Homebrews No Longer Obtainable?

[+Andrew Davie]

And probably "Draconian" soon, rather than "Boulder Dash" soon.

 

That's a bit draconian....

[hizzy]

Nathan is maybe my favorite reviewer, he is frank and constructive with his reviews.

 

 

I second this!

[StanJr]

Yeah, I always look for Nathan's reviews when I'm shopping in the AA store. Since I started buying and reviewing one homebrew per month, I've been making an effort to be more critical and less general when I review a game. I gave Titan Axe only 3 stars (before it was yanked). I think it has been difficult for me to be as nit-picky since I understand how much effort, time, and talent it takes to produce these games. I find myself forgiving of things I would otherwise be critical of in a game from the original era. I'm trying to break that habit and just review them based on how much I enjoy them.

 

The other problem is that pesky Atariage quality standard. Very few 2 star games make the cut, so it's hard to find a solid loser in the store. Now I could review a few of the shovelware pieces from other online sellers of 2600 games and give them a good roasting, but I prefer to spend my time and money on the good stuff.

 

Of course I say all of this as I am about to write a love letter to Darrell over Stay Frosty 2 in a couple of weeks...

 

 

Thomas, Thrust+ is STILL too hard for me. Make me a new game that's easier and not finesse based.

Edited June 20, 2017 by StanJr

[Keatah]

Ahh yes Thrust.. I would prefer a lighter gravity field. Seems like I am constantly wrestling with balancing the ship, keeping it in position, or moving it.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I gave Titan Axe only 3 stars (before it was yanked).

Titan Axe got yanked? Why?

 

EDIT: Nevermind.

https://atariage.com/store/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1049

 

 

The other problem is that pesky Atariage quality standard. Very few 2 star games make the cut, so it's hard to find a solid loser in the store. Now I could review a few of the shovelware pieces from other online sellers of 2600 games and give them a good roasting, but I prefer to spend my time and money on the good stuff.

Yeah, I've bought a couple of bums from Good Deal Games.

 

Like, compare Shoot the UFO (Good Deal Games) to Meteor Shower by (AtariAge / Bob Decrescendo). The objective of both games is almost identical (move ship left and right and shoot vertically to destroy falling objects), but there is no comparison to the gameplay. I almost fell asleep playing Shoot the UFO, but I could play Meteor Shower over and over for hours.

 

Not ragging to call out on Shoot the UFO, as there is nothing broken or bad about the gameplay, but it goes to show the level of care that went into most of the AtariAge releases are largely absent from game releases on other sites. And worse, some of these are "limited" meaning if you sit and think about it, it may be gone later...

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Ahh yes Thrust.. I would prefer a lighter gravity field. Seems like I am constantly wrestling with balancing the ship, keeping it in position, or moving it.

That's how the game works. Less gravity? Never!

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Titan Axe got yanked? Why?

 

EDIT: Nevermind.

https://atariage.com/store/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1049

I think he is referring to this.

[Mr SQL]

Ahh yes Thrust.. I would prefer a lighter gravity field. Seems like I am constantly wrestling with balancing the ship, keeping it in position, or moving it.

 

Thrust is a Lunar Lander variant not Defender, I also find it excessively challenging but the title screen music on the Platnium edition is awesome!

 

Requesting changes to a game really depends on how open the developer is to your feedback; I made a lot of additions to STARBLITZ including extra game characters, playable title screens and even a switchable 30 HZ/60 HZ setting despite that the latter broke the super smooth animation.

[Mayhem]

Thrust is a Gravitar variant heh.

[+Andrew Davie]

That's how the game works. Less gravity? Never!

 

But... Thrust plus plus plus could have different planets to fly on! Never say never. Except when you're talking about releasing a Boulder Dash binary against the wishes of the IP owner.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I think he is referring to this.

Wow. F rating. I haven't visited the Video Game Critic in a while. He seems very opinionated, and I have enjoyed a handful of games he assigned D or D-, and less frequently, F. I have also on occasion not enjoyed games he praised.

 

At least he is honest with the assessment, even if brutally so. I saw Titan Axe in the AA store but passed on it, not because it didn't have an inventive concept, but because the style of gameplay being simulated here really doesn't work well with the 2600 hardware limitations. At a minimum, you need discrete jump and attack buttons. Better beat em up / dungeon exploration game experiences to be had on NES and Genesis honestly.

[StanJr]

I think he's a little hasty in reviewing the game. I spent 2 hours playing it and managed to beat it on EASY. The manual explains what the fairies are, so I get the feeling this review was a bit of a rush job. I see why, though. If you play the game for 5 minutes, then you toss it in the pile and play Lady Bug, but if you stick with it, you figure out most everything. I'm not saying the game is good. It's troubled, but having played the game as much as I have, I feel that VGC's review is a bit limited.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I see why, though. If you play the game for 5 minutes, then you toss it in the pile and play Lady Bug, but if you stick with it, you figure out most everything.

People said similar things about ET. If you spend more than five minutes with the game, hang in there, it gets better. Nope, just keeps falling in pit after pit...

 

There's something to be said when someone buys a bad game, then tries to rationalize their purchase by playing it and finding some redeeming quality about it. Many of us experienced turds as a kid. Jeckle and Hyde, Superman 64 , ET. Thems make for some looooonng summers. I think at some point we simply gave up and went outside and rode our bikes until the sun went down. Throw rocks in the pond and talk about girls and stuff...

 

EDIT: Totally not ragging on Titan Axe. I haven't played it, but it would be kinda hard to beat out ie Golden Axe on the Turbo Grafx.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I think he's a little hasty in reviewing the game.

I am pretty sure he did, because he explicitly stated that:

I suspect there's a decent game in this Titan Axe cartridge somewhere, but I can't find it, and it's not for a lack of effort.

[StanJr]

I'm not trying to justify anything. I'm perfectly happy to buy a crap pile and call it a crap pile. I'm just saying, despite VGC's ardent defense that he really put effort into the game, it was my experience that there is more to the game than just a complete mess and I'm not sure how a reviewer of his caliber could come away from such serious effort into a game with such a throw away review. But maybe I'm just being catty. It's ok. I also love Uncanny X-men for the NES and the aforementioned E.T. so I'm sure I'm the problem.

[+KaeruYojimbo]

I get the impression from several of the Video Game Critic's that he didn't read the manual and gave the game a poor rating because he couldn't figure it out in 5 minutes of random fiddling about. His review of Titan Axe was pretty harsh but, to be fair, if you have to spend ten minutes getting sort of but still not entirely comfortable with the control scheme, even with the manual, that's a pretty major flaw. I thought the backgrounds were pretty cluttered and jumbled as well, trying to do too much with the low-res playfield graphics.

 

The author's attitude didn't help either. Throughout the game's development thread and after the game was released to the store, his attitude was essentially, "If you don't think this is the greatest 2600 game ever made, it's because you're too stupid to appreciate it." He took constructive criticism as personal attacks. He went off on the person who wrote the review on the store page because he only gave it four stars. I don't like to admit it, but his attitude actually kept me from trying any of the games he started after Titan Axe.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

The author's attitude didn't help either. Throughout the game's development thread and after the game was released to the store, his attitude was essentially, "If you don't think this is the greatest 2600 game ever made, it's because you're too stupid to appreciate it."

I just searched for the thread and browsed through it. The author is definitely not prepared to accept constructive criticism.

[Mr SQL]

I get the impression from several of the Video Game Critic's that he didn't read the manual and gave the game a poor rating because he couldn't figure it out in 5 minutes of random fiddling about. His review of Titan Axe was pretty harsh but, to be fair, if you have to spend ten minutes getting sort of but still not entirely comfortable with the control scheme, even with the manual, that's a pretty major flaw. I thought the backgrounds were pretty cluttered and jumbled as well, trying to do too much with the low-res playfield graphics.

 

The author's attitude didn't help either. Throughout the game's development thread and after the game was released to the store, his attitude was essentially, "If you don't think this is the greatest 2600 game ever made, it's because you're too stupid to appreciate it." He took constructive criticism as personal attacks. He went off on the person who wrote the review on the store page because he only gave it four stars. I don't like to admit it, but his attitude actually kept me from trying any of the games he started after Titan Axe.

 

I'm pretty impressed with Papa's games - particularly Street Fight World and Outrun. Give them a try, I think you'll definitely like those two. He's also open minded and was one of the few programmers to try SuperCharger/Flashback BASIC and has a really interesting RPG under development with it.

 

Critics should be open minded too else the constructive criticism is not particularly constructive, I think the warps and recharge areas make Titan Axe a lot of fun and add more depth but you're definitely not going to make it through the game if you can't figure them out - those are RPG elements which are really cool to see in a fighting game. Go with Street Fight world if you want a pure fighter.

[+Ryan Witmer]

While this thread has strayed a bit, I've been following it for a while, since this is a topic that I find very interesting.

 

I'm new to the homebrew scene, but not to game programming in general. My first release is in the upcoming batch of games (Ratcatcher, for the 5200) and I'm already knee-deep in a follow-up project.

 

I've purchased several titles from the AtariAge store, and I buy them because I want the cartridges. For example, I had the 5200 Millipede ROM on a flash-cart, but still bought a copy on cartridge from Albert at PRGE one year. The cartridges are just fun things to own, and those are what motivate me.

 

When I finished Ratcatcher, I made the ROM (and source code, GPL3 licensed) available immediately. I had no plans for a store release at that time (I was just going to have a couple cartridges made for myself) but the response to the game was positive enough to lead to a store release.

 

This is a pattern I plan to repeat with all of my projects. It's more important to me to get the game, and more importantly the code, out there for people to use. The attraction of the store release is in the excellent physical production values of not just the cartridge, but also the manual and box. The game is only part of that picture, and people that are only interested in the game probably don't want to pay for that stuff anyway, so they may as well have the ROM to play with.

 

I have no worries about any of my projects becoming unavailable and disappearing into the ether. With not just the ROM, but also the code available, some enterprising individual can even improve my work or create something new based on it. That's far more important to me than anything else.

[+Nathan Strum]

I'm not trying to justify anything. I'm perfectly happy to buy a crap pile and call it a crap pile. I'm just saying, despite VGC's ardent defense that he really put effort into the game, it was my experience that there is more to the game than just a complete mess and I'm not sure how a reviewer of his caliber could come away from such serious effort into a game with such a throw away review.

 

I haven't reviewed Titan Axe (yet), but I did have to play it quite a bit to make the AA video of it (and I did read the manual). I found it to be an effectively uncontrollable mess - akin to Karate. I thought your review was right on the money with:

 

Sadly as mentioned above, the limitations of the system, specifically the controller, shackle Titan Axe and keep it from reaching the heights it so desperately wishes to achieve. To put it bluntly, the fighting system is clunky at best and rage-inducing at worst.

 

The whole game is the fighting system.

 

A programmer attempting to push the boundaries of the system is an admirable goal. But if it's being published as a game (as opposed to just an experiment or tech demo), then all that matters is the end result.

 

See also: Merlin's Walls.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Nathan, if it is really is as bad as you describe, why did Al chose to release it? I am sure you told him your feelings about it.

BTW: The review linked states that the game was removed from the AA store, but it is still there.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Thomas Jentzsch

[+Nathan Strum]

Nathan, if it is really is as bad as you describe, why did Al chose to release it? I am sure you told him your feelings about it.

 

I usually let him know my opinions if there's a stinker in the bunch, but the games are already slated for release before I ever make videos for them (and yes... many of the AA store videos are of my terrible game-playing abilities). I don't know Al's criteria for including or excluding a particular game. I suspect for Titan Axe some of it could be tied to the uniqueness of it. I'm unaware of any other beat-'em-up homebrews.

 

Anyway - your link to the game's page has already been changed to "Item not available for viewing", neatly bringing this thread back on-topic.

[Albert]

Anyway - your link to the game's page has already been changed to "Item not available for viewing", neatly bringing this thread back on-topic.

 

I intended to remove the game after Jay's most recent blowup where he publicly (and rudely) attacked me (again), but I was out of town at the time. This thread reminded me that i had forgotten to do so upon my return.

 

As to why I added the game to the store, it is fairly unique amongst 2600 homebrews (and 2600 games in general). I know Jay put a lot of time into it, and that does show in many aspects of the game. And partly I wanted to encourage him to continue to develop his skills as a homebrew developer. I do agree it's difficult to learn the controls, and that can be off-putting. I don't think it deserves as much negative attention as it receives, putting aside for now the abrasiveness of the author. But it hasn't been well-received, and that is another good reason to ultimately pull it from the store.

 

..Al

[+save2600]

One of the things I love about the AA Store is that most/all of the games deserve to be there. As if they have to have an "AtariAge seal of quality" to make the cut.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I usually let him know my opinions if there's a stinker in the bunch, but the games are already slated for release before I ever make videos for them (and yes... many of the AA store videos are of my terrible game-playing abilities). I don't know Al's criteria for including or excluding a particular game. I suspect for Titan Axe some of it could be tied to the uniqueness of it. I'm unaware of any other beat-'em-up homebrews.

 

Anyway - your link to the game's page has already been changed to "Item not available for viewing", neatly bringing this thread back on-topic.

I intended to remove the game after Jay's most recent blowup where he publicly (and rudely) attacked me (again), but I was out of town at the time. This thread reminded me that i had forgotten to do so upon my return.

This is sad. I guess I missed whatever drama between the author of the game. Good artists, programmers, whatever need to be able to accept criticism.

 

As to why I added the game to the store, it is fairly unique amongst 2600 homebrews (and 2600 games in general). I know Jay put a lot of time into it, and that does show in many aspects of the game. And partly I wanted to encourage him to continue to develop his skills as a homebrew developer. I do agree it's difficult to learn the controls, and that can be off-putting. I don't think it deserves as much negative attention as it receives, putting aside for now the abrasiveness of the author. But it hasn't been well-received, and that is another good reason to ultimately pull it from the store.

 

..Al

Cest La Vie. I wasn't planning on buying it as it didn't look very fun based on the video and screenshots. Sometimes a 16-bit genre just can't be shoehorned into an Atari 2600 ecosystem, though there are exceptions like Zippy.