WILL NOT look greenish. It will still look blueish, but sort of opaque / very slightly green. If it looks visibly green, slightly green, darker green, muddled green, opaque green, IT IS WRONG. Go back to 4, and repeat as necessary.

 

1. Now, TEST / VERIFY settings and resulting colors on ACTUAL titles. This is what you should expect:

   1. APX Color Calibration / Adjustment: when selecting "Three Bars" and then "Color Bars", you will get a screen with a RED, GREEN and BLUE bar. When seeing these bars through RED filter (if you have such filter), the RED should stand out and the others mostly dark. Same with BLUE filter (just the blue visible), and same with GREEN (unless you have presence of Green in the Blue or Red, for example, which may happen for multiple reasons. It's call contamination of Primaries).

   2. Frogger-I: the upper-most scrolling logs should like decidedly brownish, with presence of red. Rich but not bright GREENS around top and bottom, with nice / rich Blues, pink. The swirly snake on top of logs (upper section) is not TOO yellow. It is BRIGHT yellow, a bit paler.

   3. The Goonies: the intro-screen sky SHOULD NOT be blue / pure blue. The sky will have a mix of blue AND purple / violet. Should be in the middle. The red areas in the bottom of the screen (intro) should look a dense but not bright RED (little BLUE or GREEN impurity).

   4. ZAXXON: the scrolling floor and background border IS NOT TRUE BLUE. It is a dense blue with SLIGHT hints of purple / violet (much less than Goonies). It is nice and distinctive (that's how I remember it, since decades ago).

   5. TYPO ATTACK: the color of the moving / typing hands should look dark-gold (hint of very light brown). Should have MINIMAL green-component on them.

   6. POGO-JOE: when going through the intro you will notice a crude "calibration" screen showing up shortly after launching. Press F9 (Altirra Pause), and pay very close attention to the "upper" left rotating head, vs. the RED-color square/patch: the rotating head should look more "red-wine" color, and the RED patch decidedly RED (purer). These are, indeed, DIFFERENT colors. If they appear the same, you have the WRONG colors (or you are simply compressing color response on this region).

   7. RIVER RAID: you will get ligher-blue water-color, NICE / Lush green ground, with scrolling mountains circumscribed with dark reddish / brownish border. The coming crossing bridge IS NOT BROWN. The edges are reddish, the inner edges a bit more dark brown / rust, and the a hint of dark-green in the middle (but quite dark).

   8. PREPPIE: the crossing river IS NOT PURE BLUE. It is a rather pale blue (with a minimal hint of purple/magenta)... but still light-blue. Preppie's skin seems "pinkish" on the slight-dark side (not BRIGHT / PALE pink).

   9. SALMON RUN: a DENSE, LUSH blue-like background (not deep / dark), with similarly rich green (but not too bright, either). Very nice.

NOTES:

1. If you have solid evidence that the above Color reproduction is NOT ACCURATE, please, feel free to post it.

 

Enjoy!

Edited October 2, 2014 by Faicuai

[firestorm]

Faicuai, how then we can explain this?

 

 

http://www.atarimania.com/documents/Atari_LOGO_Introduction_to_Programming_Through_Turtle_Graphics.pdf

 

Atari Logo, Introduction to Programming Through Turtle Graphics, page 49

 

Bug Box on it says "Colors may vary depending upon The type of TV, monitor, condition and color adjustment."

You know well that my Atari 800XL is perfectly color adjusted, all is about TV, monitor setting.

 

Why Atari documents repeat over and over again you should see certain colors if not adjust your TV?

 

How many more Atari documents I have produce to prove my point?

 

Star Raiders vs Atari Manuals?

 

This topic is to find the truth behind certain color descriptions but not to deny them rights to coexist.

Edited October 2, 2014 by firestorm

[firestorm]

Faicuai, where I can find APX Color Calibratin file?

[Faicuai]

Faicuai, please then explain this:

 

 

http://www.atarimania.com/documents/Atari_LOGO_Introduction_to_Programming_Through_Turtle_Graphics.pdf

 

Atari Logo, Introduction to Programming Through Turtle Graphics, page 49

 

Bug Box on it says "Colors may vary depending upon The type of TV, monitor, condition and color adjustment."

You know well that my Atari 800XL is perfectly color adjusted, all is about TV, monitor setting.

 

Why Atari documents repeat over and over again you should see certain colors if not adjust your TV?

 

How many more Atari documents I have produce to prove my point?

 

Star Raiders vs Atari Manuals?

 

This topic is to find the truth behind certain color descriptions but not to deny them rights to coexist.

 

 

1. You WILL NOT get a colorimetrically-accurate RUST / GOLD color for 2nd-color Bar and Last Color Bar, at least on RGB domain / color space. It is NOT HAPPENING. Period.

2. Here's the MAN, the CREATOR, the DESIGNER of Star Raiders himself (if you are not getting this color response, you have dialed the WRONG settings). If you are getting this color response, please, confirm and state so, together will all the settings you are considering (as well as UNDISTURBED response in most other titles):

http://dougneubauer.com/starraiders/

 

 

Now, having said this, the actual conversion of NTSC Color-Space to YUV and then RGB involves a bit more advanced math, it is error prone (if not done quite accurately), it is subject to COLOR GAMUT differences (CRT vs. LCD), it is not fully clear what is the real Hue-Step degrees that GTIA uses (24? 27? more?), and there are CLEAR color-response variations reported from Atari to Atari, visible even during SuperSALT Color-calibration screen (bottom-most Color Bar is different between machines, specifically the REFERENCE bar, the one that DOES NOT change while rotating the POT). My 800XL shows one thing, and my 800/Incognito shows another, for instance.

 

Nevertheless, target-matching color response to an old color-reference (which is ONE of several available), while ignoring the REAL effects on titles, games, and actual colorimetrical accuracy, is not something I would openly advice. The end result, today (without a QUANTITAVE definition of the color-coordinates and space that Atari was actually targeting) will necessarily involve a balance of all these variables (not just a biased, pushed-through-your-throat Phase adjustment on your CRT monitor that, mind you, is just shuffling around your machines REAL color response, to begin with).

 

My 0.02c

Edited October 2, 2014 by Faicuai

[firestorm]

Oh come on Faicuai, just look up and you find my pictures of this Light Orange(Gold)

[firestorm]

It's time for Summer Games

 

 

 

 

Colors may vary depending upon TV hue setting...

Edited October 2, 2014 by firestorm

[firestorm]

Dig Dug?

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2014 by firestorm