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Homebrews No Longer Obtainable?


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#26 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:22 AM

Mostly I'm mad at myself for missing out.

It is sad but true: eventually mother nature will strike and then a copy may become available.

#27 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:33 AM

It is sad but true: eventually mother nature will strike and then a copy may become available.

Mother nature? Don't you mean economy? People need money or change hobbies or otherwise do some house cleaning and sell their crap.

 

Mother nature is more likely to destroy stuff, ie flood, fire, tornado, earthquake, etc...



#28 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:09 AM

Mother nature is more likely to destroy stuff, ie flood, fire, tornado, earthquake, etc...

...life.



#29 Crazy Climber OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:54 AM

 

Ouch. I actually started the releases due to demand for the games. I was perfectly happy to have my own copies and to leave it at that. I could easily double the number of copies of each game and they would sell but even 50-60 copies is way too much work.

Okay, have a little more time to better explain my response as I can see you took it wrong and that was not what I wanted :)

Many people buy limited edition games (especially unique homebrews) instantly because they know thats the only way they are going to get them. There are many people that just want to play them and are happy with a loose cart AA store style. You have small enough runs where they are going to sell regardless BUT if they were for sure going to be available in the AA store after the limited edition release and you did runs of say 100, I do believe, some of your customers would wait. I'm not saying you do it on purpose, I'm not saying you are trying to create false rarity, I'm just saying the only way to get your releases is to buy during the small runs you do then they are gone forever so thats got to make some people pull the trigger, and fast. I was unaware your games are original homebrews until I got Stranglehold (really the nice Marc box is what pulled me in), I thought they were hacks/etc, now that I know they are homebrews I will be on every list immediately and I will now be offering high amounts of money for the ones I missed as I am a "catch em all" style atari 2600 homebrew guy. If I knew they were going to be available in the store later I may postpone some of the purchases to fund other releases that disappear. I don't have a ton of cash so if somethings going to be available forever, I generally put it on hold. Again, not meant as an insult, don't ban me from the Sharknado list, lol ;)

I hope this better explains what I mean though, limited editions sell better, it's true in any Homebrew community. I'm not crazy about it, but I do like owning them. I don't know...it's a catch 22 really...

 

I think that's an unfair argument. Not many people want or can afford everything. Like many gamers, there are titles that don't interest me.

I've got in excess of 25 AtariAge homebrews, and a Sentinel Repro by CPUWiz. Won't touch Hozer's stuff though. Currently my only Atari Homebrew outside of official AtariAge releases is Endless Snow, and also the PMP Multicart for 7800. I plan on picking up PMP's 320 mode Pacman homebrews as well some point in the future. Not sure who to ask about those though or if they're still being offered. I've already got every Pacman port available in the AA store and plan on getting a standalone Pacman Collection as well even though I technically own it in the PMP Multicart.

It's not a one size fits all statement, but it does apply to many people myself included. Put an LE game (like Boulder Dash for instance) on Ebay, watch it hit $200+, that same amount of money could have purchased 8 to 10 Homebrews from the AA store. People want stuff they can't have, it makes it more collectable, more desirable, it's just human nature, lol. I do want every Atari 2600 homebrew and I have paid higher amounts for limited edition games I missed while there are still plenty of great games available, I am trying not to do that, but, arghhh, just want them more because they are gone!! I'm not the only one either, get what I mean :)



#30 Shawn OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:30 AM

Stacker was limited to 50 units as that is all LAI Games would give me a license for and they are all long gone.

The binary is online to be played though. The cool thing is that LAI Games protects the hell out of that property

so if any fake copies ever showed up on ebay,ect.  LAI Games wouldn't just be knocking on their door they

would be knocking in the door.



#31 godzillajoe OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:50 AM

Stacker was limited to 50 units as that is all LAI Games would give me a license for and they are all long gone.

The binary is online to be played though. The cool thing is that LAI Games protects the hell out of that property

so if any fake copies ever showed up on ebay,ect.  LAI Games wouldn't just be knocking on their door they

would be knocking in the door.

 

What is Stacker?  I think I missed that one.

 

Never mind.  Found it.


Edited by godzillajoe, Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:59 AM.


#32 Video OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:14 PM

limited editions of games is cool, that gives you something that can be quiet collectable, even if the game turns out not to be. But to limit the whole run, that's another matter. I know I go months, sometimes years between purchases because I'm a working class person. I simply don't have the money...and by the time I do have money, there's usually so many to chose from that the others get forgotten. Having something in the store makes me more likely to buy that.

Hell, there are some weeks I don't get on the internet (just don't worship it like everybody expects me to)...so a run for a week or two can quiet easily be missed...assuming I ever knew about it in the first place.

Of course I do understand limited ones when people are using questionable licenses (or for runs as small as homebrews tend to be, no license) or games with hard to find, or custom parts used. But for the most part, they tend to be more easily mass produceable, well, as mass as it gets for homebrews.

#33 toptenmaterial OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:25 AM

Does AA still do one off repros? What about of these home brews?

#34 Albert OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:50 AM

Does AA still do one off repros?


Yes.

What about of these home brews?


As long as the author has granted permission, I'm glad to do so.

..Al

#35 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:09 AM

 

That's fair. You possibly could strip the copyrighted material out and keep the gameplay intact, and then give it to Albert. I'd like to play some of these, but I don't always have the cash on hand whenever it comes up.

 

He strikes a pretty good balance already, methinks.  Stranglehand is the free homebrew version of Strangeland. http://atariage.com/...anglehand-done/

 

Neotokeo2001 gives me quite a bit of leeway so those who really dig collectables can do their thing and those who want to just play my games don't miss out.



#36 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:41 PM

Yes.


As long as the author has granted permission, I'm glad to do so.

..Al

If the final version ROM is publicly available buried somewhere in the AA forums, is it safe to assume we can have a one off copy made?



#37 Albert OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:51 AM

If the final version ROM is publicly available buried somewhere in the AA forums, is it safe to assume we can have a one off copy made?


I prefer to get permission from the author before a cart is made. If a game hasn't been produced in official fashion and/or is no longer available, the answer is almost always going to be "Yes".

..Al

#38 RamrodHare OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 6, 2017 9:22 AM

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but it was either that or start a new one just like it..  :(

 

Here's what I'm wondering about.

 

Developers put the time and effort into making a game. Most of them do it for fun (I'm no programmer, but honestly I can't see how all that work is considered fun).They don't get much, if any, money from it. Then, they release a limited run of carts and that's it. (Some of them do this, not all). That system hurts people who are late hearing about it or too broke to buy a copy. They end up left out out. I mean, if the developer wanted people to play and enjoy their game, why do it this way? Now don't misunderstand me here.The developer has the right to do whatever he wishes with his work and I'll defend his right to do that 100%! I'm just wondering though, if people really are making the games because they enjoy it and want to share it with others, why not release the roms for personal use (possibly in a slightly altered form) after they stop selling the carts? Everyday I find out about great homebrew games that I'll never be able to play because the rom isn't availible and there are no copies of that game to be found anywhere online. Given the chance, I would buy the developers cart, to show my support. I'd also pay to use the rom (again, supporting the developer). I understand the frustration a developer must feel if they release the rom and then see bootleg carts showing up on eBay, but that's a risk  when they make a cart too..  I guess it's a double-edged sword when it comes to putting the roms out there for people to enjoy. I just wish there was a way to play some of the out of production games that people are always raving about. :(



#39 Atari-Collector OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 6, 2017 1:21 PM

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but it was either that or start a new one just like it..  :(

 

Here's what I'm wondering about.

 

Developers put the time and effort into making a game. Most of them do it for fun (I'm no programmer, but honestly I can't see how all that work is considered fun).They don't get much, if any, money from it. Then, they release a limited run of carts and that's it. (Some of them do this, not all). That system hurts people who are late hearing about it or too broke to buy a copy. They end up left out out. I mean, if the developer wanted people to play and enjoy their game, why do it this way? Now don't misunderstand me here.The developer has the right to do whatever he wishes with his work and I'll defend his right to do that 100%! I'm just wondering though, if people really are making the games because they enjoy it and want to share it with others, why not release the roms for personal use (possibly in a slightly altered form) after they stop selling the carts? Everyday I find out about great homebrew games that I'll never be able to play because the rom isn't availible and there are no copies of that game to be found anywhere online. Given the chance, I would buy the developers cart, to show my support. I'd also pay to use the rom (again, supporting the developer). I understand the frustration a developer must feel if they release the rom and then see bootleg carts showing up on eBay, but that's a risk  when they make a cart too..  I guess it's a double-edged sword when it comes to putting the roms out there for people to enjoy. I just wish there was a way to play some of the out of production games that people are always raving about. :(

 

Speaking as somebody that use to write a fair amount of shareware software, I can say at the time I used to enjoy programming.  But as time went on and sales dropped because most of my software was designed for specific hardware (like the old Snappy Video Snapshot, and model train controls) as that hardware became obsolete.  So I slowly lost interest in writing new software. (although I still maintain my .com domain)  The point is interests change and support a program forever is not practical.  But if somebody were to contact me about one of my old programs I'd probably just give them a copy now or ask for a few dollars to cover my time..

 

As for homebrew games..  I have never bought any.  I've seen a few I'd like to get, but when you add the cost of shipping to Canada it's just a turn off and there's still tons of original games I don't have.  Seems a lot of places pick the most expensive way only to ship to Canada.  That's why I haven't got a 7800 yet..  I've seen shipping on the as high at $100 US, but that's getting off topic..

    I don't worry or care about limited editions or stuff like that.  I just want something that's good.


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#40 SIO2 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 6, 2017 4:51 PM

I like the game on the right in the photo. :)

IMG_20170606_164544.jpg

#41 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 7, 2017 12:27 AM

I like the game on the right in the photo. :)

attachicon.gifIMG_20170606_164544.jpg

Reminds me of the Saloon in the bonus round in Bandai Shooting Range for NES. Fun game; I've beaten it multiple times...



#42 RamrodHare OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 7, 2017 7:49 PM

The two games I've been dying to play on my Harmony cart are Army of Darkness and Alien Ooze. I managed to find Bifrost and Ooze, so I can at least enjoy the gameplay, even if I don't have the same graphics.  I'm happy with Bifrost, but the ship on Alien Ooze is just so awesome! :-D There's a copy of Alien Ooze on ebay and if I had the extra money, I would bid on it, but I can't afford it after just buying a Harmony Encore and having quite a few other items already lined up for purchase. I'm really hoping that the rom of Alien Ooze eventually gets put out there for us all to enjoy. I'm not sure who the developer is, or how to contact him about the rom or else I would have already been begging for a copy! :_(  I did however contact the developer of Ooze to see if he could point me in the right direction, since the gameplay seems to be pretty much the same, but I haven't heard back from him yet. 



#43 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 8, 2017 12:53 AM

^^You do bring up a valid point. While it is considered unethical to dump and disseminate homebrew ROMs as long as the author is actively selling it, there comes a point in time where homebrew games get orphaned much as is the case with back in the day games. Perhaps the developer disappears or wherabouts unknown, and obscure homebrew games get traded by collectors. These are treasures just like back in the day games and need to be preserved. We cannot count on the original developers to preserve their games especially in the event of data loss, suppose a developer drops out of the community losing all contact through the internet, or even dies! If the code vanishes with the programmer, there are limited copies available, typically much smaller runs although homebrews tend to stay in collector circles moreso than back in the day games. They should be preserved by someone, safeguarded perhaps from online leaks until a span of time has elapsed. The current copyright is far too lengthy, so perhaps a 20 year baseline? If a game has not been actively sold for 20 years, or perhaps ten years, then release the ROM?

 

What if something happened to Albert, to this site? What of the AtariAge store games that don't have public dumps? Suppose Melody is discontinued? How does IP stay in circulation so that future gamers can enjoy, whether on real hardware or emulation? Year 2050, Albert is deceased, AtariAge is no more, and existing Melody homebrews are starting to bit rot. Who has the hardware to reflash these Melody boards? Is it too late to reflash if no publicly available clean dump exists?

 

Do all games ultimately end up in the giant recycle bin in the sky where all lost data goes? Game consoles ultimately break down into lumps of plastic and metal and silicon, and ultimately return to dust of the Earth from whence they came??? :sad:



#44 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 8, 2017 12:56 AM

I think this discussion deserves its own topic.

We should also include what happens to collections, private websites, source code, tools etc. when the owner deceases.

#45 SIO2 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 8, 2017 4:44 AM

By 2050 humanity will be enslaved by Googleon droids so, better play Atari while you can.

#46 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 8, 2017 5:01 AM

I think this discussion deserves its own topic.

We should also include what happens to collections, private websites, source code, tools etc. when the owner deceases.

It gives pause for thought. People have finite lives but the stuffs we leave behind may live on, or go into landfills, or become forgotten relics. How does this stuff get curated so that it is not forgotten? ROMs getting shared through online repositories seems to be a safe bet. Orphaned homebrews will pose a challenge due to extremely small print runs, without publicly available ROMs to back them up.

 

Also long term "volatile" storage, ie EPROMs and Flash, which all homebrews use, have shorter life expectancy than we do. EPROMs have life expectancy of 30 years, flash around 10, but in practice may last much longer. As an example, SRAM CR3032 batteries were only guaranteed for 5-10 years but some are pushing 30 and still work. Many went dead after 20 so those old NES games, are a crap shoot if they still save or not. However with bit rot, you don't lose a save file; you lose the entire game. Mask ROMs will outlive the case plastics of the games though. 200 years from now, they will still be readable. As far as consoles go, the electrolytic caps seem to be the achillies heel of solid state components, but "capacitor plague" did not become an issue until the 1990s due to knock offs with improper formulation.

 

Will people play Atari and Nintendo games in 100 years? 200? Who the hell knows... :skull:



#47 gauauu OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 8, 2017 10:46 AM

That's why I like to release my game ROM for free.  There will still be collectors and interested people who will buy a physical copy, but for those that miss out on the physical copy (or just want to try the game without spending money), they can just download it.  But then, I'm more interested in just the fun of making games and having people play them, some folks are more interested in the profit, and I guess this method cuts into profit.

 

The hard part for me has been figuring out the right license -- I usually want to allow people to view and play with the source, freely download and use the ROM, but I want to reserve the right to produce and sell physical copies.  Not being a lawyer (and not feeling like hiring one), I never figured out the best license for that.



#48 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 8, 2017 11:03 AM

My origin is the old [stella] mailing list. There we never cared for legal stuff and I always hoped this would never become necessary. And even after some shit happened to me, I prefer to refrain from such legal bullshit. I usually write some general remarks in the accompanying documents, because I don't like to care for this or feel forced to restrict myself.

 

Last not least I have strong trust in the integrity of the Atari community (with the usual unavoidable exceptions).



#49 Prosystemsearch OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 8, 2017 11:22 AM

I'm sure that games that got an official C&D(such as Princess Rescue and the Etch-A-Sketch Starpath tape game) might still be obtainaable via used copies on Ebay, or by plunging into the deep web's many areas... Just saying.



#50 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 9, 2017 12:42 AM

I'm sure that games that got an official C&D(such as Princess Rescue and the Etch-A-Sketch Starpath tape game) might still be obtainaable via used copies on Ebay, or by plunging into the deep web's many areas... Just saying.

You should try using the search function more... :lol:
http://atariage.com/...ased/?p=2801638




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