iD Software John Carmack interview UK Edge magazine by Lost Dragon

[JagChris]

Porting Quake 2 to a stock Falcon, and figuring that Quake 1 might be somewhat doable on the Jaguar... dml, you my friend are one bad ass coder. I will keep an eye on your Quake 2 to Falcon project. I dont have a Falcon, and dont plan on getting one, but the project is very interesting.

 

He is not porting. He is rebuilding. From scratch for the Falcon. But it's not for making Quake 2 on the Falcon. It's mostly an experiment to see how far he can go.

 

Amen.

[dml]

Well thanks for the comments on progress, especially given this a Jag area and not a Falcon/ST forum - although I should say thanks also to all the A.F. members who put up with me over there

 

I also agree with anyone who has given the opinion that it would be *hard* to implement a Quake based engine on the Jag. That is certainly true. I just suggest that it is doable, that past Jag games (especially from that time!) are not proof of hard limits - and that if JC was curious to try it at the time I'm sure he would have got results.

[JagChris]

Well thanks for the comments on progress, especially given this a Jag area and not a Falcon/ST forum - although I should say thanks also to all the A.F. members who put up with me over there

 

I also agree with anyone who has given the opinion that it would be *hard* to implement a Quake based engine on the Jag. That is certainly true. I just suggest that it is doable, that past Jag games (especially from that time!) are not proof of hard limits - and that if JC was curious to try it at the time I'm sure he would have got results.

 

I don't have a Falcon and I also have no intention of getting one. But that blog is so fascinating to read. And don't let any of them clowns over there sceaming IMPOSSIBRU! deter you from trying to go as far as you can on the Falcon.

 

And no one here has ever doubted doing Quake on the Jaguar would be hard to do. Definitely a hard target.

Edited October 22, 2014 by JagChris

[Chilly Willy]

Well thanks for the comments on progress, especially given this a Jag area and not a Falcon/ST forum - although I should say thanks also to all the A.F. members who put up with me over there

I read through the thread over at A.F. - you are doing some awesome things. I was wondering if perhaps you could write up a little article on a modern approach to a software renderer... like that old Dr. Dobbs series Chris Hecker did so long ago showing the proper way to do an affine mapper, but now updated to pseudo-perspective correct. A whole new generation could use tips from the pro in a sadly neglected area of graphics.

[dml]

Hi,

 

Well it's a nice idea - I might do something along those lines for engine programming, although so many techniques covered in those threads have since lost value for all but developing on retro hardware (maybe not quite, but close).

 

Still it's good practice to crunch these problems, for working in other areas - there may be some middle ground that has some interest value.

[high voltage]

Nice to see these uploads are appreciated.

 

For me, one day before driving 1000 miles across Europe (well, Germany, Belgium, France, England, Wales), but as Arnold sez: I'll be back

[Chilly Willy]

Hi,

 

Well it's a nice idea - I might do something along those lines for engine programming, although so many techniques covered in those threads have since lost value for all but developing on retro hardware (maybe not quite, but close).

 

Still it's good practice to crunch these problems, for working in other areas - there may be some middle ground that has some interest value.

Besides the educational value, it does indeed have real value for those of us still working on old consoles. For example, this would be awesome for Saturn homebrew as the hardware acceleration is of warped quads. The SH2 seems like a good target given the small tidbits tossed out in the thread at AF. You have a fast multiplier, and multiply and accumulate operations. You also have two SH2s, allowing some work to be offloaded - kinda like the DSP in the Falcon.

[Lost Dragon]

http://3do.cdinteractive.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3564

 

For any who have missed it.Dave Taylor kindly sparing me the time to chat regarding his thoughts on Jaguar hardware and possibility of I.D doing Quake on the Jaguar.Very refreshing interview i must admit and until someone can point me in the direction of this mythical interview where carmack has said he had Quake Engine running on Jaguar, optimised code, better lighting than Doom etc etc....i'm going with Dave's viewpoint that Id simply looked at how Wolfenstien and Doom had done on Jaguar at retail and knew it was commercially not worth bringing Quake to the Jaguar.Carmack might well have done some test code..but in terms of mag claims game was 30% complete? i'm simply not seeing it.

 

Too many developers/publishers have stated now Jaguar was far too risky to really back, in terms of devoting time and money developing software for.

[Gregory DG]

I think Quake could be done, albeit in a more limited manner than the PC version. Shoot, someone ported Quake 1 and 2 to the Nintendo DS, why not the Jag?!

 

http://quake.drunkencoders.com/index_q1.html

[Lost Dragon]

Someone with the coding skills and time required probably could 'pull off' a 'version' of Quake and from a technical perspective it'd make for an interesting talking point to see how Jag hardware was used, what comprimises had to be made and at what expense was something kept, whilst something else removed etc.

 

I always recal Lobotomy saying if they had resources (time etc) avaiable, they'd of tackled PS1 Quake at a time 7 other developers had tried and failed to port PC code to PS1, but even they had to comprimise final Saturn Quake over early code shown to press (so foes became a mess when viewed from afar).

 

Epic told Edge they could of done Unreal on N64, but did'nt want to comprimise the game by putting it on cart, it would of had to have been on the Bulky Drive...i've read interview with chap who had been converting Unreal to PS1, would have loved to have seen just how comprimised that was, i know more on that subject, but time not quite right to go into that.

 

:-)

[+CyranoJ]

Nintendo DS, why not the Jag?!

 

 

Oh God, not again...

 

256 × 192 pixels Two ARM processors:

• 32 bit ARM946E-Smain CPU; 67 MHz clock speed. Processes gameplay mechanisms and video rendering
• 32 bit ARM7TDMI coprocessor; 33 MHz clock speed. Processes sound output, Wi-Fi support and takes on second-processor duties in Game Boy Advance mode

4 MB

 

Smaller screen, two MUCH faster CPUs, more RAM.

 

QuakeJag would be a slideshow.

[Gregory DG]

Oh God, not again...

 

QuakeJag would be a slideshow.

 

Haha, well, I wasn't really meaning to port it like the DS version. I meant, "The DS has a version, the Jag should too!" Meaning someone could create a version that would work.

 

Even if it were Gouraud shaded instead of textured and lower poly counts it would be a worthwhile endeavor.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Gregory DG

[JagChris]

QuakeJag would be a slideshow.

 

My god man! You just gotta learn how to use the Blitter! From Scato:

 

 

 

Our polygon engine uses the blitter in some strange ways that make it about the fastest rendering engine anyone ever wrote. Heck, we beat on the Jaguar so hard that we had to put breaks in the screen video objects to give the DSP cycles to play the audio.

Edited November 29, 2014 by JagChris

[Shamus]

Bleh. More bluster with absolutely nothing to back it up. Color me surprised.

[JagChris]

Bleh. More bluster with absolutely nothing to back it up. Color me surprised.

 

That wasn't for you. That was meant for CJ. I'm flippin him crap for the JS3 comment.

 

POKIN AT THE BEAR!

[+CyranoJ]

Anything from Scato can be taken with a pinch of shit.

[JagChris]

Bleh. More bluster with absolutely nothing to back it up. Color me surprised.

 

Well when someone here matches what they have done and then shows they used nothing unusual to do it with then I guess that statement would be true.

[Zerosquare]

Well when you match what CJ has released on the Jag then I guess we may start taking your opinion seriously.

[JagChris]

Well when you match what CJ has released on the Jag then I guess we may start taking your opinion seriously.

 

I'm sorry this topic always makes you guys so defensive. However my opinion isn't what matters. It's the opinion of others out there looking in and matching who has done what against who has done what.

 

It's obvious now, though my opinion doesn't matter that IMO T-bird had the Doom sources far before it was released to the community in general. And he was rather dishonest about it and a bit hypocritical. This IMO is obvious now looking back on old threads. He was rallying in a few posts against those who had it(I'm presuming Carl) and weren't sharing it with the community. Though it can never be proven.

 

However I don't remember anyone ever proving them wrong from a technical standpoint on anything despite protests that what Scatologic says should be taken with a grain of salt. They claim they use a real time ray-tracer inside the Jaguar to do I think the select screen with the translucent marbles? Maybe if someone matched that and proved you don't need a real time ray-tracer to do it with. That might shed some doubt on other things.

Edited November 29, 2014 by JagChris

[Zerosquare]

However I don't remember anyone ever proving them wrong from a technical standpoint on anything despite protests that what Scatologic says should be taken with a grain of salt.

Maybe that's because they almost never proved anything technical themselves.

 

They spent their time bragging about their self-assessed "world-best" stuff, adding ™ after every other word, and petting their ego. But they've never given any actual technical info, released any source, or even let anyone take a close look at what they released ("if you even look at the BS cart funny, I'll call my army of lawyers to sue you for blah blah blah..."), while dissing all other Jag developers constantly until conversations descended into ad-hominem attacks fests.

 

So what is left?

- A game that's decent, but not something that's technically exceptional, despite what they claim (several examples of more technically impressive games on far less powerful machines have been posted before).

- Individuals that have shown time and again to lie and be out of touch with reality.

 

Why should we care about what they say?

[JagChris]

Maybe that's because they almost never proved anything technical themselves.

 

Battlesphere still looked more technically advanced than what was shown in those videos.

 

 

 

- Individuals that have shown time and again to lie and be out of touch with reality.

 

Besides my assertion that T-bird had the Doom sources and would not share them, which is one instance and can't be proven can you cite other examples of this 'time and again' statement? I don't remember this ever happening.

[Zerosquare]

Battlesphere still looked more technically advanced than what was shown in those videos.

Your opinion. People who actually have programming experience don't agree with you.

 

Besides my assertion that T-bird had the Doom sources and would not share them, which is one instance and can't be proven can you cite other examples of this 'time and again' statement? I don't remember this ever happening.

Then you haven't been paying attention.

 

Just one example: claiming all copies of BS had been sold, that they've donated all the profits to charity and that they hate people who make money by reselling BS on eBay... while they were doing that very thing themselves using a shill account ("captainawesome").

[JagChris]

Really? I realize its the whole Reboot/Jagware scene does. There are those with programming experience who agree with me. Like you need programming experience anyway to realize and see things that are more technically advanced.

 

 

 

Just one example: claiming all copies of BS had been sold, that they've donated all the profits to charity and that they hate people who make money by reselling BS on eBay... while they were doing that very thing themselves using a shill account ("captainawesome").

 

And yes I've been paying plenty of attention. CaptainAwsome is not a shill account. It's Thunderbirds account. And he has always been open about that. Everyone knows that. It's their game they can resell it if they want. Who wouldn't be mad about people making undeserved money off of their work. Nice try but incorrect.

 

Even if the above was accurate which it isn't it's one instance and not 'time and again'. Can you give other examples?

Edited November 29, 2014 by JagChris

[Zerosquare]

Yeah, sure. Claiming you no longer sell something and that you didn't make money of it, while you're actively selling for profit using an account that doesn't mention your true identity, is not the sign you're a liar and an hypocrite. Not at all. If you want to play this game, I'm no longer interested in this discussion.

 

Oh, and keep posting your programming "advice", using your knowledge based entirely on quotes from dubious sources and random guesses. It's quite entertaining, like watching those people who think they know better than doctors, because "they've watched lots of medical TV shows".

[Lost Dragon]

Right...i paid good money to have the Edge scan put on M.stick, High Voltage was kind enough to put it up on here etc and this was so others could enjoy the article.The other hope of mine was it might lead likes of myself and SD32 etc to this 'mythical' interview with Carmac, where he talked about coding started on Jaguar Quake, as that would give a degree of credibility to Ultimate Future Games 30% complete claim.

No such interview has been linked to, nor can anyone seem to suggest where i might find it.So...i put time in, 'interviewed Dave Taylor' got some great insights on what he thought of the Jaguar hardware (vile) and how I'D's games had fared on Jaguar at retail (couple hundred thousand units tops).

Basically, i'd prefer this thread to stay on topic, rather than getting side tracked.

So, can anyone even suggest where i might find Carmack talking about Jaguar Quake? please...

Ta.

:-)