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Rom Variants Auto Racing etc.


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#51 intvnut ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:10 PM

Holy cats.  The Real Steering version has two kinds of grass.  Normal grass doesn't slow down the car, but deeper grass does.  This is missing from the Intuitive/Directional version.

 

You can see where the deeper grass is if you bring it up in jzIntv's debugger.  Run until you get the playfield on screen.  Hit F4, and then type these commands:

p3938 AA
p3939 55
p393A AA
p393B 55
p393C AA
p393D 55
p393E AA
p393F 55
r

You'll see most, but not all of the grass highlights in a checkerboard pattern.  This is 'tall grass', and it'll slow your car down.  Try driving on these areas in the "Intuitive/Directional" version, and you'll see your car doesn't slow down.  At least, that appears to be the case.

 

two_types_of_grass.gif



#52 freewheel OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:17 PM

OK, this is getting weird. How the hell are all of these differences not already documented? People play games to the point of noticing when a frigging pixel is off. Different sounds? Different grass? Wow.

 

Is Auto Racing just that bad that no one's ever played it enough to pick this stuff up? Or is "intuitive" so freaking rare that most of us have only ever played the one version?



#53 intvnut ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:25 PM

OK, this is getting weird. How the hell are all of these differences not already documented? People play games to the point of noticing when a frigging pixel is off. Different sounds? Different grass? Wow.

 

Is Auto Racing just that bad that no one's ever played it enough to pick this stuff up? Or is "intuitive" so freaking rare that most of us have only ever played the one version?

 

I imagine three factors:

  • Intuitive/Directional mode is total balls to play in an emulator unless you have it somehow interfaced to an actual controller.  So, I venture nobody does much of that.
  • Since none of us expected there would be these differences, nobody's bothered to A/B test them at this level of detail.
  • Most of us probably just remember the variant we grew up with, and it sounds like most of us grew up with the 'Realistic' version... which also seems to be the better version.

Edited by intvnut, Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:26 PM.


#54 mr_me OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:40 PM

I haven't been able to find the intuitive/directional version in rom/bin/int file format anywhere, so most people that sourced a ROM file or bought a Mattel cartridge have the realistic version.  I think Auto Racing (realistic) is a great game, I still like playing it.  The two player game is a waste of time.   I wish you could select the number of laps.  I suppose showing lap number and last lap time (while playing) would be too much to expect from the Intellivision.



#55 1980gamer OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:53 PM

I haven't been able to find the intuitive/directional version in rom/bin/int file format anywhere, so most people that sourced a ROM file or bought a Mattel cartridge have the realistic version.  I think Auto Racing (realistic) is a great game, I still like playing it.  The two player game is a waste of time.   I wish you could select the number of laps.  I suppose showing lap number and last lap time (while playing) would be too much to expect from the Intellivision.

 

You can select the number of laps.... It is just in MotoCross!

You can select steering and even create tracks.

 

And the stupid AHEAD is handled with individual clocks.  I like this, I wish they had this in Auto Racing.

 

I like Auto Racing, but head to head was more of a demolition derby at our house.

 

Faster and Furious'er Super Pro Auto Racing



#56 intvnut ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:54 PM

I haven't been able to find the intuitive/directional version in rom/bin/int file format anywhere, so most people that sourced a ROM file or bought a Mattel cartridge have the realistic version.  I think Auto Racing (realistic) is a great game, I still like playing it.  The two player game is a waste of time.   I wish you could select the number of laps.  I suppose showing lap number and last lap time (while playing) would be too much to expect from the Intellivision.

 

I believe my ROMs for both came from Intellivision Lives. I need to check. 

 

EDIT: Ok, I just checked. It appears I dumped these two variants sometime in 1999.   Even that, I'm not sure, because all that survived from that session was two separate .CFG files.  The next oldest copy I have has a timestamp of 2005.  If I dumped it myself, that means I likely have an intuitive/directional steering copy bubbling around here somewhere, but who knows where.  The version on Intellivision Lives! is the real steering version.

 

Selectable number of laps is easy to add, actually. Displaying the lap count and elapsed time is difficult given the way Intellivision scrolling works. Maybe you could embed billboards in the track in place of trees in a few strategic places. It would scroll with the field, like the status in Mission X or Super Cobra.


Edited by intvnut, Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:50 PM.


#57 1980gamer OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:49 PM

intvnut,

Have you looked at motocross?

Just out of curiosity... Did this reuse auto racing code?

 

I was kind of joking SP Auto Racing...

 

But with the new cart technologies, we could have build and save tracks.  Heck, maybe even share tracks with the multi-cart  ( extract / share ) could be used with high score saving/sharing too.

Am I dreaming or did I read that auto racing updates every 1/20th of a second.

So in theory, not using the exec, this game could be nearly 3X faster?

 

Hmmm, wifi SD cards exist.... could my intellivision be "on-line" via a multi-cart with sd-wifi sharing my scores/times, custom courses etc.???

How about on-line play?  maybe slower twitch games, chess, checkers etc.   ( just as I think about it... this is not likely :(  but it is fun to dream )



#58 intvnut ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:54 PM

intvnut,

Have you looked at motocross?

Just out of curiosity... Did this reuse auto racing code?

 

I haven't.  I imagine it's close to a complete rewrite.

 

 

But with the new cart technologies, we could have build and save tracks.  Heck, maybe even share tracks with the multi-cart  ( extract / share ) could be used with high score saving/sharing too.

Am I dreaming or did I read that auto racing updates every 1/20th of a second.

So in theory, not using the exec, this game could be nearly 3X faster?

 

Yep.  20Hz!  It could be so much smoother...  I imagine Motocross, coming so much later, doesn't lean on the EXEC nearly as much.

 

 

Hmmm, wifi SD cards exist.... could my intellivision be "on-line" via a multi-cart with sd-wifi sharing my scores/times, custom courses etc.???

How about on-line play?  maybe slower twitch games, chess, checkers etc.   ( just as I think about it... this is not likely :(  but it is fun to dream )

 

If you don't mind being near a computer (laptop?), LTO Flash! has high speed USB serial that it exposes to the Intellivision.  A custom game patch could ferry data over that link.

 

Given that the games weren't designed for network lag, online play would only really work well for low-response-time games.  But, it's possible...



#59 intvsteve OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:00 PM

 

 

I imagine three factors:

  • Intuitive/Directional mode is total balls to play in an emulator unless you have it somehow interfaced to an actual controller.  So, I venture nobody does much of that.
  • Since none of us expected there would be these differences, nobody's bothered to A/B test them at this level of detail.
  • Most of us probably just remember the variant we grew up with, and it sounds like most of us grew up with the 'Realistic' version... which also seems to be the better version.

 

DING DING DING DING!!! We have a winner! :D



#60 1980gamer OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:12 PM

Has anyone ever got this to work?

I have tried it with a few carts, but I think it is a load of ....

 

http://www.gamewinne.../AutoRacing.htm



#61 intvnut ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:24 PM

Has anyone ever got this to work?

I have tried it with a few carts, but I think it is a load of ....

 

http://www.gamewinne.../AutoRacing.htm

 

The drag strip is real, as I recall.

 

I have not encountered a ROM dump that has the basketball minigame.  All the ROM dumps I've seen are 8K bytes (4K decles).



#62 1980gamer OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:43 PM

Yeah, the drag strip is real, along with some other things that can be found.  A random Curve etc.

 

The Basketball Mini game is what I was looking for.

I think this is a myth/hoax.

 

Will the LTO Flash allow Hi Score sharing ( new games )  existing games do not have a save score obviously.

This would make hi-score competitions easy to verify etc.

 

I stink at most games at this point, but I still have the knack for a few.



#63 First Spear OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:59 PM



Joe Z, you take the prize with the most gangsta Intv post of the year. The prize was formerly held by you in the programming sub forum. :)


 
I'll probably end up putting my reverse engineering work up in a Google Doc or something. Right now I have everything in a spreadsheet, with side-by-side disassembly.  I'm attempting to line up code between the two versions to show additions, deletions and changes, similar to, say, tkdiff.
 
If others want to drive the reverse engineering further, I could offer write access to the Google Doc as needed.



#64 intvnut ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:11 PM

Joe Z, you take the prize with the most gangsta Intv post of the year. The prize was formerly held by you in the programming sub forum. :)

 

:thumbsup: :cool: :thumbsup:

 

 

Will the LTO Flash allow Hi Score sharing ( new games )  existing games do not have a save score obviously.

This would make hi-score competitions easy to verify etc.

 

It has support for saving high scores.  It fully supports the "JLP flash save area" for each game.  IntyBASIC also supports that now, so new IntyBASIC games can save high scores and other stuff on LTO Flash!.

 

As for sharing them, what do you have in mind?

 

 

And on a separate note, I've let the 'Real Steering' version loop in an open window over here.  I've highlighed all the 'tall grass' with a checkerboard pattern.  It's strangely mesmerizing.

 

autorace.gif

(click to play)


Edited by intvnut, Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:13 PM.


#65 1980gamer OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:42 PM

"It has support for saving high scores.  It fully supports the "JLP flash save area" for each game.  IntyBASIC also supports that now, so new IntyBASIC games can save high scores and other stuff on LTO Flash!.

 

As for sharing them, what do you have in mind?"

 

I was thinking:  an auto SYNC.

Have the LTO Flash send all new high scores / best times / highest level info for each compatible game to a central location.

Each cart is registered correct?  We could then know who has the high scores based on cart at least.

For me, I am the only person playing Intellivision in my house. :( 

This should be an opt-in of course.

 

Writing the high score table back to the cart should be easy enough.

 

Oh, The LTO Flash uses built-in memory, not an sd card.  So the easy wifi is out.

 

I get so confused!  LOL  I have a cc3, that is microSD.  I don't know if that form factor supports wifi either?  But usb is easy enough to deal with.

 

Maybe some of the promise of the intellivision III could come to life in new games being developed.  "Tank battle" over a modem would be a typical application.

Something to that effect.....

 

Way past bedtime!  It's is nice getting all of this cool info!

 

In the high score section... a few years back, I documented some short-cuts in auto racing.  ( the intuitive version would shake this up, with no slow grass that is. )

 

Good night.



#66 intvnut ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:44 PM

For fun... with the "Real Steering" version of the ROM, if you put this in a '.cfg' next to it, and run "bin2rom" on it, you'll get a version of the ROM that'll let you select 1 to 9 laps.

 

EDIT:  I've updated the patch slightly, as I missed one place where number of laps was compared.

 

.

[macro]
@p 507C 0200
@p 507D 0F82
@p 5084 0204
@p 5085 0F99
@p 5092 02BC
@p 5093 000D
@p 50A6 02BC
@p 50A7 028D
@p 50DB 02FB
@p 50DC 0296
@p 50EC 02FB
@p 50ED 0296
@p 529C 0342
@p 529D 01EF
@p 515D 0342
@p 515E 01EF
@p 6000 0093
@p 6001 03BA
@p 6002 0010
@p 6003 022C
@p 6004 0F84
@p 6005 03BB
@p 6006 0040
@p 6007 0224
@p 6008 0F4D
@p 6009 0378
@p 600A 000A
@p 600B 0204
@p 600C 000E
@p 600D 0378
@p 600E 0009
@p 600F 0221
@p 6010 0F11
@p 6011 0008
@p 6012 0240
@p 6013 01EF
@p 6014 004C
@p 6015 0048
@p 6016 02F8
@p 6017 0087
@p 6018 0240
@p 6019 0260
@p 601A 02B7
@p 601B 02BA
@p 601C 0260
@p 601D 0220
@p 601E 0F8C
@p 601F 0280
@p 6020 0224
@p 6021 03F8
@p 6022 0005
@p 6023 0240
@p 6024 0224
@p 6025 02BC
@p 6026 0251
@p 6027 02BB
@p 6028 0007
@p 6029 0004
@p 602A 0118
@p 602B 007B
@p 602C 0023
@p 602D 0020
@p 602E 004F
@p 602F 0046
@p 6030 0020
@p 6031 004C
@p 6032 0041
@p 6033 0050
@p 6034 0053
@p 6035 003A
@p 6036 0000
@p 6037 02B8
@p 6038 0041
@p 6039 0240
@p 603A 015D
@p 603B 02B7


Edited by intvnut, Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:58 PM.


#67 pimpmaul69 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:21 AM

 
For fun... with the "Real Steering" version of the ROM, if you put this in a '.cfg' next to it, and run "bin2rom" on it, you'll get a version of the ROM that'll let you select 1 to 9 laps.
 
EDIT:  I've updated the patch slightly, as I missed one place where number of laps was compared.
 
.

[macro]
@p 507C 0200
@p 507D 0F82
@p 5084 0204
@p 5085 0F99
@p 5092 02BC
@p 5093 000D
@p 50A6 02BC
@p 50A7 028D
@p 50DB 02FB
@p 50DC 0296
@p 50EC 02FB
@p 50ED 0296
@p 529C 0342
@p 529D 01EF
@p 515D 0342
@p 515E 01EF
@p 6000 0093
@p 6001 03BA
@p 6002 0010
@p 6003 022C
@p 6004 0F84
@p 6005 03BB
@p 6006 0040
@p 6007 0224
@p 6008 0F4D
@p 6009 0378
@p 600A 000A
@p 600B 0204
@p 600C 000E
@p 600D 0378
@p 600E 0009
@p 600F 0221
@p 6010 0F11
@p 6011 0008
@p 6012 0240
@p 6013 01EF
@p 6014 004C
@p 6015 0048
@p 6016 02F8
@p 6017 0087
@p 6018 0240
@p 6019 0260
@p 601A 02B7
@p 601B 02BA
@p 601C 0260
@p 601D 0220
@p 601E 0F8C
@p 601F 0280
@p 6020 0224
@p 6021 03F8
@p 6022 0005
@p 6023 0240
@p 6024 0224
@p 6025 02BC
@p 6026 0251
@p 6027 02BB
@p 6028 0007
@p 6029 0004
@p 602A 0118
@p 602B 007B
@p 602C 0023
@p 602D 0020
@p 602E 004F
@p 602F 0046
@p 6030 0020
@p 6031 004C
@p 6032 0041
@p 6033 0050
@p 6034 0053
@p 6035 003A
@p 6036 0000
@p 6037 02B8
@p 6038 0041
@p 6039 0240
@p 603A 015D
@p 603B 02B7
i tried this and there was no change. it still only let you choose course then color. I did not try as a bin/cfg. Only converted to rom as specified

Edited by pimpmaul69, Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:32 AM.


#68 1980gamer OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:35 AM

Can you post the patched rom?   I promise I own it!

 

I have 4 flashbacks, several carts, playstation cd, intellivision lives and intellivision lives 1.5 (I think it was called), Rocks didn't have it if I recall properly?

 

I have never come across the game cube version, but if I did..... I'd own that too.  LOL

 

Thanks you!

 

Will the LTO Flash play patched Roms or is this something only emulators can do?  ( could open up a world of hacking )   not for me most likely... But others perhaps.



#69 mr_me OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:51 AM

Someone posted that "steering type" was an option as you start Auto Racing; maybe they were thinking of Motocross.  Motocross also has the running clock (seconds, not minutes) visible and scrolling at every lap but no lap number.  The jumping in Motocross is interesting, but I don't find it being a fun game.  Maybe that's because I never played it as a kid.  

 

Would it have been possible to store and display all lap times at every crash and at finish back in 1979 (as well as showing lap number and clock scrolling at lap location)?  Number of laps would then be not so important because you could just crash the car when you wanted to stop.



#70 intvnut ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:05 AM

i tried this and there was no change. it still only let you choose course then color. I did not try as a bin/cfg. Only converted to rom as specified

 

You need to put the Auto Racing bin file next to it, and then run the resulting ROM.  Here's a clunky method that should be fairly foolproof:

  • Copy the Auto Racing .bin file to "fred.bin"
  • Copy the .cfg file I posted to "fred.cfg"
  • Run bin2rom, generating a "fred.rom".  The result should be 8761 bytes large.
  • Rename "fred.rom" to "barney.rom"
  • Run "barney.rom"

The only reason for the 'rename' step at the end is to ensure there's no ambiguity between "fred.bin" and "fred.rom" when you try to run it.

 

I won't publicly post ROMs, sorry.

 

Someone posted that "steering type" was an option as you start Auto Racing

 

The only way I've seen it 'selectable' is with the hidden cheat.  Press 1+4+9 or 1+6+9 on a controller across reset to set that controller to 'real steering.'

 

 

Would it have been possible to store and display all lap times at every crash and at finish back in 1979 (as well as showing lap number and clock scrolling at lap location)?  Number of laps would then be not so important because you could just crash the car when you wanted to stop.

 

I believe there was enough RAM to store this information for a handful of laps.  Auto Racing's ROM was limited to 4K, and was pretty full.  The extra code to display this information would probably have put it over its 4K budget.  Indeed, the patch I made added extra ROM outside 4K to add the "# of laps" selection.

 

 

Will the LTO Flash play patched Roms or is this something only emulators can do?  ( could open up a world of hacking )   not for me most likely... But others perhaps.

 

It will be able to!  I actually play-tested the patch above on a real Intellivision with LTO Flash! last night.  :-)

 

With the GUI, you'll be able to cut out some of the steps.  If you have the ROM in 'bin' format, you can make a copy of the .bin, and put the patch .cfg next to it, and add that to your LTO Flash! cart.  When it gets pulled in the patch will get applied.


Edited by intvnut, Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:17 AM.


#71 pimpmaul69 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:06 AM

 

You need to put the Auto Racing bin file next to it, and then run the resulting ROM.  Here's a clunky method that should be fairly foolproof:

  • Copy the Auto Racing .bin file to "fred.bin"
  • Copy the .cfg file I posted to "fred.cfg"
  • Run bin2rom, generating a "fred.rom".  The result should be 8761 bytes large.
  • Rename "fred.rom" to "barney.rom"
  • Run "barney.rom"

The only reason for the 'rename' step at the end is to ensure there's no ambiguity between "fred.bin" and "fred.rom" when you try to run it.

 

I won't publicly post ROMs, sorry.

 

 

The only way I've seen it 'selectable' is with the hidden cheat.  Press 1+4+9 or 1+6+9 on a controller across reset to set that controller to 'real steering.'

 

 

 

I believe there was enough RAM to store this information for a handful of laps.  Auto Racing's ROM was limited to 4K, and was pretty full.  The extra code to display this information would probably have put it over its 4K budget.  Indeed, the patch I made added extra ROM outside 4K to add the "# of laps" selection.

 

 

 

It will be able to!  I actually play-tested the patch above on a real Intellivision with LTO Flash! last night.  :-)

 

With the GUI, you'll be able to cut out some of the steps.  If you have the ROM in 'bin' format, you can make a copy of the .bin, and put the patch .cfg next to it, and add that to your LTO Flash! cart.  When it gets pulled in the patch will get applied.

i did run it like that as i have hundreds of times. just didnt work. with this code however, it is weird to see the bin+cfg crashes but the rom plays


Edited by pimpmaul69, Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:19 AM.


#72 intvnut ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:25 PM

i did run it like that as i have hundreds of times. just didnt work. with this code however, it is weird to see the bin+cfg crashes but the rom plays

 

Yeah, the bin+cfg will crash if you run it in jzIntv, because the 'pokes' are 'creating ROM' where there was none before.  bin2rom detects that (or, at least recent bin2rom; I've been at this so long I have no idea when I added that functionality), and invents some ROM to hold the patch.  jzIntv, OTOH, is more strict here, and interprets the pokes differently—closer to how the 'p' command in jzIntv's debugger works, actually.  (This isn't a coincidence.)

 

Thus, the patch may only work with the latest bin2rom. 

 

I really need to come up with a better way of delivering patches.  :-P


Edited by intvnut, Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:27 PM.


#73 pimpmaul69 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:00 PM

 
Yeah, the bin+cfg will crash if you run it in jzIntv, because the 'pokes' are 'creating ROM' where there was none before.  bin2rom detects that (or, at least recent bin2rom; I've been at this so long I have no idea when I added that functionality), and invents some ROM to hold the patch.  jzIntv, OTOH, is more strict here, and interprets the pokes differentlycloser to how the 'p' command in jzIntv's debugger works, actually.  (This isn't a coincidence.)
 
Thus, the patch may only work with the latest bin2rom. 
 
I really need to come up with a better way of delivering patches.  :-P

i wll try a newer bin2rom

EDIT: newer bin2 rom worked. Thank you.

Edited by pimpmaul69, Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:06 PM.


#74 pimpmaul69 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:18 PM

Is auto racing 2 player only? If not how do i play 1 player?

#75 intvnut ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:23 PM

Is auto racing 2 player only? If not how do i play 1 player?

 

Press enter on the other controller w/out selecting a car.

 

I say "other controller" because either left controller or right controller can "sit out" by pressing enter w/out selecting a car.  Note:  You have to select a car on the controller you're going to play with before you can bypass car selection on the other controller.

 

For example:

  • Select red car on right hand controller, press enter on right controller.
  • Press enter on left controller

Now you'll be playing red car w/ the right controller, and there's no car for the left controller.


Edited by intvnut, Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:25 PM.





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