iD Software John Carmack interview UK Edge magazine by Lost Dragon

[JagChris]

Yeah, sure. Claiming you no longer sell something and that you didn't make money of it, while you're actively selling for profit using an account that doesn't mention your true identity, is not the sign you're a liar and an hypocrite. Not at all. If you want to play this game, I'm no longer interested in this discussion.

 

Oh, and keep posting your programming "advice", using your knowledge based entirely on quotes from dubious sources and random guesses. It's quite entertaining, like watching those people who think they know better than doctors, because "they've watched lots of medical TV shows".

 

 

It's not my programming knowledge I'm posting. It's others.If other talented programmer who are not here to represent themselves have a different viewpoint there is no harm in posting it. It might jog someone else's thinking.

 

However I am really interested in where Scato has been proven incorrect. Especially from a technical standpoint. Like I said I already believe he was a hypocrite about the Doom source thing. If you find this proof I am very interested in it. Start a new thread or PM me with this. Other than that you have a good day ZeroSquare!

 

Back on topic. I am also interested in this elusive John Carmack quote. Like I said I don't believe it exists either. I've never seen it.

Edited November 29, 2014 by JagChris

[Lost Dragon]

It'd be fantastic to 'find' any interview (either online or in some publication of past..) where Carmack even briefly talks about how feasable from a technical and commercial, point of view Jaguar Quake was, but by god have i searched and i cannot find it in UK publications.

 

Looking into 'Lost games' has become rather a hobby of mine, so i've fingers crossed someone still can step forward and say point your browser HERE and the community would be 'enlightened', but based on what's out there so far, i personally think someone saw Carmack talking about how, had he coded Doom differently on Jaguar, it'd run faster, higher resolution, better lighting etc, then in same interview talks about PC Quake, human error creeps in, it's posted up as Carmack talking about Jaguar Quake...someone else reads it, it's then re-posted by them in another thread/on other forums when subject is brought up...bingo, it's suddenly become 'fact'.

[Lost Dragon]

And...

I will say THIS:

As a subscriber (still) to Edge and one who was a subscriber to Retrogamer Magazine when they've had contact with/input from Carmac, given the amount of myth surrounding Jaguar Quake to this very day, was it really asking too much of either bloody publication to put the question of it, to him (Edge alone interviewed him a good few times now).

Whole situation could have been cleared up years ago,Edge, talking to Jez San cleared up the entire Argonaught developing for Jaguar issue and question was'nt even based on the Jaguar :-)

This is why i lost faith in mainstream press, started interviewing (well, such as it is) people myself, i never saw the questions i thought needed asking, being asked.

[+CyranoJ]

Battlesphere is so full of 68000 code it would be hard not to make a faster version by using the GPU more. If you want proof of that, dig out a disassembler. Even the 68000 is pretty poorly coded.

 

Also, the 'it gets smarter the more you link up' statement - UTTER BULLSHIT.

 

It might get more complex, but there is no way the routines 'get smarter'

 

The guys are full of shit on most counts.

 

If by 'others' you mean 'Gorf' then LOL. A guy so 'talented' he used the Atari supplied render routines and bitched and moaned over a decade away waiting for someone else to write him a render routine because he couldn't do it himself. A guy who wanted extra hardware on the 8-bit machines because he couldn't get a Phoenix clone running fast enough... A guy caught red-handed claiming he wrote music written by someone else. Double face-palm LOL.

 

Sure, it's a nice game, but when you can do faster, smoother, better graphics on a much slower system, it's hardly optimal. If you can't see that as 'proof' then what you've been drinking has too much proof for you to handle.

Edited November 29, 2014 by CyranoJ

[JagChris]

Battlesphere is so full of 68000 code it would be hard not to make a faster version by using the GPU more. If you want proof of that, dig out a disassembler.

 

Also, the 'it gets smarter the more you link up' statement - UTTER BULLSHIT.

 

Where did they say 'smarter'? I believe they said it runs better because the workload is shared among the connected Jaguars. Where did they say smarter?

 

This is interesting. We all know that statement would be nonsense. Please post that link where it says it gets smarter? This would be utter and complete bullshit.

Edited November 29, 2014 by JagChris

[+CyranoJ]

 

Where did they say 'smarter'? I believe they said it runs better because the workload is shared among the connected Jaguars. Where did they say smarter?

 

 

And that is utter bullshit too. There isn't enough b/w on the link for anything like that to happen. It doesn't become a hive mind when it's hooked up.

[JagChris]

Battlesphere is so full of 68000 code it would be hard not to make a faster version by using the GPU more. If you want proof of that, dig out a disassembler. Even the 68000 is pretty poorly coded.

 

 

 

They have always said they used a lot of 68000 code in it. And claimed they could get double the performance or better with a complete rewrite.

[JagChris]

 

And that is utter bullshit too. There isn't enough b/w on the link for anything like that to happen. It doesn't become a hive mind when it's hooked up.

 

I thought about that too. But we need the actual quotes. I may be remembering wrong.

[+CyranoJ]

So you refuse to accept that something actually displayed and proven to be running faster on slower hardware is better than Battlesphere, but you are quite happy to believe unproven claims made by the authors that they could make a faster engine.

 

I see how you process 'logic' now. I'm not going to discuss this further with you, there is no point.

[Lost Dragon]

Last ditch attempt before thread is in danger of being locked:

Guys, if you want to chat about Battlesphere etc, could we like not use another thread, please?.

I'm not saying it does'nt make for a decent 'debate', i just rather don't think this is the thread for it.

Back on topic:

Given i don't 'do' Twitter or Facebook, is Carmac on both/either? and if so (and this sounds so obvious i cannot believe i'm typing it) has no-one ever 'contacted' Carmack and put the question of Jaguar Quake to him?.

I just find it odd it's a subject that keeps cropping up, yet press never asked him, so i'm wondering IF the Atari community ever has?.

[Shamus]

I seriously doubt anyone has asked him; it would be worth a shot though.

 

And serious kudos to you for going after primary sources yourself, that's something that's almost unheard in this day and age. Mad, mad props.

[Lost Dragon]

:-) My latest interview has come in, i'd love to say just WHO it is, but it's been forwarded to someone who wants it as an exclusive (new source for me as well), but when i get responses from person i interviewed like this:

 

'... my most sincere apologies. I let this drop. You put those great questions together and I left you hanging for months......Any more questions please do get in touch. If you are ever in London email me and I'll buy you a beer.'

 

I'm just floored....

 

The sheer amount of kindness the people i've humbly 'interviewed' have shown in giving up of their time and the insights they offer, after so many years, is just humbling to me.

 

He has some Atari related info (yes, i asked about Lynx, Jaguar and Panther) which i'll share on here, some Lost game info on MD games, which is going to Unseen 64, but 95% of the interview content is under wraps, i'll 'plug' once i knmow when it's going out.

[Lost Dragon]

I posted this in my Domark/Lynx thread, but it's just as relevant here.(Basically i asked my source if he could let me know if any details of Lost Lynx/Jaguar titles come his way) he said:

 

'No probs. I meet up with those guys still occasionally and I can ask who recalls concrete particulars of cancelled projects. It's very common in the business probably still now, I reckon 50% of games that officially start work get cancelled.'

 

 

That would explain why there are so many Lost Games still to find firm facts on i guess.

[Lost Dragon]

:-)

 

Well, i made an attempt to 'reach out to Carmac', knowing from the start it was doomed (no pun intended) to failure, had response from H.R person i guess...John is not avaiable for interviews at this time, deepest regrets etc etc....

 

 

Still, nothing ventured......

[Atari_Owl]

Hi,

 

Well it's a nice idea - I might do something along those lines for engine programming, although so many techniques covered in those threads have since lost value for all but developing on retro hardware (maybe not quite, but close).

 

Still it's good practice to crunch these problems, for working in other areas - there may be some middle ground that has some interest value.

 

 

Had no idea Doug was here, it shows what can happen when one is not paying attention.

 

Its great to see you here.

 

People, seriously, this guy is amazing.

[JagChris]

 

 

Had no idea Doug was here, it shows what can happen when one is not paying attention.

 

Its great to see you here.

 

People, seriously, this guy is amazing.

 

You're not kidding. Here's his latest.

 

[sd32]

That looks awesome!, gotta love the untextured look. Actually i once had a dream about seeing Quake 1 running in the Jaguar, and this is similar to how it looked .

[high voltage]

Here is some more:

 

From Maximum Magazine, issue 5/April 1996 I.D being interviewed about Quake.


They said whilst target hardware was still a 486 DX/2 66 MHz Pc with 8
Meg of Ram and NON-3D video card, it'd run, but you'd need to downsize
the screen a bit and although it was running very fast, they were
working on increasing the speed.


PS1 version was asked about, along with possibility of supporting
dial-up with that version (odd as PS1 never had a dial up modem, did
it?).I.D said:


'We would like to but we cannot make promises this early'


They were then asked IF PS1 version would be 'as cool' as the PC
version, I.D said:

'Well no.But it will be worth playing and deathmatch would be
possible'.They also hoped to get PS1 version released within a
reasonable time of the PC version.

[Lost Dragon]

Big thanks to High Voltage for putting the above info up on my behalf yesterday, since then i found the interview with Lobotomy proving PS1 Quake was done, better than Saturn etc:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/234265-quake-was-converted-to-playstation-just-never-published/

So (and this will sound arrogant) after finding this Lobotomy interview, the Maximum one, doing interview myself with I.D's Dave Taylor, i'm still left wondering if this fabled interview with Carmack claiming Quake was running on Jaguar even exists or is'nt just confusion on a part of 1 or more people.

It cannot be that hard to find, can it?.

[Lost Dragon]

Anywho, here's David Doak (Free Radical) talking about PS1 Quake 2:

 

'...The port was very good-but that's also part of the problem.Almost everyone who's interested in Quake II had played it on their PC's before the Playstation.By the time the Playstation version came along it was old news'

 

This i guess would of been a similar issue, had Jaguar Quake ever appeared.

 

Here's Lobotomy's Paul Lange on why they used a moddified version of the Exhumed Engine for Duke Nukem and Quake on Saturn:

 

Duke's:To accommodate the wide open spaces evident in the game.

 

Quake:To Engineer the complexity of the architecture of I.D's classic.

 

'Our engine works differently than the PC Quake Engine does.Ours is tailored to what the Saturn does best'.

[high voltage]

Today at 4:28 PM

From Edge April 1997 Lobotomy talking about how the MODIFIED Exhumed
Engine was being used on BOTH Duke Nukem 3D and Quake on Saturn and
why...


'Duke used it to accomadtae the wide open spaces evident in the game
world and Quake to engineer the complex architecture of I.D's
classic'.

Paul Lange said 'Our engine works differently than the PC Quake
Engine does.Ours is tailored to what the Saturn does best and in that
respect it'll be most adequate' (for the conversion of Quake to the
Saturn.


So again proof of why 7 developers tried and failed to port PC Quake
code to PS1.

Ezra: I did do some work on the PlayStation later. After Saturn Quake
was done I did a quick port of it to the PlayStation. Lobotomy was
really hurting for cash at that point, and I hoped that we could get
some publisher to sign us up to do PlayStation Quake. But for some
reason, we couldn’t get anyone to go for it. Lobotomy folded soon
after.Ezra: The most striking thing about the PlayStation port was how
much faster the graphics hardware was than the Saturn. The initial
scene after you just start the game is pretty complex. I think it ran
20 fps on the Saturn version. On the PlayStation it ran 30, but the
actual rendering part could have been going 60 if the CPU calculations
weren’t holding it up. I don’t know if it would have ever been
possible to get it to really run 60, but at least there was the
potential.


http://www.gareth-jones.co.uk/2010/08/07/interview-ezra-dreisbach/

So a Jaguar version would have looked awesome.

Edited January 25, 2015 by high voltage

[JagChris]

Coincidentally I just bought Saturn Quake at the Portland Retro Gaming Expo Swap meet.

 

It's a beautiful version with some animated textures. I am really impressed with it.

Edited January 25, 2015 by JagChris

[Lost Dragon]

Early/Preview version looked even better :-).Guess Lobotomy had to make compromises to keep speed up in final version.

[NeoGeoNinja]

@Lost Dragon & High Voltage:

 

Hope you don't mind, but I linked the Gareth Jones interview with Ezra over at the UK SEGA Saturn forums (http://segasaturngroup.proboards.com/thread/8493/ezra-dreisbach-interview-2010-before)

 

There's a bit of a myth concerning the existence or (even) the ability to have outputted a version of Quake for PS1 at that time. Simultaneously happy and sad to hear that it existed but was never officially backed/received publisher interest...

[Lost Dragon]

More places that get to read it, the better.Think a lot of the MYTH, might have come from UK Press at the time.Lot of the Playstation press reporting SHOCK! 7 developers try and fail to get PC Quake running on Playstation, it can't be done type stories and of course Sega press taking great delight in fact not only did Saturn have better versions of Hexen and Duke Nukem 3D (at expense of worse version of Doom) but it had Quake at a time when PS1 was'nt going to get it.

 

That in turn did'nt do much for Saturns long term future and PS1 ended up with Shadow Master, Life Force Tenka and then Quake II, showing it was'nt a hardware issue (plus Unreal was being converted).

 

but yeah please link as/where it's best suited.

 

I've passed info onto GTW/Unseen64 etc myself.